PSN Games Won't Transfer to PS4

[Aiddon_v1legacy]

While no one here has any concrete statistics, clearly, I'd estimate that you *are* in the minority.

The book/music comparison is a weak one, because those don't take up much space, and themselves aren't media platforms, they're media itself.

A more apt comparison would be a music player, like an ipod. Generally, when a new ipod comes out, it can play all your old songs. You don't need to switch to your old ipod just to hear the songs you bought last year. It's the same concept. why should we have to clutter our TVs with all these plastic boxes to play old software? I only have so much shelf space, and I'll be damned if I have to wrench out my tv to rearrange wires every time I want to play Little Big Planet. I can probably deal with it this generation, but if the trend continues I won't be able to for the next.

It's a principal of convenience, something Sony's development team seems to have deemed not worth the cost, around the PS3's 2nd iteration.

Thing is even a Blu-ray player can play DVDs easy enough. If they were switching up to a different format it might be understandable (switching from cartridges to CD was HUGE in gaming), but nothing has changed. There is NO WAY they couldn't find a way to emulate stuff? Really? Even the Wii U has a Wii emulator.

 

[WhiteTigerShiro]

Not really going to be a problem since I will be buying a PS4 for PS4 games. Backwards comparability is a complete irrelevancy to me.

Yeah, and I'm buying a Wii-U for Wii-U games, but at least I can still play my Wii games while I wait for more good ones to come out. No backwards compatibility might not hurt in the long run (since anyone who wants a PS3 is going to buy one), but it's definitely gonna hurt for day one sales. Plenty of people who would have bought it day one are going to hold-off until there are more good games available. Having to go from a library of a dozen (or dozens of) games down to just one or two is kind of a big hit, and not everyone has the room that they can have both the PS3 and PS4 hooked-up at once.

 

[WhiteTigerShiro]

Okay, I know I'm not an IT expert by any stretch of the imagination, but surely if the PS4 is as incredibly powerful as Sony want us to believe, then why would it be "over stretching" the machine's processor to play older games? I mean, seriously, if the Wii-U can do it, why not the PS4?

And where does this leave certain next-gen titles like (if the rumours are to be believed about it being next-gen) Dragon Age 3, where you really need to import old PS3 save files to get the most out of the game?

Think of it this way: You basically have to program an entire computer... into your computer.

This won't be an issue for a higher-end computer, but since your computer needs to process itself AND another computer, it can mean that your computer can have a hard time running a game even when its specs should blow the game out of the water. Not to mention things like the other guy mentioned where the emulator might not work quite perfectly. As someone who played Daggerfall through DOSBox, I can tell you that it took a lot of tweaking to get running just right.

So with that in mind, it isn't hard to see why it might be difficult to run PS3 games on the PS4, since the PS4 will have to run itself AND the coding for and entire PS3 (or as much of it as they need to program in) for the game to work.

 

[Little Gray]

"Eventually, some PS3 titles will make the jump, but only ones that the PS4 can emulate without radically overstretching its processor."

This is worrying, considering there are already functional PC emulators out there for PS3, this means either PS4 is not very powerful or Sony is telling some major porkies

This is inexcusable considering the number of PSN games that are just emulations to PS3 you just need to emulate to PS4 instead.

Also, what kind of price are we paying for a game that will start with NO back catalogue, not even PSN games?!?!

Well since the PS4 is not backwards compatible it makes sense for PSN games to not work on it. All of those games were designed for the ps3. They wont just magically start working on the ps4 since it is basically a new format. Its the same reason why your ps3 games dont work on the 360.

Sure they could use an emulator but those are buggy as all hell and never work with every single game. They are also not going to just port every game on the psn over because the vast majority of those games are not theirs.

 

[Burst6]

While no one here has any concrete statistics, clearly, I'd estimate that you *are* in the minority.

The book/music comparison is a weak one, because those don't take up much space, and themselves aren't media platforms, they're media itself.

A more apt comparison would be a music player, like an ipod. Generally, when a new ipod comes out, it can play all your old songs. You don't need to switch to your old ipod just to hear the songs you bought last year. It's the same concept. why should we have to clutter our TVs with all these plastic boxes to play old software? I only have so much shelf space, and I'll be damned if I have to wrench out my tv to rearrange wires every time I want to play Little Big Planet. I can probably deal with it this generation, but if the trend continues I won't be able to for the next.

