Red Cross Investigating Virtual War Crimes

[tsb247]

This is officially the stupidest thing I have EVER heard!

Really? Are we trying to apply a moral and ethical code to completely fictional non-sentient NPCs?

The very idea behind this is ridiculous at best, and the fact that money and energy is being expended to even discuss whether of not IHL should be applied to video games is absolutely idiotic.

I think I am going to go fire up ArmA II and go on a scorched-earth campaign against Chedaki insurgents. That will show my feelings on the matter. I will leave no building standing, and I will take no prisoners!

 

[brazuca]

I found this quite compelling to debate in games (speceally warfare games). We see too much violence, video game soldiers take war like a fun adventure. They murder 200 people and not only stay ok with it, most of the time using ilegal tatics or sooo extreme that not even the military would use. Example, shooting directly with a .50 cal to infantry.

Sorry, have you ever seen Commando? Die Hard? Literally any action film from the 80's?

It's exaggeration for the sake of entertainment; people play these games for the same reasons they watch the films: escapism.

Anyone who see's this stuff and then goes mental with a gun had serious problems well before they started playing games.

Oh, and if you think the military is overzealous in CoD, wait til you see what the guy from Dead Space does with the tools that were only sanctioned for engineering purposes.

As moviebob said here: http://www.screwattack.com/shows/partners/game-overthinker/game-overthinker-episode-59-bat-slap and here: http://www.screwattack.com/shows/partners/game-overthinker/game-overthinker-episode-57-supreme-responsibility

You could watch it. It's an incovinient truth about how games are becoming more and more imature, not bad, but when a stereotype becomes reality it is kind sad.

 

[draythefingerless]

The world is at its most peaceful now, more than ever, if you discount the recent termoils in africa and asia with the rebellions, wich are more or less settling down. So, whats this about relative peace? We are, in relation to the history ofthe world, at its most peaceful.

Did your teacher tell you that, and you just swallowed it whole. Or did you pull it straight out of your ass? How could you even say that, seriously?

"Everything is fine, go back to bed. Nothing is wrong, we are at peace. Human rights violations are not as bad as they once were. -Jedi Mind Trick- Go back to sleep."

Well to answer to that i really have to go into what you think peace is. Crime numbers? war numbers? in terms of ratio, there are less people dying and with higher quality of life levels than ever before. aka, you have less a chance of dying and more of a chance to hae a good life today, than in the past. youre the one who said relative peace. im not saying that we are optimal o at good levels of peace n prosperity, but compared with the past, were the best so far, and its prolly continue to get better. im unsure as to wether there are more wars or not, but im pretty sure there wasnt such a thing called human rights back in the old days. so you can say human rights are being broken here n there, at least nowadays such a standard exists. back in the old days before those, you could pretty much fuck up anyone and everyone ina country if youre in a war. and even if youre not in a war.

 

[Terminal Blue]

I can see a real point here, but I rather think it's been lost.

Firstly, while there's no evidence that media violence has a significant effect on civilians, there is significant anecdotal evidence that it exposure to media depictions of war and combat influences how people view real combat situations. Being in combat for the first time is incredibly hyper-real for a lot of soldiers. The words 'it was like a movie' are extremely common.

Games about war, in particular, need to be careful to be sensitive. We've seen this issue covered before, this is merely the first time the Red Cross has become involved.

The Red Cross didn't even come out with anything concrete, they just discussed the issue and frankly it's probably time someone did. Why the hell are you all sitting here whining about them stealing your right to imagination when you're trying to steal their right to speak at their own fucking conference.

It was brought to light in the book The Clash of Civilizations. Here is what poli sci and history students think of it: Its BS. There is no reason for this to be inevitable, but saying that it is inevitable makes it a self-fulfilling prophecy.

High five for this.

Seriously, fuck Samuel Huntingdon. He's made a career out of selling the US government thinly veiled racism.

 

[jawakiller]

I totally support this. I also support police giving speeding tickets to people playing need for speed. Oh, and I also think players should go to jail for not paying their bills in the sims. All logical.

One question though.

When the International Committee of the Red Cross has something to say, does anybody give a fuck?

 

[jawakiller]

3. The US was in a "real war" for sure 55 years ago in Korea, and Vietnam was a "real war". If Vietnam wasn't a "real war" (because of guerrilla tactics) for you, than I deny that the Western Front of WWI was a "real war" because it involved a lot of do-nothing attrition. The effects of combatants is the same.

Vietnam was not a legitimate war due to the tactics the U.S used, not the N.A.

If it had been a real war the objectives would have been different and the outcome would have also been changed. The goal was to keep back the enemy, not win a factual war. Many historians and tacticians have argued that this is why we lost. Not due to the NVA being a bunch of Rambo badasses but because the United States was going through a bunch of shit at the time and couldn't invade North Vietnam.


I could be mixing this up with the other war (Korea) but I'm pretty sure it was Vietnam.

 

[thublihnk]

Obviously the Red Cross has no power to STOP war crimes in video games, but hey does anyone else think it's nice that maybe someone is saying that war crimes shouldn't be encouraged in mass media?

I dunno. I think that's pretty rad.

