Publishers Wanted Life is Strange Devs to Make Leads Male

Lightknight

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Nov 26, 2008
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CaitSeith said:
Publishers aren't charity, but they are a relatively small group that has the most direct influence on how the games (specially AAA games) are made. That's some serious power over the gaming industry (or at least a big upper-hand in negotiations);
Well yeah, because without them the games wouldn't exist. Do you think the people that make the game happen shouldn't have serious power and say over what goes into the game they funded? I mean, if you personally invested $30 million into a project wouldn't you want some sort of control and safe guards over it?

and although it's true that as a business one of their main goals is to use it for putting money in their pockets, someone should make sure that their strategy doesn't be always playing it safe. Or else the market will eventually stagnate at best or crash at worst.
It's not stagnating now. The majority of games are playing it safe and that's OK since a lot of other games are pushing the envelope here or there thanks to the developer's vision. Indie games are also taking big risks that wouldn't be as safe to take with AAA money. So the market is healthy right now in a way it wouldn't be if they behaved in the manners you are advocating now.

You can see that kind of effects already in the F2P, where most games seem to have been designed by accountants (business first, consumer satisfaction ignored).
You seem to forget that F2P is a new model that is a mutation rather than stagnation. F2P IS a risk and isn't playing it safe.

Playing it safe isn't producing shit games. It's producing what people generally like. That isn't going to result in a market crash and will generate consistent growth in the market.

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People don't like COD because it's pushing some sort of envelope. They like it because it does what they like and does it well. They implement new mechanics here and there but they aren't drastically changing anything. People need to get over themselves when they think COD players aren't real gamers or aren't a legitimate part of the market segment. Shooters are real games and big business. Heck, you can play as a woman in COD now too, fyi. Because, why not?

It is a scary thing to consider but the reason why there are so many sequels aren't because companies are playing it safe but because they are insanely profitable.

I'll take it a step further. The Last of Us, one of my favorite games of all time, didn't really do anything new. What it did was take elements we know and love and perfected them. Heck, they even took the escort mission that I wish would drop off the face of the planet and made it painless for an entire game.



PS:

Lightknight said:
snip

http://www.flurry.com/sites/default/files/blog-images/GameType_byAge_andGender-resized-600_0.png
Where did you find that!? I have been searching for those statistics for a long time! (that and the platform statistics)

EDIT: Wait a minute... tracked iOS games? Does that mean that the study is based on mobile games only? What a bummer...

PS captcha: virtue of necessity
Yeah, regarding your edit, I've had a hard as heck time finding that. The only other things I'm finding are various studies on why women don't seem to like violent games like men do rather than studies establishing that to be true. The general conclusion (whether correct or not) seems to deal with variances empathy and aggression between genders.

The good news is that the graph I presented does still represent a legitimate difference in preference of game types by gender. Even if it's just on the iOS platform the data still presents a wide margin of difference.

While I haven't really found basic charts I have found a few articles:

http://digitalcommons.unl.edu/cgi/viewcontent.cgi?article=1019&context=commstudiespapers

Check out page 17 and 18 in the link. (page 515 and 516 in the paper)

It seems like all the papers I can drum up agree on a significant difference in genre preference by genre with men by far accounting for our traditional AAA titles like Shooters, Fighting games, Action Adventure games and the like. I've found a non-trivial number of studies that are behind a paywall. The abstracts coincide with the difference in genre but I don't have the data (unless I want to pay $200 for a book or start a subscription for a site). Sadly, I've been out of college for so long that I no longer have a subscription to journals repositories like jstore where I could likely have read these for free.

Publishers know this difference. They design games according to these preferences depending on the genre of game. In games that are very highly likely to be male then the protagonist will be either male or an option to choose between. In games where there is a higher liklihood for females to play then you start to only see games where you can choose between gender and even unknown protagonist gender (think something like RTS' god mode where you don't really have a gender, you are literally just you). The reason why it doesn't commonly go to just women instead of having a choice between genders is again, because of the overall consumer market of AAA games being overwhelmingly male. I would anticipate seeing more female protagonists in iOS or social games and that has anecdotally been true in the games I've looked at in a world where a Kardashian game can become a popular phone app.