It's a principal of convenience, something Sony's development team seems to have deemed not worth the cost, around the PS3's 2nd iteration.

Thing is even a Blu-ray player can play DVDs easy enough. If they were switching up to a different format it might be understandable (switching from cartridges to CD was HUGE in gaming), but nothing has changed. There is NO WAY they couldn't find a way to emulate stuff? Really? Even the Wii U has a Wii emulator.

Actually massive things have changed. The basic way the new PS4 works is far different from the PS3. The PS3 tried some experimental new technology that was the reason why developers hated to code for it. The new ps4 uses a more standard system. The only way they could get ps3 emulation on the ps4 would be to put a ps3 cell processor in there and intergrate it into the system. Not only would that be more expensive for Sony to develop, but it would also drive up the cost of the console by a lot.

The other way would be to make a ps3 emulator inside the ps4, but considering high end PC's have a hard time running a ps3 emulator smoothly the ps4 wouldn't stand a chance. Nintendo has been very constant with their technology and they're a generation behind when looking at technological capabilities so they can do this easily. Not Sony.

I really don't think going through all of this trouble for a bit of convenience is worth it.

 

[JagermanXcell]

Yeah because I have a ton of money to spend on new games and another giant black box. Its a shame cause I really REALLY wanted backwards compatibility.
Oh well, I bet Sony really REALLY wanted me to buy their PS4... both our dreams will be crushed.

At least my little sister just got a WiiU. Now that THAT is how you do next gen. I literally started crying when the darn thing played my old copy of No More Heroes. Thanks Nintendo.

 

[Jamous]

Oh joy. More lost in the next 'great leap'. Some of the bullshit the industry throws out is just ridiculously irritating.

 

[Strazdas]

Different architecture does not allow easy transfer. This is good, because it means that PS4 architecture is different, which likely means its no longer "AWful" that we had before.

you'd think that a PC could play old PC games without issue, concidering the requirements from the past are significaly less then they are today. but try to load up an old game without proper emulation will either result in the game not functioning, or a crash. Just because the hardware is more powerful doesn't mean it'll run everything smoothly. Sometimes a machine can be too powerful and overclock settings into an unplayable state. The story is that some titles from the PSN won't be playable "right away" meaning that they are focusing on making sure the launch games arn't buggy and laggy, while saving their "longer lasting" classic titles for another day, when they've ironed out internal emulation.

you can. i isntalled and booted up a 1995 game, multiple of them, with ease. all i had to do is check a few boxes in shortcuts properties and windows does the rest. the only game i had problem was Scarface (and its not that old) because the graphic card no longer supported Pixel Shader of old age.

 

[Treblaine]

"Eventually, some PS3 titles will make the jump, but only ones that the PS4 can emulate without radically overstretching its processor."

This is worrying, considering there are already functional PC emulators out there for PS3, this means either PS4 is not very powerful or Sony is telling some major porkies

This is inexcusable considering the number of PSN games that are just emulations to PS3 you just need to emulate to PS4 instead.

Also, what kind of price are we paying for a game that will start with NO back catalogue, not even PSN games?!?!

Well since the PS4 is not backwards compatible it makes sense for PSN games to not work on it. All of those games were designed for the ps3. They wont just magically start working on the ps4 since it is basically a new format. Its the same reason why your ps3 games dont work on the 360.

Sure they could use an emulator but those are buggy as all hell and never work with every single game. They are also not going to just port every game on the psn over because the vast majority of those games are not theirs.

Well since the PS4 is not backwards compatible

That's starting from a wrong principal.

The fact is in MANY ASPECTS the PS4 should be backwards compatible. You can't just blindly accept Sony's declaration that "PS4 is not backwards compatible".

Many of the games on PSN were not designed for PS3, they were designed for PS1, PS2, and PSP and a simple emulation profile is stuck on top. It just needs a PS4 version of the emulator instead.

And PS4 should be powerful enough to emulate PS3 games, as gaming PCs can today.

Emulators made by fans who do not have access to source code nor huge budgets actually work extremely well.

The problem with all this is it totally ruins transition from PS3 to PS4.

 

[bluegate]

The mild "shitstorm" going on in this topic is what ran through my mind when they announced their cpu architecture the other day...

