Rapist With The Dragon Tattoo
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The act itself has two main benefits for lisbeth. The first is revenge against him for the original rape, which to her is entirely justified as he has raped her TWICE at this point. The other is that he has complete control over her life such has her finances and the like. If she reports him she'll still have someone she has no reason to trust in control of her life which she doesn't want. So she blackmails him to have her declared reasonably competent, so that she regains control of her life as well as giving him a fitting punishment.
Well...yes, but it's not as if he inserted himself into the story as saving a girl from rape. This time, the girl who'd been raped was the hero, even if it was likely a self-projection. Although, again, it could be interpreted as some kind of over-zealous feminist "Fuck yeah!"JimB said:
At this point in the book she is a mess and fucked up in the head. She has had an almost laughably tragic life up until this point.
Just so people know where she is coming from.
SPOILER ALERT!!!
As a kid she watched as her mother was slowly beaten to death by her father. She couldn't report him because he was ex KGB and was being given protection by the government. One day it gets so bad that her mother passes out, she suffers incurable brain damage and has to give up her children. Lisbeth takes matters into her own hands and sets her father on fire as he is leaving by dowsing him in gasoline. She is then sent to a psychiatric ward were she is sexually abused by one of the doctors. The only reason that she attacked her father was because she loved her mother and had no one to turn to for help. It is also suggested that she has Autism, and she is really bad at reading social cues or talking with people she doesn't like. The only reason she is released is because the doctor's superior suspects something and gets approval for her to be released as a ward of the state.
END SPOILER
She doesn't trust the legal system. It has always worked against her in her past and she believes that she can only rely on herself. Her revenge on her rapist is simply part of her character, its not right but once you get to know her you understand why she did it. As the series goes on she becomes a lot calmer and starts to recover from the numerous traumas she experienced.
Just so people know where she is coming from.
SPOILER ALERT!!!
As a kid she watched as her mother was slowly beaten to death by her father. She couldn't report him because he was ex KGB and was being given protection by the government. One day it gets so bad that her mother passes out, she suffers incurable brain damage and has to give up her children. Lisbeth takes matters into her own hands and sets her father on fire as he is leaving by dowsing him in gasoline. She is then sent to a psychiatric ward were she is sexually abused by one of the doctors. The only reason that she attacked her father was because she loved her mother and had no one to turn to for help. It is also suggested that she has Autism, and she is really bad at reading social cues or talking with people she doesn't like. The only reason she is released is because the doctor's superior suspects something and gets approval for her to be released as a ward of the state.
END SPOILER
She doesn't trust the legal system. It has always worked against her in her past and she believes that she can only rely on herself. Her revenge on her rapist is simply part of her character, its not right but once you get to know her you understand why she did it. As the series goes on she becomes a lot calmer and starts to recover from the numerous traumas she experienced.
The movie got it right then. I've never actually felt a physical response to a piece of literature before that chapter in that book. My face was deep red, my forehead was sweating, my stomach was writhing and I had a lump in throat. It's a very intense piece of literature.SaneAmongInsane said:
True, the sexualisation that went into the introduction of the character was nothing short of fetishistic, which strangely added to the perverse nature of the two rape sequences. I'm going on a limp here and saying Bob probably didn't read the books, and to add to the pretentious nature of it all, the characterization of the character was a critique of the environment she was raised into and how they developed her. Looking at the movie, I failed to see the masturbation factor, but I can see how it got translated as such a fantasy. And yes, you are quoting him right.JimB said:
I just want to point out that as a swede, I hate the english translation of the title. the swedish title had purpose, the english one is just a description of the main character.
the real title translates into "men that hates women".
But pretty much everything about the american version of the movie was pretty bad if you ask me.
it felt like the american movie tried to be the swedish movie that was an interpretation of the book.
do you know how annoying it is when they put random swedish words into scenes just to point out they are actually swedes, even though they speak english? words that the actors can't pronounce any way.
but as mentioned above, the story does not try to justify her actions or make it right, but to understand it you need perspective.
as you read through all of the books you come to understand her actions further and further, because, without being too spoilery, she has been failed by the system in every possible way.
so when the system pushes this sadistic rapist onto her as her "guardian" this is the only satisfying solution she can see, that also gives her and edge and freedom she has previously been refused by the system in question.
if you just want the full explenation and get everything spoiled you click here:
the real title translates into "men that hates women".
But pretty much everything about the american version of the movie was pretty bad if you ask me.
it felt like the american movie tried to be the swedish movie that was an interpretation of the book.
do you know how annoying it is when they put random swedish words into scenes just to point out they are actually swedes, even though they speak english? words that the actors can't pronounce any way.
but as mentioned above, the story does not try to justify her actions or make it right, but to understand it you need perspective.
as you read through all of the books you come to understand her actions further and further, because, without being too spoilery, she has been failed by the system in every possible way.
so when the system pushes this sadistic rapist onto her as her "guardian" this is the only satisfying solution she can see, that also gives her and edge and freedom she has previously been refused by the system in question.
if you just want the full explenation and get everything spoiled you click here:
Lisbeth salanders father is under the protection of Sapo (CIA pretty much), more specifically a super secure department withing sapo whos' purpose is to keep the kingdom safe at every cost imaginable.
when Lisbeth as a young child breaks down under the abuse she and her mother endures from her father without getting any help from the govenrment that instead just covers up for her father, she tries to murder him by throwing gasoline in his face and then put him on fire.
she is taken into custody by the government and her father is put through intensive care and survives.
to keep Lisbeth from saying anything she is not supposed to she is declared mentally ill and is put into mental care during most of her childhood.
