Re-Take The Cabin

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keserak

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Ah, so the writers are tired of writing formula plots?

Fuck 'em.

I have no sympathy for them. I understand the problem, but I am totally unsympathetic. Understand: the writers aren't writing formula parts for free. They're writing drek, handing that drek to awful audiences, and then being handed More Money Than Humans Should Have in return.

So: fuck 'em.

They think that their job is to make art. They're wrong. They're artists, to be sure. I don't always like the art they make, but they're artists.

The trick is, they are ALSO movie-creators. And movie-creators aren't always employed to make art. But, and this is key, when they don't make art, they make ungodly sums of money.

So harden the fuck up. If you don't want to deal with mouthbreathing twats panning your film because they are literally too self-indulgent to confront their own vices being mocked in a completely impersonal fashion, then, guess what? No eleventy-zillion dollars for you. That's the gig.

This doesn't mean Cabin In the Woods is bad, and I'm certainly not criticizing Sucker Punch. But celebrities of all stripes have no cause to claim Poor Little Me when their official job description is "Shit into my own hands, spin half of the aforementioned shit into gold, and hand the rest, still dripping, to the audience."

So, of course, the longer it plays out and the more gloriously strange things get, the more the subterranean Elder Gods shake the earth with their fury and disappointment. "I didn't know it was gonna be all weird like that!" raged one theatergoer to her partners at one of my (four, so far) viewings of the film. "That was stupid! Go get our money back!" grumbled another, evidently unaware of how perfectly they were making the film's point for it.

This is almost too perfect to have happened, but I'm going to take Bob at his word here -- it was his fourth showing, he says. And I agree that those people were terrible. But again, and here's the thing: the only way to get money from those people is to feed them shit. If you don't like it, stop with the film industry and join the rest of us in gutting our education system until we have something openly hostile to Madison Avenue and most U.S. cultural touchstones. But if you want to sit on millions of dollars, do what you gotta do, but don't use your medium to be a whiny titty-baby about it. The rest of us have to not only avoid the drek you produce, we have to live with the twats that MovieBob overheard above.

Don't pile on.




P.S. -- We'll make you a deal. Turn Michael Bay's innards into Christmas decorations and you get to do another pity-party movie where evil spirits are forcing everyone to act out romantic comedy troupes. That seems fair. But Bay has to be awake the whole damn time.

The whole time.
 

Fapmaster5000

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Fox242 said:
The Bandit said:
I refuse to believe there is anyone out there who did not get the point of Cabin in the Woods.
Same here. I'm skeptical about Bob's version of events here.
No, I actually saw something very similar. Mind you, the guys involved had trucker caps on backwards, profane t-shirts, and couldn't speak correctly to save their lives, so it's certainly not your average person that missed the point of Cabin.
 

keserak

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And btw, this has fuck-all to do with Mass Effect 3. Once again, Bob has become a little over-obsessed with a bit of media. What you have to get is that Mass Effect 3 was pretty terrible. I don't play Mass Effect, but I saw that ending and I've played many bad rpgs before. Did customers protest other bad rpgs? Yes, but most of them didn't make much money and so there's no real outrcry besides "that game sucks."

The problem is that the people unhappy with Mass Effects ending range over every demographic imaginable. Some are irritating twats. Some are respectible human beings. Some are amazing human beings. ME3's ending is simply objectively terrible. It's a tedious formula ending in a genre already saturated with the stuff that defies the earlier-established narrative and game structure. It fills the screen with the minimum amount of flashy lights needed to reach the credits, undermining the "epic" scale of the plot ("the galaxy is burning, so let's show these five guys!"). For a rpg, the ending is an element of the game mechanics, and ME3's ending was an example of bad mechanics. Without plot-wrap-up blurbs, the entire "choice" mechanic fails, in the same way that bad camera schemes ruin many 3d games.

So the ending pisses off a lot of different people. No matter where on earth you go, nobody likes being poked with a sharp stick. Similarly, nobody likes a bad story. To make ME3 work with Cabin In the Woods, the dev-team stand-ins in the movie would have to be complaining about making a quality product that pleases discerning customers.

