Rebecca Black's new single.

[Pyro Paul]

Now I'm sorry if that offends your superior sensibilities because it's applied to a person you don't approve of but that's the way definitions work. They don't care about your personal sensibilities.

No, the way you weild your 'knowledge', or lack there of, is what offends me.

You google up or dictionary.com a word and use it as absolute fact completely disregarding the Rules of the English Language in the process.

Then instead of comprehending, you fight it.

'Special meaning inferior'? Really?
Even though every single definition, every single usage, every single description in the english language of the word is used to denote 'of higher quality' you pull this out of no where and don't explain even where it came from? Even the few contrived instances you could argue as to it meaning 'inferior' are incorrect usage and only negative through implicit means rather then directly having a negative meaning.

but you know what?
lets just kill the argument this way.

PROFESSIONAL EMPLOYEE
(12) The term "professional employee" means -
(a) any employee engaged in work (i) predominantly intellectual and varied in character as opposed to routine mental, manual, mechanical, or physical work; (ii) involving the consistent exercise of discretion and judgment in its performance; (iii) of such a character that the output produced or the result accomplished cannot be standardized in relation to a given period of time; (iv) requiring knowledge of an advanced type in a field of science or learning customarily acquired by a prolonged course of specialized intellectual instruction and study in an institution of higher learning or a hospital, as distinguished from a general academic education or from an apprenticeship or from training in the performance of routine mental, manual, or physical processes; or (b) any employee, who (i) has completed the courses of specialized intellectual instruction and study described in clause (iv) of paragraph (a), and (ii) is performing related work under the supervision of a professional person to qualify himself to become a professional employee as defined in paragraph (a).

Title 29 United States Code, Sec. 152.

i'll probably cringe in the manner which you try and mutilate this definition to fit your own idea... but what the hell. take a swing at it.

 

[Hagi]

Now I'm sorry if that offends your superior sensibilities because it's applied to a person you don't approve of but that's the way definitions work. They don't care about your personal sensibilities.

No, the way you weild your 'knowledge', or lack there of, is what offends me.

You google up or dictionary.com a word and use it as absolute fact completely disregarding the Rules of the English Language in the process.

Then instead of comprehending, you fight it.

'Special meaning inferior'? Really?
Even though every single definition, every single usage, every single description in the english language of the word is used to denote 'of higher quality' you pull this out of no where and don't explain even where it came from? Even the few contrived instances you could argue as to it meaning 'inferior' are incorrect usage and only negative through implicit means rather then directly having a negative meaning.

but you know what?
lets just kill the argument this way.

PROFESSIONAL EMPLOYEE
(12) The term "professional employee" means -
(a) any employee engaged in work (i) predominantly intellectual and varied in character as opposed to routine mental, manual, mechanical, or physical work; (ii) involving the consistent exercise of discretion and judgment in its performance; (iii) of such a character that the output produced or the result accomplished cannot be standardized in relation to a given period of time; (iv) requiring knowledge of an advanced type in a field of science or learning customarily acquired by a prolonged course of specialized intellectual instruction and study in an institution of higher learning or a hospital, as distinguished from a general academic education or from an apprenticeship or from training in the performance of routine mental, manual, or physical processes; or (b) any employee, who (i) has completed the courses of specialized intellectual instruction and study described in clause (iv) of paragraph (a), and (ii) is performing related work under the supervision of a professional person to qualify himself to become a professional employee as defined in paragraph (a).

Title 29 United States Code, Sec. 152.

i'll probably cringe in the manner which you try and mutilate this definition to fit your own idea... but what the hell. take a swing at it.

It's music. An artistic medium. It can't be standardized.

You can't make a standard out of a human voice like you can with manufactured products.

Even if heavily auto-tuned there's no such thing as a standard human voice. Nor is there such a thing as standard lyrics. Even if they're both horrible they're still not standardized.

And there's definitely no such thing as standardized music or art, that's the whole point of art. That it's not standardized. It an expression of emotion. No matter how horrible the expression and how shallow the emotion.