 

[Beryl77]

The Geneva Convention was made to protect humans even during war, which is a good thing but I've never seen someone actually getting killed in a videogame. If someone actually gets killed or tortured in a war game like MW then I will agree with what the Red Cross says.
But that has never been the case yet, so it's just silly and limits the creativity of game devs.

 

[Dr. Crawver]

What a bunch of pathetic morons. They just want to take the fun out of everything. Go spend your time and money on things that mater you useless cunts.

...seriously, do you not know what the red cross do?

I disagree with them on this one, but to say that they try to take the fun out of everything or are useless cunts?

So stopping you from experimenting on real people who are POW is taking the fun out of war?

Tending to the wounded of battle is being useless?

This isn't some government wing, this is an international body that try to maintain peace where they can. This is a incredibly tangential for them, but I don't think anyone would say they're useless

 

[Draconalis]

With the current generation of recruits being raised on FPSs, shouldn't game developers at least acknowledge that there are certain rules about what you simply can't do to the enemy?

That's what boot camp and other military training is for.

 

[maxben]

Vietnam was not a legitimate war due to the tactics the U.S used, not the N.A.

If it had been a real war the objectives would have been different and the outcome would have also been changed. The goal was to keep back the enemy, not win a factual war. Many historians and tacticians have argued that this is why we lost. Not due to the NVA being a bunch of Rambo badasses but because the United States was going through a bunch of shit at the time and couldn't invade North Vietnam.


I could be mixing this up with the other war (Korea) but I'm pretty sure it was Vietnam.

That's a fair point, I just assumed he meant from the Vietnamese side as "not a real war" is usually thrown in a guerilla war situation.
What you are referring to is that the Soviets and Maoists immediately landed support in North Vietnam ion case of an American attack,
In Korea, China sent in its forces AFTER the war started, leading to a stalemate that partitioned the country. America knew it couldn't attack the North and gain even half if the Soviets and Chinese were already entrenched there.

 

[MASTACHIEFPWN]

How about the geneva convention's rules are applied to real war, then we'll talk.

 

[Use_Imagination_here]

Are you people fucking serious? Are you gonna ban fucking books from descripting violence?

In the progress of this did anyone actually sit down and think, "are the games actually hurting anybody?".

 

[CapitalistPig]

Riddle me this, if the U.N decrees something does it make a sound when its being enacted? These are video games here. They are meant to entertain. Go ahead and try to argue against the fact that violence is the most entertaining thing throughout human history. AND don't use junk science speculative correlations to prove it. I'll give you a hint, a history book will prove you wrong. More importantly i'd like to point out this is a waste of man hours. People actually get paid to think about this stuff and never have to produce any real results. Some stupid enactment could pass and everyone gets a slap on the back for a job well done well i say BOLLOCKS to that my fine internet commentators. In a world with real problems that need real solutions we should really focus our minds on other more informative topics. THIS is best reserved for after idk......world hunger is solved? but ill settle for after we can create a governing body that isn't out to make us all look so stupid as to gobble this crap up.

 

[Kanatatsu]

has the red cross run out of shit to do!?

 

[Gunjester]

Apply it to every other medium first.
Otherwise it doesn't make sense.

 

[rob_simple]

I found this quite compelling to debate in games (speceally warfare games). We see too much violence, video game soldiers take war like a fun adventure. They murder 200 people and not only stay ok with it, most of the time using ilegal tatics or sooo extreme that not even the military would use. Example, shooting directly with a .50 cal to infantry.

Sorry, have you ever seen Commando? Die Hard? Literally any action film from the 80's?

It's exaggeration for the sake of entertainment; people play these games for the same reasons they watch the films: escapism.

Anyone who see's this stuff and then goes mental with a gun had serious problems well before they started playing games.

Oh, and if you think the military is overzealous in CoD, wait til you see what the guy from Dead Space does with the tools that were only sanctioned for engineering purposes.

As moviebob said here: http://www.screwattack.com/shows/partners/game-overthinker/game-overthinker-episode-59-bat-slap and here: http://www.screwattack.com/shows/partners/game-overthinker/game-overthinker-episode-57-supreme-responsibility

You could watch it. It's an incovinient truth about how games are becoming more and more imature, not bad, but when a stereotype becomes reality it is kind sad.

Like everything else, you can't tar an entire medium with the same brush. But even if every game was a ridiculous chainsaw-on-the-end-of-a-machinegun slaughterfest I don't care because I possess the ability to separate reality from video games.

Games don't need to be mature as long as they are fun. Likewise just because a game is mature doesn't mean it isn't enjoyable.

Games like CoD and GoW are the Rambos of the video game industry: they shouldn't be taken seriously; they should just be enjoyed for the adrenaline fueled ride that they were intended to be.

If you want a somber, thought-provoking affair play a game like Silent Hill 2 or Shadow of the Colossus.

I love all types of games, so I'll be damned if anyone is going to tell me I shouldn't be enjoying one type of shooter just because it doesn't take itself as seriously as people think it should.

 

[ElPatron]

So players in Last Stand already have a unfair advantage, now we can't shoot them any more?

 

[emeraldrafael]

Oh, they'd hate me for what I did to the African and Asian population in risk.

more seriously though, I think this is jsut going to far.

 

[soulfire130]

Then everyone that played that airport level in MW2: you're likely now a war criminal. Congratulations!