I'm not necessarily down with the shenanigans associated with the fan backlash, though I think EA deserves the customers it gets or worse. But the mere fact that the customers are upset is totally legit, and anyone becoming angry at someone who is unhappy that they bought a bad product is being more than a little dickish.
 

algalon

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I love the way this thread is evolving. "interesting thread. But you insulted me!" Next paragraph "Mass Effect 3 I HAS FURY!"

Bob didn't insult you. This movie was not aimed specifically to spoof the ME3 debate - the game didn't exist when the movie was created. But the narrative fit the debate like a glove. So it was just an odd coincidence that the movie was released on the heels of this big fan protest when a company decided to step away from established formula. The point is completely lost on some people I guess.
 

rayen020

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animehermit said:
rayen020 said:
...again you miss the point of Retake. I like you bob i really do. I watched GOT, i read your blog, watch big picture, american bob, escape, and obviously i read this article. So i'm lost as to how you can be this ignorant. In this case Cabin's dynamic of elder god/office worker's doesn't apply here. The audience didn't demand bland formula. And the creators didn't deliver bland formula. Hell bland formula would be an improvement. no that ending has failed at basic coherence. It is entirely disconnected from the rest of the game, which everyone agrees is awesome.

It'd be like watching Cabin in The Woods and then having the last ten minutes of New Years Eve tacked on. It wouldn't be a dig at horror, audience/creator interaction, or creator/publisher interaction*. it just be weird, out of place and ruin the rest of the movie.

*which incidently is how i see cabin, instead of the genius creator's vision, the literal overlords force bland formula and it blows up in their face.
It wasn't about bland formula, it was about delivering what fans wanted and exactly what they wanted, which is why I think it fits really well actually.
o_O either you misunderstood what i said or i'm misunderstanding what you said.

in cabin the creators gave the elder gods exactly what they wanted and it blew up in thier (the creators) faces. Whether the elder gods intended that is a whole other discussions.

in mass effect the creators failed at basic coherence and caused the ending to be disconnected from the rest of the game, story and gameplay wise. it wasn't that the fans are whining becasue they didn't get exactly what they wanted, it was because bioware advertised one thing and didn't deliver in the end.

the comparison doesn't work because Cabin is well crafted and drenched in symbolism, while ME (the end at least) is confusing lazy and devoid of any meaning. There was absolutely no way every ME fan was going to get exactly what they wanted, but not having a coherent ending or even one that provided any closure is unacceptable.
 

Terramax

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Sorry Bob, but you're just like all the other film critics out there. Making a good film out to be a great film.

I get the symbolisms but this film is neither the groundbreaker or the game changer so many tout it as. It's just another horror parody. A very fun one to watch, and one that works because it takes itself more seriously than others, but a parody all the same.

Even when act two appears, and things are supposed to go to the next level, all we get is an unintentionally cliched bloody finale instead of an intentional one in the first act.

The film is written, shot, acted, edited, and sold just like any other hollywood horror.

What's most remarkable, however, is how Bob lauds this film despite being not too different from Scream, that one film he's gone on record to say he despises the most. Both describe the rules in cliched horror films in a literal sense, with the puppeteers orchastrating exactly who dies in what order. The only difference with Cabin is that we don't get a movie buff to represent dear Bob here.

On that subject, disliking a film just because there's a character that represents you is a pretty lame reason at any rate. Serious question Bob, is it because you think you were above the other cliched members of high school? That you were somehow so unique and sophisticated that you shouldn't be represented in such a film?

I honestly thought Cabin was a very good movie. The most enjoyable film I've seen in the cinema for some time. But this film isn't going to have a profound influence on horror films of the future, nor is it going to set the film industry in a new direction in the same way that, say, The Blair Witch or The Ring did.

Perhaps I expected too much. I didn't watch any trailers, or read any reviews for this film prior to watching it. I only saw the bus advert with the distorted Cabin and the 'Ground Breaking, Game Changing' quotations. I was expecting something revolutionary, or experimental. Our generation's 'The Shining'.

What we got was just another concept movie. Maybe our generation's 'Scream'. Or the new 'in thing' for horror movies, like Paranormal Activity before it, and Saw before that. Not a bad thing, but not what it's being sold to be.
 