when she reaches adulthood they screw with the system once more to strip her of all rights and declares that she is unable to take responsibility for her self and is assigned a guardian, and there by continues to keep tabs on her.
so basically, turning her guardian in would ammount to nothing but continued abuse by the system.
this way she fools the system by blackmailing the link between her and the system in question.
the rape and torture is in part a revenge fantasy, but also works as a reinforcement of fear ("I'm one crazy b*tch, mess with me and this happens") thereby making the blackmail much more efficient.
kick a dog too many time and even the most loyal one will bite back, might not be right, but in the face of hopelessness, what right can you do?
when Lisbeth as a young child breaks down under the abuse she and her mother endures from her father without getting any help from the govenrment that instead just covers up for her father, she tries to murder him by throwing gasoline in his face and then put him on fire.
she is taken into custody by the government and her father is put through intensive care and survives.
to keep Lisbeth from saying anything she is not supposed to she is declared mentally ill and is put into mental care during most of her childhood.
when she reaches adulthood they screw with the system once more to strip her of all rights and declares that she is unable to take responsibility for her self and is assigned a guardian, and there by continues to keep tabs on her.
so basically, turning her guardian in would ammount to nothing but continued abuse by the system.
this way she fools the system by blackmailing the link between her and the system in question.
the rape and torture is in part a revenge fantasy, but also works as a reinforcement of fear ("I'm one crazy b*tch, mess with me and this happens") thereby making the blackmail much more efficient.
kick a dog too many time and even the most loyal one will bite back, might not be right, but in the face of hopelessness, what right can you do?
I'd LOVE to see such a movie. As long as they make it realistic (statistically, most convicted rapists "raped" their girlfriend/boyfriend after turning 18, but before their significant other did). In the end the "protagonist" would realize that most, if not all people he raped were morally innocent. And then he would have to, by his internal logic, do something just as horrible to himself in order to punish his own wickedness.zelda2fanboy said:
In response to the OP no she's not. Though she did commit the act purely out of vengeance but often there are never better reasons to act than that.
I've personally thought it'd be amusing to have a show like dexter but instead of a serial killer who kills other killers, it's about a rapist who rapes other rapists.
I've personally thought it'd be amusing to have a show like dexter but instead of a serial killer who kills other killers, it's about a rapist who rapes other rapists.
Not that weird. If I said, "Much as I like deep fried pickles, Bob may have a point there", that would be weird. Loathing Bob's just a matter of having taste, or something.JimB said:
EDIT: I'm sorry, you deserve a slightly better answer then that. I really dislike Bob, due to his sloppy generalizing, and rampant tantrums. And, I tend to discount everything that comes out of his mouth as a result.
Fair enough. I've been doing pretty much the same thing to, well, it's probably not cool to name names, but yeah, I am not innocent of that crime. I just like to believe I wouldn't be grudging to admit they have a point, if they ever actually get a point one day; but don't we all like to think better of ourselves?Starke said:
Thanks for coming back and addressing me honestly. That's pretty cool of you.
Replace rape with murder and you've basically described the plot to the tv show Dexter. Some people think an eye for an eye is acceptable, some don't, both could make perfectly decent cases either way. Oh and you might want to hold onto your prison rapist raper idea because I could totally see that becoming a show on HBO.zelda2fanboy said:
It's a movie. That part was just in there to add to the drama and show that she's badass and crafty. It didn't really have much to do with the plot of the movie.
I thought the plot was solid and entertaining.
I thought the plot was solid and entertaining.
Oh... I'm cautiously curious in picking up the book now just to see how it was written.Do4600 said:
One of the reasons Rape should be avoided in fiction is because, aside from it being almost cliche, it's incredibly difficult thing to write. To much one way, and it's like a life time movie. To much another way, it's porn. It's extremely difficult to really hit the right tone to make the audience feel ill over it.
I wouldn't go as far as to say the movie did the book (i've never read it) justice, however because... well from the story perspective? Aside from giving her motivation to help with the case, I feel like one could of elimnated all rape scenes and the whole "getting her money from the government douchebag" thing and it wouldn't of changed the story.
Then again, while I can't say I agreed with Lisabeth sodomizing the guy and tattooing of his chest, it did leave me... Well it's a silly notion, but I found myself wishing I could give her a hug. Homegirl is soooooooo freaking dark, and distrusting, and then at the end when she thinks she has romantic feelings for James Bond and it doesn't work out it's soooooooooo that much more heart breaking. You spend the whole movie just wanting to see her smile, just a little bit.
It's a very well written book, the last sixth or so is a little slow. I found it absorbing, I finished it in three days over winter break.SaneAmongInsane said:
As far as the rape is concerned, it's certainly no lifetime special and it's far from pornography. It's very complex, I can almost guarantee that everybody will hate this man though. You're relating to Lisbeth at this point in the story. Lisbeth's emotions, however, are blank. She doesn't react. It almost seems like she treats sexual abuse as a unpleasant chore, at least at first. It's devastatingly awkward, devastatingly, dangerously awkward. This man thinks of it as a sexual encounter but Lisbeth is mechanically performing actions, it's disturbing. Lisbeth is more perplexed after the first incident, almost as if she is pondering what do do about a defective appliance. It's very alienating, I've never read anything that has invoked so many conflicting emotions so intensely.
So emotions are balanced out by knowledge?glchicks said:
Like the emotions of the victims in the real world are balanced out by knowing that the culprit will never harm anyone again and has been stripped of his freedom?
Should that not work as well?
Since, apparently emotions and knowledge totally work that way.
