Re-Take The Cabin
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Again with the shots to the Retake: Mass Effect group. Jeez, enough already. The metaphors in Cabin in the Woods are fine on the whole Audience/Filmakers dynamic... or at least it would be if there was a cevat that the ways they made sacrifices in the first place worked so they did it ad neaseum until the Elder Gods couldn't tolerate anything different, so they dug their own hole with the formula.
Cabin of the Woods is still good though. Just, some comparisons don't work as well as first thought out.
Cabin of the Woods is still good though. Just, some comparisons don't work as well as first thought out.
I haven't seen so many people miss the point of a movie since Moulin Rouge. But it also appeals to my inner sense of Smug to watch it play out. There are basically three groups of people here:MovieBob said:
Group A: The people who, in the process of their complaining, are inadvertently demonstrating the criticisms this movie levies at them.
Group B: The people who enjoy the movie at face value, unaware of the subtext. It's making fun of you, laughing at not with you, and you're laughing right along without realizing it.
Group C: The people who watch groups A and B with a certain sense of smug (or maybe sadistic) satisfaction, the way a young boy might watch ants roast under a magnifying lens... only superficially realizing that they're enjoying the same "guilty pleasures" they accuse the "lesser" groups of being slave to.
No one is safe, and that's what makes the whole thing great!
...again you miss the point of Retake. I like you bob i really do. I watched GOT, i read your blog, watch big picture, american bob, escape, and obviously i read this article. So i'm lost as to how you can be this ignorant. In this case Cabin's dynamic of elder god/office worker's doesn't apply here. The audience didn't demand bland formula. And the creators didn't deliver bland formula. Hell bland formula would be an improvement. no that ending has failed at basic coherence. It is entirely disconnected from the rest of the game, which everyone agrees is awesome.
It'd be like watching Cabin in The Woods and then having the last ten minutes of New Years Eve tacked on. It wouldn't be a dig at horror, audience/creator interaction, or creator/publisher interaction*. it just be weird, out of place and ruin the rest of the movie.
*which incidently is how i see cabin, instead of the genius creator's vision, the literal overlords force bland formula and it blows up in their face.
It'd be like watching Cabin in The Woods and then having the last ten minutes of New Years Eve tacked on. It wouldn't be a dig at horror, audience/creator interaction, or creator/publisher interaction*. it just be weird, out of place and ruin the rest of the movie.
*which incidently is how i see cabin, instead of the genius creator's vision, the literal overlords force bland formula and it blows up in their face.
*sigh* making these jabs once again at fanbases?
so unnecessary, especially when you act high and mightily smug up there upon your perch. not to mention you entirely missing the point of the retake movement, especially after all this time.
OT: the movie was quite a treat, i was expecting much different but i did enjoy it, on both the face value and what they were sneaking in with a deeper meaning. I couldn't care less about acting "smug" about it though, as some have mentioned, if you care that much to be "smug" about understanding a movie, then...well it's quite sad.
wouldn't recommend it for a date movie or such, but definitely if you have some free time.
so unnecessary, especially when you act high and mightily smug up there upon your perch. not to mention you entirely missing the point of the retake movement, especially after all this time.
OT: the movie was quite a treat, i was expecting much different but i did enjoy it, on both the face value and what they were sneaking in with a deeper meaning. I couldn't care less about acting "smug" about it though, as some have mentioned, if you care that much to be "smug" about understanding a movie, then...well it's quite sad.
wouldn't recommend it for a date movie or such, but definitely if you have some free time.
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Without dragging Mass Effect into the issue... Which seems, in this case, a bit like picking a fight and then demanding your big brother step in and take on the bullies for you because you've bitten off more than you can chew...
No, I really didn't find the office staff sympathetic. And honestly, I don't think the film did, either. They're a bunch of Adolf Eichmanns, hiding behind the rote and banal aspects of their job to shield themselves from how despicable the acts they're perpetuating really are. The film never exactly works the angle, and perhaps it's ridiculous to read so far outside the lines, but I had to wonder that agencies capable of capturing hundreds of supernatural abominations and possessing a level of technological power far, far in excess of the civilizations shown performing sacrifices in the credits apparently never seriously considered the idea of trying to subdue the "Elder Gods" rather than appease them. It's easier to maintain a despicable ritual than dare to consider going outside what worked before to get to something better.
Beyond the ever-popular pastime of torturing metaphors to serve our own purposes, I somewhat got the impression that someone or something might have been interfering with or sabotaging the ritual- the business with the tunnel and a mention of a power reroute alludes to this, but it never entirely gets resolved. I wonder if there was some plot thread that got dropped but never fully removed from the script.