Jetsetneo

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Apr 2, 2010
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I like how people defend the ME3 ending as something original, when I got the same exact thing years ago in Deus Ex, and more recently in its Prequel/Sequel thing.

If anything its hardly Original.
 

Timmibal

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keserak said:
Fuck 'em.
You got it man, it's called 'paying your dues.' Anybody who's done anything artistic can attest to it.

You want to be known for your fantastic tattoos? You spend a million fucking hours scrawling the same flash on the lower backs of buck-a-dozen slatterns.

You want to be a lauded theatrical actor? You've got to spend years doing childrens pantomimes, or suck an OBSCENE amount of dick.

You want to be a respected director? Enjoy holding the spit-bucket for the overweight lighting technician for pennies.

I don't think the directors of these movies are being serious with the message, regardless of the intent of the author. I think there's more tongue in cheek present than Bob is really acknowledging in his article. Because lets face it, when you're Joss Whedon and you have more money than God, you don't get to complain that your art movies only earn you enough to do one pound of blow off a 16 year old's pert ass.
 

Fapmaster5000

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algalon said:
I love the way this thread is evolving. "interesting thread. But you insulted me!" Next paragraph "Mass Effect 3 I HAS FURY!"

Bob didn't insult you. This movie was not aimed specifically to spoof the ME3 debate - the game didn't exist when the movie was created. But the narrative fit the debate like a glove. So it was just an odd coincidence that the movie was released on the heels of this big fan protest when a company decided to step away from established formula. The point is completely lost on some people I guess.
Someone in this thread is definitely failing to understand, I'll grant you that. Please go up the thread and read my post about "bad versus broken" to get where most (civilized) people stand on the ending. Yes, there are twats. There always are. Keserak addresses that point in the post directly above yours.

Anyway, once you've read those points, then come back. There is a massive difference here, and it's not based around "like/don't like".
 
Apr 28, 2008
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Nah, if it would be like this whole re-take ME3 thing, the movie would have to go like this:

"Elder gods, we promise things will end a certain way! It will not be just 'A, B, or C'!"

*things do not end the way they were promised. Endings were A, B, or C.*

*Elder gods pissed that they were misled*

*Elder gods then raise hell*

Also this would all need to be stretched over the course of three 25+ hour games over 5 or so years.

Then it'd be like this whole retake ME3 thing.
 

Ticonderoga117

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*sigh* Bob, just stop. Leave ME3 alone. We know you don't care about the legitimate concerns of those people. Stick to movies. Just let it go ok? That way, we can get back into the dynamic of "You bring up something neat about movies, I learn it." If you really feel the urge to take a jab at video game problems, do it elsewhere. Far away preferably.

Second that for Halo too. 'Cause we get it.
 

The Grim Ace

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Bob, did someone from Retake go back in time and kill your dog when you were a child? That's my only clue for as to why they can gain your ire even when discussing something that, at least to me, is tangentially related at best.

OT: As great as The Raid was, Cabin gets my nod for best movie of the year so far for both depth and all of those movie monsters at once. Call me appeased.
 

Rassmusseum

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Oct 11, 2010
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Hadn't considered the Bioware parallels at all, but they totally work! Good show Bob, good show.
 

Rassmusseum

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Ticonderoga117 said:
*sigh* Bob, just stop. Leave ME3 alone. We know you don't care about the legitimate concerns of those people. Stick to movies. Just let it go ok? That way, we can get back into the dynamic of "You bring up something neat about movies, I learn it." If you really feel the urge to take a jab at video game problems, do it elsewhere. Far away preferably.

Second that for Halo too. 'Cause we get it.
It's funny cause you're mad about Bob not doing the same thing he always does every week and that's exactly the point he's made here about Cabin.
 

Kapol

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May 2, 2010
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I thought you were done talking about the ME scandle...

Oh well. I do agree with the point of feeling sympathetic for the people at the facility. Maybe not because of the same reasons you expressed though. Mine was more due to the fact they were simply doing as they had to in order for things not to go kaboom. While they did some things which seemed cold (I'm looking at the party while the action went on at the lakeside), it seemed more like they were simply trying to distract themselves from the awful things they were doing. This was emphasised even more when the 'dumb blond' character was killed. They obviously took no enjoyment from it, and it was obvious watching it happen wasn't something they WANTED to do. So they try to take their minds off the fact their altering these people at their most basic level and then helping them get slaughtered by, say, gambling.

