Real Black Ops Guy Discusses Violence in Games

CCountZero

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The perfect game, in Hammersmith's opinion, would emulate a combat environment to teach gamers how to really act in such a situation. "I think games can wield people's attention, and maybe even teach them how to wield their own attention," he said. "Let's have a way to shut off auto-aim and extra lives, and having infinite ammo, and let's find a way to turn off the radar so you don't know where your opponent is. Let's have a game that allows you to use more of a field, to do things that make tactical sense."

I'm not sure that a game like that would be fun for everybody, but I'm pretty sure the purists would eat it up.
That type of game already exists, and it's called ArmA 2.
It's not perfect, but the ACE modders are slowly but surely making it so.

It's perfectly true that it's not for everyone though.

For one thing, you need a lot of pre-session work to script the map to work to your desires.
It's possible to do it on the fly, with a player acting as a sort of "dungeon master", but it's definetely not optimal, and opens up the possibility of "cheating" in order to survive an encounter you might otherwise not.

You also need quite a lot of players to really get things going. You can make a scenario featuring eight mechanized guys patrolling a road if you want to, or a Special Ops mission under cover of night, but the real fun lies in 50+ scenarios with CAS and Armor backing you up.

Despite that, I know I have fun playing it. "There's a soldier in all of us."
 

VirusHunter

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Svenparty said:
I want a war game where you kill some foreigners,suffer extreme mental issues and finally die pointlessly. Would probably be a lot more enjoyable than CoD
Halo Reach
 

GRoXERs

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Greg Tito said:
Born into a miltary family where his father shot bullets at him when he was 8 to desensitize him, Hammersmith was uniquely suited to life in the Corps.
Now hang on a second. That was fucked. up. when it happened to Hit Girl in Kick-Ass... and this guy's dad actually did it in real life? That's child abuse! Not to mention reckless endangerment! WHAT THE HELL!
 

CCountZero

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Svenparty said:
At the moment a LOT of Call of Duty players most likely think that the franchise is already teaching them how to act in such a situation. Too many idiots will try and join the army because of CoD in the future and it's a great way to gain cannon fodder.
To be frank, if "a LOT of Call of Duty players" are actually so out of contact with reality, then maybe that's not such a bad thing. I know that sounds cynical and perhaps downright malicious, but at least it might force parents and society to rethink our methods of educating these people, seeing as how they clearly weren't getting their money's worth.

Man is conservative, and as such it usually takes drastic means to make us rethink our ways.
 

Svenparty

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CCountZero said:
Svenparty said:
At the moment a LOT of Call of Duty players most likely think that the franchise is already teaching them how to act in such a situation. Too many idiots will try and join the army because of CoD in the future and it's a great way to gain cannon fodder.
To be frank, if "a LOT of Call of Duty players" are actually so out of contact with reality, then maybe that's not such a bad thing. I know that sounds cynical and perhaps downright malicious, but at least it might force parents and society to rethink our methods of educating these people, seeing as how they clearly weren't getting their money's worth.

Man is conservative, and as such it usually takes drastic means to make us rethink our ways.
Lol yes...I agree although the developers aren't exactly making it easy on the impressionable...Most(if not all) levels of CoD are fantasy worlds where you rid the world of "terrorists" and blow things up awesomely.

Sometimes I wonder if it's a big scam to get the numbers up, especially since the Developers have strong links with real army orgs.
 
Mar 26, 2008
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Atmos Duality said:
Most war veterans I've met (who saw/participated in combat) scarcely talk about those experiences even decades after the fact. And I know far too many retired soldiers (they all moved to these little armpit suburbs).

Personally, I feel lucky to not have to live in "the moment" every day of my life.
Yeah both my grandfathers who served during WWII never much spoke about it, and when they did they usually got a bit emotional over the loss of their friends (although being old-school Aussie men they'd stifle the tears). My dad was born after his father returned from war and he says that the way his older brothers talk about how his own father was before he went to war it's like they are talking about a different person.

I remember one of them telling me that people don't "die clean" like they do in the movies. He said the truth was a lot more brutal; with them fighting for their last breaths, bleeding all over the place and convulsing.
 

SenseOfTumour

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Bah this ARMA sounds soft, needs a hardcore mode. If you die in game it deletes your install and invalidates your CD key. Now that would make you be careful :D

However, as for gamers wanting to shoot at virtual people, I remember being about 5 back in the late 70s, and chasing my friends around the garden with a stuck out index finger shouting 'BANG' and I imagine in America, 'cowboys and indians' tended to be played outside by young kids way before Atari and Nintendo came along.

