Question of the Day, August 19, 2010
- Thread starter The Escapist Staff
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I'm still having problems believing that 2001 is good. I understand that the special effects were outstanding back in the 60s and that the camerawork is technically almost perfect, but it's way too long and it doesn't have anything to it except for the overly artistic allegory stuff.LordCuthberton said:
Besides, Star Trek came a few years before and it was kinda good. Sure, most of the actors are kinda bad and there is too much fighting and women for it to be taken completely seriously, but the ideas behind the stuff are good and in some episodes the endless women and fighting actually fit really well. So Star Trek gets my vote.
I would say Star Wars, because come on who has NOT seen at least one of those movies?
Not to mention it has numerous video games/books/comics ect. based off the movies, almost to many to count.
Not to mention it has numerous video games/books/comics ect. based off the movies, almost to many to count.
I know there are less than a dozen of us who think so, but I'm siding with Conan. Why, you ask?
Well here's the thing. The mythology of Robert E. Howard predates everything else on the list, and is largely responsible for any and all nerdery to this day. Just as we can draw a line from Dungeons and Dragons to the rest of modern gaming, we can draw a line from Conan, Kull, Bran Mak Morn and Solomon Kane to modern fantasy. And...back to Dungeons and Dragons. That's right kids! I posit here and now that without the varied, interesting, explicit and gorgeous fiction of the 15 original stories of Conan, WE WOULDN'T EVEN GAME THE SAME WAY.
Star Wars drew from "Hero With 1,000 Faces" to find archetypal crusaders, villains, rogues, and what--for lack of a better term--we'll call NPC's. Conan has been every one of these, and liaised with even more of them. Star Trek took the possibilities of the Star Wars universe and tried, quite successfully I might add (although I prefer Star Wars and grit my teeth whenever I have to extol anything Trekish) to realize the sort of world where the damn-near-mythological technology and prowess present in Star Wars in a world bound by Newtonian mechanics. Batman's consideration of ethics has been greater than that of most religious groups over the course of his run, but it was that consideration that moved or stayed Conan's hand over and over again from the time of his youth to his appointment to king of Aquilonia. You can see the gears turning in his head as he considers the right and wrong of his actions, despite their relative ease and his lack of consequence at most times.
I don't consider the rest of the works here as qualifying opponents to Howard's work. Star Wars, Star Trek and Batman took components of nerdery and followed them to their logical conclusions. Thank God. They are each beautiful and essential to our culture in their own ways. The world is more beautiful and interesting because they exist. Still, they each owe s debt to everyone's favorite Cimmerian. Without him, they might not be.
Also, inb4 "lol Ahnold hur hur hur." Try to disregard the two hours of the Governator (that I actually dig, thank you) and read a fucking book. These stories predate more of our grandparents. And yes, that's older than Lord of the Rings.
Well here's the thing. The mythology of Robert E. Howard predates everything else on the list, and is largely responsible for any and all nerdery to this day. Just as we can draw a line from Dungeons and Dragons to the rest of modern gaming, we can draw a line from Conan, Kull, Bran Mak Morn and Solomon Kane to modern fantasy. And...back to Dungeons and Dragons. That's right kids! I posit here and now that without the varied, interesting, explicit and gorgeous fiction of the 15 original stories of Conan, WE WOULDN'T EVEN GAME THE SAME WAY.
Star Wars drew from "Hero With 1,000 Faces" to find archetypal crusaders, villains, rogues, and what--for lack of a better term--we'll call NPC's. Conan has been every one of these, and liaised with even more of them. Star Trek took the possibilities of the Star Wars universe and tried, quite successfully I might add (although I prefer Star Wars and grit my teeth whenever I have to extol anything Trekish) to realize the sort of world where the damn-near-mythological technology and prowess present in Star Wars in a world bound by Newtonian mechanics. Batman's consideration of ethics has been greater than that of most religious groups over the course of his run, but it was that consideration that moved or stayed Conan's hand over and over again from the time of his youth to his appointment to king of Aquilonia. You can see the gears turning in his head as he considers the right and wrong of his actions, despite their relative ease and his lack of consequence at most times.
I don't consider the rest of the works here as qualifying opponents to Howard's work. Star Wars, Star Trek and Batman took components of nerdery and followed them to their logical conclusions. Thank God. They are each beautiful and essential to our culture in their own ways. The world is more beautiful and interesting because they exist. Still, they each owe s debt to everyone's favorite Cimmerian. Without him, they might not be.
Also, inb4 "lol Ahnold hur hur hur." Try to disregard the two hours of the Governator (that I actually dig, thank you) and read a fucking book. These stories predate more of our grandparents. And yes, that's older than Lord of the Rings.
Lord of the Rings
It's hard to have an excellent movie based on a book, but to have a trinity of great movies based on even greater fantasy fiction which contains an entire world with different cultures, languages, and compelling characters. Tolkein's "Lord of the Rings" trilogy remained strong from beginning to end and is without a doubt the Nerd's Bible.
It's hard to have an excellent movie based on a book, but to have a trinity of great movies based on even greater fantasy fiction which contains an entire world with different cultures, languages, and compelling characters. Tolkein's "Lord of the Rings" trilogy remained strong from beginning to end and is without a doubt the Nerd's Bible.
While I love Star Trek, and I'm 64% sure Star Wars will win, I threw my vote into the Indiana Jones camp.
Surely, everyone, deep down, wants to be Indy. He's like Superman with a book and a whip and no stupid superpowers. Even down to his glasses.
Surely, everyone, deep down, wants to be Indy. He's like Superman with a book and a whip and no stupid superpowers. Even down to his glasses.
I voted for Star Trek for two very good reasons.