And disregarding the rules of the English language? Really? Written language has 2 parts to it rules:
- Semantics: the meaning of individual words, or definitions.
- Grammar: the way individual words can be combined into sentences.

I'm simply following the rules of semantics. A word has a definition. It's not difficult.

I've given you the definition of professional before, it's not incomprehensible. Just follow that definition to it's logical conclusion instead of coming up with increasingly irrelevant other issues.

 

[frans909]

vocal-only singers are musicians too. It doesn't make a difference whether or not he can also play an instrument.

If you're counting Justin Bieber as a musician, then there's no reason you can't call Rebecca Black a musician.

Sure, and you can call someone who whistles yankee doodle a musician too.

:facepalm:

 

[CODE-D]

prefer nappa
<youtube=KOqIngh_-_A>

 

[zehydra]

vocal-only singers are musicians too. It doesn't make a difference whether or not he can also play an instrument.

If you're counting Justin Bieber as a musician, then there's no reason you can't call Rebecca Black a musician.

Sure, and you can call someone who whistles yankee doodle a musician too.

:facepalm:

my point was that using your voice (well) can be as difficult as mastering an instrument.

You're a musician if you make music. That's it. It's kind of like with the label of "gamer".

However, a GOOD musician is either someone who comes up with creative, original songs, or someone who performs music VERY WELL.

Someone who whistles yankee doodle isn't really showing off their greatest vocal skills. However, if someone whistled Rush's YYZ with perfect pitch, THAT'd be impressive.

Only those who have never really tried to sing fail to understand that the voice is basically another instrument.

 

[alandavidson]

Snip

My God, what is this awful noise in my ears? Oh right, it's produced by Victor Records. The only good bands they've produced are Hawthorne Heights and Straylight Run.

 

[Pyro Paul]

PROFESSIONAL EMPLOYEE
(12) The term "professional employee" means -
any employee engaged in work of such a character that the output produced or the result accomplished cannot be standardized in relation to a given period of time

It's music. An artistic medium. It can't be standardized.

You can't make a standard out of a human voice like you can with manufactured products.

Even if heavily auto-tuned there's no such thing as a standard human voice. Nor is there such a thing as standard lyrics. Even if they're both horrible they're still not standardized.

And there's definitely no such thing as standardized music or art, that's the whole point of art. That it's not standardized. It an expression of emotion. No matter how horrible the expression and how shallow the emotion.

And disregarding the rules of the English language? Really? Written language has 2 parts to it rules:
- Semantics: the meaning of individual words, or definitions.
- Grammar: the way individual words can be combined into sentences.

I'm simply following the rules of semantics. A word has a definition. It's not difficult.

I've given you the definition of professional before, it's not incomprehensible. Just follow that definition to it's logical conclusion instead of coming up with increasingly irrelevant other issues.

Incorrect.
Cherry picking a single word out of a sentence to define the rest of the statement is now how the english language works.

see, if you understood basic english
'...standardized in relation to...'
is a statement and should be considered as a whole.
As to its meaning... well that means that the individual would not be able to reach the 'standard' in alotted time required for it to be accomplished.

as for ' no such thing as standardized music ' statement...
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/A440_(pitch_standard)

yes... yes it can be. and it has.
Codified by the International Organization for Standardization title 16 'Acoustics -- standard tuning frequency (standard musical pitch)'

It is funny because you say you're following the rules of Semantics (although semantics don't define words, they help you understand the meaning beind words and statements) and do so by completely disregarding Grammar (the rules of which language is built on).

yes, you've given your definition of professional.
and i've stated it is wrong and provided another conflicting definition which is supported by the United States Code of Law.

I then went on to argue against the point of the definition to disprove it:
Professional Grade, Professional Criminal, Professional Resume... all of which don't get paid.
Dismantling the word to its base meaning, professional>Person of Profession>Person of a vocation that requires skill/training.
Professional Certification (photography, computer repair, automotive maintance).
base definition Profession paid for Skill > Occupation paid for Time (supported that the artist has to pay for the time to use a stage, concert hall, or even recording studio)

and yet, you disregard all of these and argue semantics over individual words in each statement.

i'm sure again, you'll argue the fininte meaning of 'certification' or something.