No, I really didn't find the office staff sympathetic. And honestly, I don't think the film did, either. They're a bunch of Adolf Eichmanns, hiding behind the rote and banal aspects of their job to shield themselves from how despicable the acts they're perpetuating really are. The film never exactly works the angle, and perhaps it's ridiculous to read so far outside the lines, but I had to wonder that agencies capable of capturing hundreds of supernatural abominations and possessing a level of technological power far, far in excess of the civilizations shown performing sacrifices in the credits apparently never seriously considered the idea of trying to subdue the "Elder Gods" rather than appease them. It's easier to maintain a despicable ritual than dare to consider going outside what worked before to get to something better.
Beyond the ever-popular pastime of torturing metaphors to serve our own purposes, I somewhat got the impression that someone or something might have been interfering with or sabotaging the ritual- the business with the tunnel and a mention of a power reroute alludes to this, but it never entirely gets resolved. I wonder if there was some plot thread that got dropped but never fully removed from the script.
Thank you Bob for this article as I'm not particularly interested in seeing the film (don't like Horror and only reason I'd see it is Bradley Whitford is just awesome), but really interested in why everyone was making a fuss about it. I admit, going from your article, it probably would have gone over my head.
So the entire fanbase is insulting? How? I'm not a Mass Effect fan myself, but most of what I've seen out of the fan base is a demand to have the product they were supposed to get, something that didn't piss away all their countless hours of devotion. It's been pretty mature for the most part.Walter Byers said:
Bob hasn't even played the game and hasn't even bothered to full understand their grievenaces related to the ending of the game.
This whole article is pointless. It's based upon one instance of people not getting the point of Cabin in the Woods, an instance that I'm not quite sure even happened. Even if it did, it's one instance out of many. The public and the critics in general love this movie from everything that I've seen across the web. This just seemed like another excuse for the overly educated and smug jackass to sit on his high horse and mock people some more. Cabin in the Woods and Mass Effect 3 are nowhere close to being relatable. The endings for both of these media are not the same. One was clever and unexpected, the other was a "fuckk you" to those who paid for it. I'm sure you can guess which is which.
Okay, Bob, I get the desire to do away with narrative formula and cliche and blow the minds of the audience with something truly out of left field. I also get how some of the behavior displayed by disappointed fans could have been done in a much more cordial fashion. I get that.
Now what you seem to need to get, is that fans are bitching for a much bigger reason than 'we didn't get the ending we expected so wahh!' The ending to Mass Effect 3 is not (certainly in its current state) a work of genre redefining genius full of deep and profound symbolism. What it is is a lazy palette swap that leaves its audience asking more questions than the freaking Riddler, and that is completely devoid of any sense of accomplishment.
No, it doesn't have to be an ending we expect, but it does have to not completely shit all over 5 years of narrative consistency.
Now what you seem to need to get, is that fans are bitching for a much bigger reason than 'we didn't get the ending we expected so wahh!' The ending to Mass Effect 3 is not (certainly in its current state) a work of genre redefining genius full of deep and profound symbolism. What it is is a lazy palette swap that leaves its audience asking more questions than the freaking Riddler, and that is completely devoid of any sense of accomplishment.
No, it doesn't have to be an ending we expect, but it does have to not completely shit all over 5 years of narrative consistency.
I've tried to have meaningful conversations about Mass Effect 3 that didn't involve the ending (here and on other sites) and every single time it's been derailed by retakers. Yes, very mature. Do you just close your eyes to this behavior? Bury your head in the sand? It reminds me of a child who isn't having fun and doing their damnedest to make sure no one else does either.Fox242 said:
I was going to drop in here and say, "Bob, you missed the point.", but it looks like other people already called him out on it.
I'll just add this: I am a writer, and I appreciate a wide variety of media and genres. There is a difference between a bad ending and a broken ending. ME3 was a BROKEN ending. It did not fit, it did not function.
To compare it to Cabin, which had a brilliant, meta ending, is insulting to the move, the filmakers, and both audiences.
I'm not going to be pedantic and spell out why Cabin's ending worked. You're a smart guy, this is what you do for a living, there's no need. Nor will I rehash the (very tired) debates on ME3's ending. There are entire articles and videos done by people far more invested than I ever was into "why this fails at a basic level".
Yes, there are people who miss the ending of why Cabin existed, and who, in raging at the ticket counter (I saw this, it was hilarious) manage to BECOME the elder god's rising for blood.
Yes, there are people who were pissed at the end of ME3 because they didn't get formula happy-rainbows.
But the bulk of the objection to ME3's ending wasn't "this was bad", it was "this was broken", and there is a difference. One you don't like subjectively. One does not function on a basic level. The fact that the creators never offered up any cohesive defense of their ending, but only hid behind the blanket statement of "it is art" to ward criticism, should clearly show that many of the writers realize that it is not functioning at the level they'd wanted.