1) Star Trek was one of the earlier properties around which nerds collected. Thanks to Star Trek conventions, like-minded individuals gathered together to share their common interest in something decidedly nerdy. No doubt similar events were held for other properties. Lord of the Rings, for example. But such things were trumped by...
2) Star Trek was on a widely experience medium. Say whatever you want about written word or comics being just as viable a medium as moving pictures. the simple fact is that no other medium is as widely experience as motion pictures, be it on film or television. This gave Star Trek accessibility that Lord of the Rings or Dune simply did not have. This made Star trek recognizable outside of that core group of enthusiasts and it was likely to be enjoyed by more casual viewers.
I don't know about you, but I got bored with Fellowship before the Hobbits got to Bree. Life circumstances made it impossible for me to continue reading at the time and I have been unenthusiastic to start back up again.
You can say whatever you like about the books and my attention span, but you would be stupidly missing the point. The point is, I didn't get very far into the books while I have watched all three movies multiple times. For good or ill, motion pictures are much more accessible than most other media and thus properties in motion pictures tend to become part of the collective subconscious more readily.
Now, my experience may be lacking, but I am having a hard time thinking of another nerd property that has both of these elements going for it or elements that are comparable. I am perfectly willing and eager to learn about something that was much earlier.
But my main reason for choosing Star Trek over all the others listed was because Star trek was the Petri dish, the primordial ooze of nerd culture. All those other things came after or did not quite come into its own until later.
Of the other properties listed, Superman and Batman could make a bid for that claim as both are relatively well-known outside of their core fandom and both had been in other media, including motion pictures. But the handling of both properties in other media (and, indeed, their core media of comics) leaves them both as children's fare. Star trek would air in syndication just before the six o'clock news. While fantastic, it was considered somewhat more "adult."
1) Star Trek was one of the earlier properties around which nerds collected. Thanks to Star Trek conventions, like-minded individuals gathered together to share their common interest in something decidedly nerdy. No doubt similar events were held for other properties. Lord of the Rings, for example. But such things were trumped by...
2) Star Trek was on a widely experience medium. Say whatever you want about written word or comics being just as viable a medium as moving pictures. the simple fact is that no other medium is as widely experience as motion pictures, be it on film or television. This gave Star Trek accessibility that Lord of the Rings or Dune simply did not have. This made Star trek recognizable outside of that core group of enthusiasts and it was likely to be enjoyed by more casual viewers.
I don't know about you, but I got bored with Fellowship before the Hobbits got to Bree. Life circumstances made it impossible for me to continue reading at the time and I have been unenthusiastic to start back up again.
You can say whatever you like about the books and my attention span, but you would be stupidly missing the point. The point is, I didn't get very far into the books while I have watched all three movies multiple times. For good or ill, motion pictures are much more accessible than most other media and thus properties in motion pictures tend to become part of the collective subconscious more readily.
Now, my experience may be lacking, but I am having a hard time thinking of another nerd property that has both of these elements going for it or elements that are comparable. I am perfectly willing and eager to learn about something that was much earlier.
But my main reason for choosing Star Trek over all the others listed was because Star trek was the Petri dish, the primordial ooze of nerd culture. All those other things came after or did not quite come into its own until later.
Of the other properties listed, Superman and Batman could make a bid for that claim as both are relatively well-known outside of their core fandom and both had been in other media, including motion pictures. But the handling of both properties in other media (and, indeed, their core media of comics) leaves them both as children's fare. Star trek would air in syndication just before the six o'clock news. While fantastic, it was considered somewhat more "adult."
Why is there no LOTR. As yahtzee said, it invented the "Modern Fantasy Setting". I personally like star wars more and voted for it but LOTR is really just too obvious to miss.
I dispute the correctness of these poll results on the basis that the most important series to nerd culture must be one that has unique appeal to nerds.
I shall explain with the aid of an illustration.
Star Wars: Makes sense to normal people and dorks.
Superman: Makes sense to normal people and dorks.
Alien & Aliens: Makes sense to normal people and dorks.
Blade Runner: Does not make sense to normal people but does make sense to people with social skills. This is for movie geeks.
Conan the Barbarian: Makes sense to normal people and dorks.
Indiana Jones Series: Mostly makes sense to normal people.
Star Trek: Makes sense mostly to dorks. Maybe even a few normal people with the sacrilegious new movie.
Dune: The first real contender. If you have social skills then you will avoid this and if you are not a nerd you will not understand it's overwhelming majesty.
Ghostbusters: too normal.
Back to the Future Trilogy: normal, normal, normal.
2001: See Bladerunner.
Batman: Too Nolanal.
It has to be Dune. You don't even have to be a Mentat to see that now that I have explained.
I shall explain with the aid of an illustration.
Star Wars: Makes sense to normal people and dorks.
Superman: Makes sense to normal people and dorks.
Alien & Aliens: Makes sense to normal people and dorks.
Blade Runner: Does not make sense to normal people but does make sense to people with social skills. This is for movie geeks.
Conan the Barbarian: Makes sense to normal people and dorks.
Indiana Jones Series: Mostly makes sense to normal people.
Star Trek: Makes sense mostly to dorks. Maybe even a few normal people with the sacrilegious new movie.
Dune: The first real contender. If you have social skills then you will avoid this and if you are not a nerd you will not understand it's overwhelming majesty.
Ghostbusters: too normal.
Back to the Future Trilogy: normal, normal, normal.
2001: See Bladerunner.
Batman: Too Nolanal.
It has to be Dune. You don't even have to be a Mentat to see that now that I have explained.
I want to say Blade Runner - as I just love everything about it.
But it's a toss up between Star Wars and Star Trek...
But it's a toss up between Star Wars and Star Trek...