 

[gyroscopeboy]

Its just as bad. Sure she doesn't sound as nasally but what wonders editing can do.

I'm sure it sounds just like this when you take that fancy crap out.

Haha thats super fucking awesome!

A producer I do a lot of work for could pretty much mould that into an actually believable vocal performance..such is the power of Melodyn and Protools.

 

[Hagi]

Incorrect.
Cherry picking a single word out of a sentence to define the rest of the statement is now how the english language works.

see, if you understood basic english
'...standardized in relation to...'
is a statement and should be considered as a whole.
As to its meaning... well that means that the individual would not be able to reach the 'standard' in alotted time required for it to be accomplished.

as for ' no such thing as standardized music ' statement...
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/A440_(pitch_standard)

yes... yes it can be. and it has.
Codified by the International Organization for Standardization title 16 'Acoustics -- standard tuning frequency (standard musical pitch)'

It is funny because you say you're following the rules of Semantics (although semantics don't define words, they help you understand the meaning beind words and statements) and do so by completely disregarding Grammar (the rules of which language is built on).

yes, you've given your definition of professional.
and i've stated it is wrong and provided another conflicting definition which is supported by the United States Code of Law.

I then went on to argue against the point of the definition to disprove it:
Professional Grade, Professional Criminal, Professional Resume... all of which don't get paid.
Dismantling the word to its base meaning, professional>Person of Profession>Person of a vocation that requires skill/training.
Professional Certification (photography, computer repair, automotive maintance).
base definition Profession paid for Skill > Occupation paid for Time (supported that the artist has to pay for the time to use a stage, concert hall, or even recording studio)

and yet, you disregard all of these and argue semantics over individual words in each statement.

i'm sure again, you'll argue the fininte meaning of 'certification' or something.

Do you even know what you linked?

"it has served as the audio frequency reference for the calibration of acoustic equipment and the tuning of pianos, violins, and other musical instruments."

It's a note for tuning musical instruments.

It's not a standard for human voices. There is no standard for song or music.

A musical instrument can be standardized, the music played on it can not.

Next time read the page you link first please.

As for your examples:
- Professional criminals are criminals who earn enough money through their crime to support their livelihoods.
- Grades and Resumes aren't people. The definition of professional we're arguing about is the one that relates to people. As in professional artist. You even quoted the US law of the definition relating to people, so why are you bringing grades and resumes into this?

Seriously, you're grasping at straws here. It's not working. Is it really so hard to admit that you were mistaken?

 

[joemegson94]

Rebecca Black is like a scrounging dog - if we don't give her our attention and chips, she'll piss off.

 

[Tim_Buoy]

Still not as much of a cancer to music as Design the Skyline is.

Oh god...anything besides Design the Skyline is good.

For those of you who don't know who they are, here's the abortion that is Design the Skyline:

OT: Her new song is still bad, but it's good compared to Friday.

That seems a bit like HORSE The Band had a bastard child with Asking Alexandria and The Devil Wears Prada was a sperm donor. . .I can't say I would classify them as an "abortion", but certainly an. . .acquired. . .taste.

I usually like that general genre, but they seem to be reveling in their "strange" factor and keyboard/synths a bit too much. And pig squeals for the sake of pig squeals aren't really good.

try theese guys out a friend showed them to me a couple of days back
blood stain child

 

[Coffinshaker]

seriously guys... the poor kid's only 14 with a terrible studio. she's not writing the songs. so cut her some slack. sure, it's not the best out there... but given the crud all these kids listen to now, it sure isn't any worse. >)

 

[frans909]

Only those who have never really tried to sing fail to understand that the voice is basically another instrument.

I think you're confusing a voice with Autotune.

 

[zehydra]

Only those who have never really tried to sing fail to understand that the voice is basically another instrument.