I'm just saying , there's something deep down in our core that makes us want to pretend at least to be competitive killers, that is then moderated by something else, society? parenting? I'm not sure. Video games sure didn't invent the idea of wanting to pretend to kill our friends however.

It's damned good to read of someone noticing that most gamers can string a sentence together and respect what the soldiers do for us all however.

I'll repeat what was said above, why do the politicians not speak to the veterans, or the gamers themselves, tho sadly, I'm sure they'd carefully select the worst kind of nutty gamer to talk to.
 
Mar 30, 2010
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Atmos Duality said:
Grouchy Imp said:
Greg Tito said:
...his father shot bullets at him when he was 8 to desensitize him...
Err, I don't quite know what to say... ... ... ... that's f*cked up. That having been said, his operational record speaks for itself; so maybe paternal craziness was paternal genius after all.
The best soldiers are those who don't let themselves become distracted by anything.
As romanticized as military life has become, real combat rewards the calm combatant; not the passionate one.
The people who are so desensitized that they will not panic at the sight of blood or the sound of gunfire.
True, but all I'm saying is that there's a world of difference between desensitising a 16 year old recruit who has signed up for military service and shooting at an 8 year old boy.
 

TheXRatedDodo

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Arma 2 is a shit sandwich in many ways and pure gold in many others. Unfortunately, even if I'm finding gold nuggets in said shit sandwich, I'm still eating far too much shit for it to be worth the trouble.

What I'm saying is that in my opinion games such as Arma 2 would sell better, be more widely played and widely respected if they were released with some goddamn polish.
Yes, I realise Bohemia Interactive are a small team making massively innovative games (Arma 2's AI and open world is mindblowing, truly) but there is no excuse for needing 8 bloody clicks and mouse scrolls and all other manner of things to give my squad an order to "GO OVER THERE"

Games like Arma 2 are MADE by their CORE MECHANICS. How does the shooting feel, the running, maneuvering, etc. The reason people play Arma is for that very reason, excellent core mechanics.
But once you go beyond the core moving aiming shooting stuff, the game becomes labyrinthe and needlessly so at that.

If the game took the radial menus of the console Rainbow Six titles and the new Op Flashpoint and used things like that in place of its current scroll click scroll left click right click scroll blah blah blah blah system, it would improve tenfold immediately.

The radial menu system in itself is probably often percieved as being "casual" by the Arma crowd, but the system itself isn't casual, just the context and usage.
Things like this would go a long way towards games like Arma being viable as a playable game for people aside from hardcore simulation guys.
They may be able to put up with inpenetrable interfaces, but the rest of us demand a little more polish from our games.

I should not have to jump through hoops to PLAY the damn game.
So someone needs to make the game I have just described and THEN point it out to this dude.

PS rainbow six vegas' radial menu system integration really was a thing of beauty
 

Atmos Duality

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Grouchy Imp said:
True, but all I'm saying is that there's a world of difference between desensitising a 16 year old recruit who has signed up for military service and shooting at an 8 year old boy.
I grew up near a prairie preserve, and there was a firing range close to my house.
While I didn't have bullets shot at me, I did get used to the sound of gunfire.

Still, I'm not questioning the insanity behind shooting at an 8-year old; I'm just thinking of the perspective one might get.
 

Atmos Duality

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SenseOfTumour said:
Bah this ARMA sounds soft, needs a hardcore mode. If you die in game it deletes your install and invalidates your CD key. Now that would make you be careful :D
The very first Microsoft Flight Simulator caused your computer to hard-crash if you crashed the plane.
I'm not joking.
 

Srkkl

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I'm not under the delusion that combat/war based games are realistic, or that they could teach me anything useful in the battlefield if I so choose to be there. I also don't want them to turn into that. I don't want to die from one bullet when I play Call of Duty or have any other "realistic" features meant to teach "future soldiers." They are games, I play them for fun. However a more interactive enviroment would be cool.
 

jvsquare

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I'm surprised no one has mentioned old-school Rainbow Six or Ghost Recon. You know, the games that first introduced one-shot one-kill and realistic tactics and weapons. How memories fade...
 

Speakercone

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saito82 said:
Operation Flashpoint...we spent a whole night on a single mission at one lan party...you get shot in that game and its over
agreed. I love that gaining superior position on an enemy actually matters in this game :)
we've come a long way since counterstrike :)