I would posit that games that give players an option to choose gender of the protagonist are directly catering to women and should be recognized as such. It is disappointing to hear people trivialize those games but they allow exactly what people want and should be held in the highest esteem where diversity in gaming is concerned. What people are arguing for when they say "diversity" isn't actually diversity. What they want is for only their group to be catered to at the cost of another as some sort of balancing of scales. That's not only unethical but dishonest. Any games that allow you to play as a woman should be considered a win for diversity. But there's a TON of those so I guess people wouldn't have much to argue about after that.

This is really a fascinating area of study for me. I would love to have been a researcher if I felt like I could make a living at it. Instead, my statistics courses all had to be electives except the few that coincided with my degrees. But I certainly love picking studies apart. Please let me know if you find a decent publically available article on the subject. I did see a chart awhile back that really simply outlined the different preferences of genre by gender but have not seen it again.

EDIT: Ooh, couple fun studies:

2012 showing that men far prefer violent video games as compared to women who much prefer social games:

http://usabilitynews.org/video-games-males-prefer-violence-while-females-prefer-social/

It also gives a breakdown of genre preferences:

"Males were more likely than females to be drawn to games from the Strategy, Role Playing, Action, and Fighting genres whereas females were more likely than males to play games from the Social, Puzzle/Card, Music/Dance, Educational/Edutainment, and Simulation genres. Overall, more males than females treated video game playing as their primary hobby, while females viewed playing video games as less important than other hobbies such as watching television."

Since this mirrors the iOS chart I originally presented. It appears that preference of genre is not dependent on platform. Which means that chart applies across platform.
 

The Youth Counselor

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Lightknight said:
CaitSeith said:
Sorry. I didn't mean to ask why the films flop. I was asking the reference for your conclusion that there is such a low successes/flops ratio to state "usually" (in other words, which is the ratio?).
That's what I meant with my last paragraph. Without someone doing actual footwork any answers I could give you are anecdotal at best and, the burden of proof being on my shoulders, means I can't really give you a numerical answer because there doesn't appear to be one. It's like everyone talking about it is talking in anecdotes. People saying that movies do well point to movies like Tomb Raider in one breath while ignoring the failed performance of the sequel.

I only know that Hollywood execs are claiming that they're the ones that are the riskiest choice that flop. I think what many of them are looking for are building franchises and there's a lot of female led action movies that really don't do well on sequels. So I can understand their line of thinking there but like I said before, the sequels are often very poorly made. But hey, so was Iron Man 2.
Catching Fire, Frozen, and Gravity were the top grossing movies of 2013. Mockingjay was the top grossing movie of 2014. Many of the other top grossing action movies were female oriented or had a significant character that was a woman.

So I think you're on the money that it really just speaks about the quality. (Although I couldn't really get into The Hunger Games, but it's not bad.)
 

Spartan448

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NiPah said:
RJ Dalton said:
Well, of course they didn't. If there's one thing you can say about Japan, it's that they don't shy away from female leads. Of course, they frequently have the female leads in skimpy outfits and do frequent panty shots, but they still have female leads.
-Game publisher agrees to publish game in keeping with the developer's vision, including allowing female leads.
-First response: Use of stereotype to insult the country where the publisher is based out of.

Stay classy mate.
I mean... he isn't exactly wrong.

Not completely right. For every Vanille I can point to at least one major character from other Japanese games who wear actual sensible armor. Or in some cases drive tanks.
 

NiPah

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Spartan448 said:
NiPah said:
RJ Dalton said:
Well, of course they didn't. If there's one thing you can say about Japan, it's that they don't shy away from female leads. Of course, they frequently have the female leads in skimpy outfits and do frequent panty shots, but they still have female leads.
-Game publisher agrees to publish game in keeping with the developer's vision, including allowing female leads.
-First response: Use of stereotype to insult the country where the publisher is based out of.