I think you're confusing a voice with Autotune.

no, Autotune is a software configuration that takes the voice's pitch and sets it to fixed pitches, often used for artists which cannot sing on pitch otherwise.

One's vocal chords ARE an instrument, ask any talented vocalist.

 

[frans909]

Only those who have never really tried to sing fail to understand that the voice is basically another instrument.

I think you're confusing a voice with Autotune.

no, Autotune is a software configuration that takes the voice's pitch and sets it to fixed pitches, often used for artists which cannot sing on pitch otherwise.

Yeah yeah and it was originally developed as a seismographic instrument and bla bla bla bla bla. Nowadays it's actually used more often as an effect (and a crappy one at that, but the Rebecca Black generation seems to enjoy it, as do the black eyed peas. Must be in the "black" i suppose).

One's vocal chords ARE an instrument, ask any talented vocalist.

You don't have to ask a talented vocalist. Maybe if you want a demonstration. Anyway, Rebecca Black might be an artist, but she's most definitely not a musician.

 

[Nouw]

After watching the video, I feel a bit depressed. The song is badly written and totally forgettable, but it so clearly proves that she thinks that "Friday" was popular because it was a good song, which it fucking wasn't, as anyone with the slightest bit of taste in music should be aware of. She clearly doesn't understand the the only reason that "Friday" was popular was because it was so hilariously awful in every way, that you couldn't help but laugh at it. This new single is aimed at her "haters" (everyone in the world except the 12 people in the world with blunt objects lodged in their skulls who thought Friday was a great song) and she honestly seems to think she has talent in music. That fact alone is almost as hilariously stupid as Friday.

She knows all of this and is doing it on purpose. It's a common way of making money in the music industry, just ask BonsaiK.

 

[WaReloaded]

Still not as much of a cancer to music as Design the Skyline is.

Amen, although, Bring Me The Horizon are just as bad.

 

[zehydra]

Only those who have never really tried to sing fail to understand that the voice is basically another instrument.

I think you're confusing a voice with Autotune.

no, Autotune is a software configuration that takes the voice's pitch and sets it to fixed pitches, often used for artists which cannot sing on pitch otherwise.

Yeah yeah and it was originally developed as a seismographic instrument and bla bla bla bla bla. Nowadays it's actually used more often as an effect (and a crappy one at that, but the Rebecca Black generation seems to enjoy it, as do the black eyed peas. Must be in the "black" i suppose).

One's vocal chords ARE an instrument, ask any talented vocalist.

You don't have to ask a talented vocalist. Maybe if you want a demonstration. Anyway, Rebecca Black might be an artist, but she's most definitely not a musician.

How can she not be a musician, if the art she produces as an artist is music? She might be a shitty musician, but a musician nonetheless.

 

[ProfessorLayton]

It's actually not bad. Maybe it's because I've recently been getting really big into pop music, but I feel that people who hate it are mostly hating it because they think they're supposed to because of her name.

Either way, no matter how bad you think the song is, she's making money off of it and it's a whole lot better than Friday. And it's funny because this song is pretty much about how everyone tries to bring her down but she's just laughing it off and making money off of hate. She's like the more successful version of Lil B.

I really like her attitude and the song isn't that bad. Though saying this on what is essentially a metal forum is kind of pointless.

EDIT: Also, all this autotune hate nonsense needs to stop. I'm a huge fan of Kanye West's 808's and Heartbreak and that's pretty much the perfect example of how autotune not only can make a song sound better but makes the song stand out. None of you would write off Peter Frampton for using his talk box, would you? Autotune is an instrument all to itself and if it sounds good, why does what's making the sound matter?

 

[LarenzoAOG]

Still not as much of a cancer to music as Design the Skyline is.

Oh god...anything besides Design the Skyline is good.

For those of you who don't know who they are, here's the abortion that is Design the Skyline:

OT: Her new song is still bad, but it's good compared to Friday.

That was litterally the worst thing I've ever heard, it's like they took a bunch of parts from shitty songs and put them together in a way that makes absolutely no sense to any one.