 

[lazarus990]

Not really going to be a problem since I will be buying a PS4 for PS4 games. Backwards comparability is a complete irrelevancy to me.

Dude, must be nice to be made of money. I for one, won't be buying a PS4 unless it is fully BC with the PS3 at a minimum.

Get used to disappointment then. The hardware architecture is completely different between the PS2, PS3 and PS4. None of them are gonna play nice with each other, which is why streaming was their only option.

BTW, if the next Xbox is also X86 architecture, they'll have the same issue, so don't expect the 720 to be your saving grace. If BC is something you absolutely need for consoles, the coming generation will probably suck for you.

720 a saving grace? Are you kidding? I wouldn't touch an Xbox with a 10 foot pole, let alone would I switch from Sony to micro-barf. If anything, I'll be switching from my console to PC.

But you bring up an interesting point. Every new system in the past 10 years seems to play the "we're using different architecture" excuse. Here's the deal: if you know BC is an issue, and I know it, and all the game critics are ranting about it, and every marketing department for Sony/Microsoft/Nintendo is hearing it, why wouldn't you work to fix the problem? Lt me say that again. Slowly. You see a problem, so fix it!

The biggest fault of the PS3, as I see it, was the fact that the library at release was almost non-existent. The games were lack-luster at best, and there seemed to be so few of them. If you integrated BC into the PS4 (even just PS3 compatibility) you would start with literally hundreds of games. You could then have the developers take their time on their new PS4 games and give us something good and solid. As opposed to all the rushed, buggy crap that's been coming out as of late.

BC is a game changer. And whoever does it first will force the financial hand of the other two giants. Say Nintendo does it and the others don't. I can see the potential for a lost revenue for Sony and Microsoft, simply for the fact that there are more games for the Nintendo system. More revenue means more buying power, means more capital, means more room to expand and innovate. This whole issue of BC could be the domino that starts the chain, and the nail in the coffin for one or both the others.

 

[Epona]

"Eventually, some PS3 titles will make the jump, but only ones that the PS4 can emulate without radically overstretching its processor."

This is worrying, considering there are already functional PC emulators out there for PS3, this means either PS4 is not very powerful or Sony is telling some major porkies

This is inexcusable considering the number of PSN games that are just emulations to PS3 you just need to emulate to PS4 instead.

Also, what kind of price are we paying for a game that will start with NO back catalogue, not even PSN games?!?!

It would take a very powerful PC to emulate the PS3 full speed and that's if the emulator can even do it. PC emulators take years to perfect, even SNES emulators aren't perfect yet.

I think it's unreasonable to expect the PS4 to emulate a PS3. I do think the PS4 can emulate the PS1 and PS2 though. They say 10x the power is needed to emulate something and I have no doubt that the PS4 is atleast 10 times as powerful as the PS2, I mean they have an PS2 emulator on the PS3.

 

[Treblaine]

The other way would be to make a ps3 emulator inside the ps4, but considering high end PC's have a hard time running a ps3 emulator smoothly the ps4 wouldn't stand a chance.

Well that's worrying. If the PS4 TODAY (as much as a year before it even launches) isn't as powerful as high end personal computers from months ago then PS3 will start behind PC and fall back even further in a very short time.

Xbox 360 - when it launched in 2005 - it beat the top end PCs. And look how quickly PC left Xbox 360 behind in terms of capability.

Now I know we've seen some fancy demos of PS4 games... but Sony never promised they'd never pull the same thing they did with the Killzone 2 trailer again.

Hopefully PS4 won't be expensive, as apparently it's in the awful middle ground of too different to have any crossover with PS3 yet not powerful enough to simply emulate it.

 

[Blunderboy]

Xbox 360 - when it launched in 2005 - it beat the top end PCs.

It most certainly did not good sir.

 

[Treblaine]

"Eventually, some PS3 titles will make the jump, but only ones that the PS4 can emulate without radically overstretching its processor."

This is worrying, considering there are already functional PC emulators out there for PS3, this means either PS4 is not very powerful or Sony is telling some major porkies

This is inexcusable considering the number of PSN games that are just emulations to PS3 you just need to emulate to PS4 instead.

Also, what kind of price are we paying for a game that will start with NO back catalogue, not even PSN games?!?!