Stay classy mate.
I mean... he isn't exactly wrong.

Not completely right. For every Vanille I can point to at least one major character from other Japanese games who wear actual sensible armor. Or in some cases drive tanks.
I wasn't saying he was wrong, just taken aback by the post itself.
 

mecegirl

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CaitSeith said:
gmaverick019 said:
Phasmal said:
Hmm, where's all the outrage from the people who insist we protect `creative freedom`?

How strange.

Anyway, that's fucked up. Games industry/publishing needs to get the fuck over itself and just let people make games.

I'm not interested in this game since it just doesn't tickle my interest, but since you insist starting out with a completely not snide and generalized comment like that...

reporting for duty.

I don't grab my pitchfork and torch, but I do believe pubs should generally fuck off and let dev's go with their "creative freedom" to steal your phrase. Not that they are completely comparable, but I do think publishers do mess with movie scripts/scenes and books sometimes, so I think alot of industries do have their fault with messing with products and it's not unique to gaming.
"...I think alot of industries do have their fault with messing with products and it's not unique to gaming."

I agree, however I doubt book and movie publishers said something like "Yeah, Hunger Games sounds like a good idea; but first you have to replace the protagonist with a male character, or there's no deal."
I don't know about the publishing side of things but I've heard discouraging stories from the editing/teaching side with books. Mostly as it concerns race. A writer will write a book based on their own, or people they know lived experiences and a writing professor or an editor will tell them that its not "authentic" enough. Basically because the character is a POC that doesn't fit stereotypical notions of their race.

So stories like what author Cynthia Smith describes in this podcast. http://firstdraftwithsarahenni.tumb.../boisterous-eloquent-and-just-the-tiniest-bit
An editor said to me, ?It?s wonderful that you are depicting this Native American woman as a strong woman who is educated, she?s an attorney, but that?s just not realistic. We all wish that there were American Indian women lawyers, but that?s just not the reality.? And I felt somewhat flummoxed. Because I had a tribal ID and I had a law degree, and I was sitting there. I realized it might be more challenging than I anticipated to get out the stories that to me rang true. But also that there was a tremendous need for them.
 

MerlinCross

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*Headdesk* Again? Heck why stop there? Cramp in cover based shooting and microtransactions. OH and multiplayer. Can we just please stop trying to 'appeal to a boarder audience' or some other bull? Should be able to stand on it's own merits.

That said, probably not gonna pick up the title anyway. Not because it has a woman/girl as the lead, no no no. Just that the gameplay reminds me of Telltale's work and well I never liked their games either. Good stories yes but I'd perfer to see like an LP of it.
 

CaitSeith

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Jun 30, 2014
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mecegirl said:
CaitSeith said:
I agree, however I doubt book and movie publishers said something like "Yeah, Hunger Games sounds like a good idea; but first you have to replace the protagonist with a male character, or there's no deal."
I don't know about the publishing side of things but I've heard discouraging stories from the editing/teaching side with books. Mostly as it concerns race. A writer will write a book based on their own, or people they know lived experiences and a writing professor or an editor will tell them that its not "authentic" enough. Basically because the character is a POC that doesn't fit stereotypical notions of their race.

So stories like what author Cynthia Smith describes in this podcast. http://firstdraftwithsarahenni.tumb.../boisterous-eloquent-and-just-the-tiniest-bit
An editor said to me, ?It?s wonderful that you are depicting this Native American woman as a strong woman who is educated, she?s an attorney, but that?s just not realistic. We all wish that there were American Indian women lawyers, but that?s just not the reality.? And I felt somewhat flummoxed. Because I had a tribal ID and I had a law degree, and I was sitting there. I realized it might be more challenging than I anticipated to get out the stories that to me rang true. But also that there was a tremendous need for them.
As I said. I agree that this kind of issues happen in several industries at some level. It's good to know where the issues appear in the book side. But still I was focused in the publishers, who play a different role than the editors.