They're doing an Extended Cut. This may still leave the ending as a "bad" ending, which will piss a lot of people off, but it should HOPEFULLY resolve the problems of a "broken" ending, which created the Re-Take backlash.
EDIT: EXAMPLE INCOMING... There is a definite difference between, "I didn't like that ending", and "Jesus Christ, that ending just took a poop on every scene before it, and I feel guilty by proxy for witnessing it." I hated the ending of No Country for Old Men. It was grim, it was pointless, it was depressing... and that was the point of it, so I respected it immensely, even as I thought to myself, "that really sucks, I was hoping he'd make it out". I never had the urge to go online and complain about it, because it WORKED. Hell, I chuckle about how deep it cut me, because I was that invested. It made a point, it made a statement.
The best statement that ME3's ending managed to make was "herr derr" as it bungled its own continuity, its own themes, its own characters, its own... well, just about everything. Seriously, go watch the videos with an open mind. Better yet, Bob, go play the damn games, then comment on it, since you seem to lack the ability to change perspective on this type of issue without personally investing.
I'll just add this: I am a writer, and I appreciate a wide variety of media and genres. There is a difference between a bad ending and a broken ending. ME3 was a BROKEN ending. It did not fit, it did not function.
To compare it to Cabin, which had a brilliant, meta ending, is insulting to the move, the filmakers, and both audiences.
I'm not going to be pedantic and spell out why Cabin's ending worked. You're a smart guy, this is what you do for a living, there's no need. Nor will I rehash the (very tired) debates on ME3's ending. There are entire articles and videos done by people far more invested than I ever was into "why this fails at a basic level".
Yes, there are people who miss the ending of why Cabin existed, and who, in raging at the ticket counter (I saw this, it was hilarious) manage to BECOME the elder god's rising for blood.
Yes, there are people who were pissed at the end of ME3 because they didn't get formula happy-rainbows.
But the bulk of the objection to ME3's ending wasn't "this was bad", it was "this was broken", and there is a difference. One you don't like subjectively. One does not function on a basic level. The fact that the creators never offered up any cohesive defense of their ending, but only hid behind the blanket statement of "it is art" to ward criticism, should clearly show that many of the writers realize that it is not functioning at the level they'd wanted.
They're doing an Extended Cut. This may still leave the ending as a "bad" ending, which will piss a lot of people off, but it should HOPEFULLY resolve the problems of a "broken" ending, which created the Re-Take backlash.
EDIT: EXAMPLE INCOMING... There is a definite difference between, "I didn't like that ending", and "Jesus Christ, that ending just took a poop on every scene before it, and I feel guilty by proxy for witnessing it." I hated the ending of No Country for Old Men. It was grim, it was pointless, it was depressing... and that was the point of it, so I respected it immensely, even as I thought to myself, "that really sucks, I was hoping he'd make it out". I never had the urge to go online and complain about it, because it WORKED. Hell, I chuckle about how deep it cut me, because I was that invested. It made a point, it made a statement.
The best statement that ME3's ending managed to make was "herr derr" as it bungled its own continuity, its own themes, its own characters, its own... well, just about everything. Seriously, go watch the videos with an open mind. Better yet, Bob, go play the damn games, then comment on it, since you seem to lack the ability to change perspective on this type of issue without personally investing.
Cabin in the woods was a full-length in-joke at the audience's expense. It's another case of Whedon spending millions to metaphorically lean in and stage whisper to the audience "You see what I did there?"
Agreed, it was a GOOD full length in-joke, but you're giving too much credit to the hipsters who use films like Cabin and Sucker punch to try and prove that they're smarter than the 'mainstream' by treating the subject like it's some complex subtlety, when the only way they could have spooned it on any thicker is with industrial equipment.
And there is really only one way of saying this. Shut up about Mass Effect. Your continued diatribes are neither funny, clever, or particularly accurate or relevant. I've gone from going 'I wonder what Bob's got to say on this?' to 'How much of the article is going to be dedicated to anti-retake asspain?'
Agreed, it was a GOOD full length in-joke, but you're giving too much credit to the hipsters who use films like Cabin and Sucker punch to try and prove that they're smarter than the 'mainstream' by treating the subject like it's some complex subtlety, when the only way they could have spooned it on any thicker is with industrial equipment.
And there is really only one way of saying this. Shut up about Mass Effect. Your continued diatribes are neither funny, clever, or particularly accurate or relevant. I've gone from going 'I wonder what Bob's got to say on this?' to 'How much of the article is going to be dedicated to anti-retake asspain?'