It would take a very powerful PC to emulate the PS3 full speed and that's if the emulator can even do it. PC emulators take years to perfect, even SNES emulators aren't perfect yet.

I think it's unreasonable to expect the PS4 to emulate a PS3. I do think the PS4 can emulate the PS1 and PS2 though. They say 10x the power is needed to emulate something and I have no doubt that the PS4 is atleast 10 times as powerful as the PS2, I mean they have an PS2 emulator on the PS3.

If SNES emulators aren't perfect... then NOTHING is perfect and I remind you those were made by indie coders, in their spare time, not for profit and - most importantly - they didn't have access to any privileged source code.

Sony does.

Which is why emulation worked so well for PS3.

Yes, the early issue PlayStation 3 consoles were fully backwards compatible entirely by software emulation and I can't say they were perfect as that is an extreme term, but I can say after playing through my entire PS1 and PS2 collection on PS3 I was yet to find any fault.

But PS3 could do that because it was much more powerful than PS2.

So PS4 not doing emulation means Sony is either:
(a) Monumentally Lazy and incompetent for such a resource rich corporation
(b) lying abotu emulation capability in a disingenuous attempt to wring more money from people, or
(c) the PS4 is much less of a leap in hardware capability than it's made out to be
(d) all of the above.

My money is on (d), knowing Sony. I mean I love PlayStation game but I do not trust Sony, the COMPANY is terrible.

See this is the difference between my views and fanboys, I can love Uncharted series... without thinking I have to love the CEO of Sony.

A genrational leap like from PS3 to PS4 bloody well should be 10x more powerful s in powerful enough to emulate the previous generation overwise it's a wasted half step.

 

[Treblaine]

Xbox 360 - when it launched in 2005 - it beat the top end PCs.

It most certainly did not good sir.

I'll call you bluff then my good man...

I'll admit it BARELY beat the best of PC. Literally a month later a graphics card came out that topped it but there was a brief period where it was ahead. But PS4 seems to be even at this stage can't do what PCs were doing months ago. I mean PS2 games were successfully emulated on PS3 before they were emulated on PC.

And I am giving Xbox 360 benefit of the doubt, just comparing launch games apparent setting and framerate with PC. Though I only looked at one comparison.

And of course we all see how quickly PC pulled ahead of Xbox 360 and even lapped the PS3 on launch.

 

[rob_simple]

I thought the entire point of a transition to digital over hard copies would be avoiding things like this. The way this is going I'll be plugging in my shiny new PS4 around about 2020.

 

[Burst6]

If SNES emulators aren't perfect... then NOTHING is perfect and I remind you those were made by indie coders, in their spare time, not for profit and - most importantly - they didn't have access to any privileged source code.

Sony does.

Which is why emulation worked so well for PS3.

Yes, the early issue PlayStation 3 consoles were fully backwards compatible entirely by software emulation and I can't say they were perfect as that is an extreme term, but I can say after playing through my entire PS1 and PS2 collection on PS3 I was yet to find any fault.

But PS3 could do that because it was much more powerful than PS2.

So PS4 not doing emulation means Sony is either:
(a) Monumentally Lazy and incompetent for such a resource rich corporation
(b) lying abotu emulation capability in a disingenuous attempt to wring more money from people, or
(c) the PS4 is much less of a leap in hardware capability than it's made out to be
(d) all of the above.

My money is on (d), knowing Sony. I mean I love PlayStation game but I do not trust Sony, the COMPANY is terrible.

See this is the difference between my views and fanboys, I can love Uncharted series... without thinking I have to love the CEO of Sony.

A genrational leap like from PS3 to PS4 bloody well should be 10x more powerful s in powerful enough to emulate the previous generation overwise it's a wasted half step.

The early PS3's were backwards compatible because they had PS2 parts in them. There were two backwards compatable model types. Ones that just put in a full ps2 into the ps3 for perfect emulation, and ones that only put in a part of the ps2 and had emulation that was a bit buggy. They were the first to go because they greatly drove up prices. The PS4 is a good leap in hardware. About as much as we expect, and i would say about as big as the leap between ps2 and ps3. They can't make it too big or else consoles will cost too much. Sony learned their lesson from the last generation and they don't want to make the ps4 600 dollars.