Then again, I wouldn't wish the kinds of things that happened to them at the end on my worst enemy.
 

eventhorizon525

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Rassmusseum said:
Ticonderoga117 said:
*sigh* Bob, just stop. Leave ME3 alone. We know you don't care about the legitimate concerns of those people. Stick to movies. Just let it go ok? That way, we can get back into the dynamic of "You bring up something neat about movies, I learn it." If you really feel the urge to take a jab at video game problems, do it elsewhere. Far away preferably.

Second that for Halo too. 'Cause we get it.
It's funny cause you're mad about Bob not doing the same thing he always does every week and that's exactly the point he's made here about Cabin.
No, he is just kicking a dead horse for I can't even imagine what sane reason. ME3 threads have died down and everyone seems to have long since said their piece and decided on their position. But no, naturally lets taint an otherwise good article with a pointless jab at something that has been old news for awhile now. Either he writes these way in advance (which, well, isn't possible given the subject matter barring special screening) or he is purposefully pulling this in an attempt to up his views, which is pathetic.
 

Pandabearparade

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gmaverick019 said:
not to mention you entirely missing the point of the retake movement, especially after all this time.
One might think he's missing the point intentionally because he can't refute the actual point of the Retake movement, and he doesn't want to admit he was talking out of his ass.

He's too smug and self-important to admit when he's made a mistake.
 

Tohron

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So, basic consistency is now an "exacting specification"? Literally, if Bioware just gave Mass Effect 3 an ending that made sense, rather than contradicting itself at every turn, I would buy their game, despite it being Origin exclusive. You've made some pretty entertaining stuff, but sometimes, you really need to actually listen, rather than just making assumptions about a wide swath of people and then writing an article about the caricatures.

I won't threaten to stop reading your stuff or anything, since you do still write things worth reading, but jumping to conclusions is a really bad habit for someone working in journalism, and you should really try to start checking yourself on it.
 

Redd the Sock

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Right, because the first thing I see in internet comments is compalining about all the innovation films and games are taking and how we just want the same old same old. Sorry Bob, the more you go on this pity trip, the more I'm on re-take's side.

It's not that I don't sympathize with the arguement: we rip Battlestar Galactica and Heroes to shreds and then wonder why American Idol is on 3 nights a week and Dancing with the stars the others, and we do need to be more tollerant to things that differ from our ideal dreams and stick through slower periods. On the other hand, innovation only works and sticks if it still pleases the audience, so there's equal (if not more) blame in that the creator didn't sell the new idea right, assuming the idea wasn't poor in the first place. Cabin in the Woods sounds like little more than a cheap shot from someone that would rather stick failures on static fans than their own ability to sell a new idea. (note, I think that was the problem with ME3's ending, it didn't sell itself well.)

I get the frustration an artist must fell. I doubt The Avengers is Whedon's dream project, nor is it any of the actors' (well, maybe Sam Jackson) but they still have to smile for the PR. Still, that's life. We all have to appeal to those that pay our bills, and for the creative, that is the consumer. I get that isn't the dream for anyone that gets into the creative field, but can you even make a case those of us that ultimately pay the bills should just let you run free of our wishes and opinions?

PS: congratulations. I think this will be the first written collum to generate more traffic than the video.
 
Sep 14, 2009
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Pandabearparade said:
gmaverick019 said:
not to mention you entirely missing the point of the retake movement, especially after all this time.
One might think he's missing the point intentionally because he can't refute the actual point of the Retake movement, and he doesn't want to admit he was talking out of his ass.

He's too smug and self-important to admit when he's made a mistake.
i also think that's EA's and biowares problem. they refuse to acknowledge that it is a broken ending. if they just admitted to it, it'd go a long way i think to bridging a connection between developer/customer in either fixing the game, or coming to an understanding.

partially why i was okay with kotor 2's ending was because obsidian outright admitted it to being broken, and all the files were left on the disk to be fixed eventually (with modders help of course. it was still not a complete ending, but it was fixed enough to be enjoyable.)