Yeah, I'm gonna go with this as well. Obviously we're all addicted to judging, but we might as well try to be accurate about the substance of the thing.Ogoid said:Well. I never watched any of the guy's videos before, or had more than a tangential idea of who he was and what he did. Having looked into this, though?
His joke was ill-conceived. People have a right to be upset, and Disney was fully within its rights to cease working with him.
That said... I would call the reporting that brought this on a complete disgrace to journalism as whole, if I hadn't sadly learned, over a couple of years now, that that kind of spiteful, agenda-driven, click-baiting yellow trash is mostly what passes for it these days.
But they do. If you hire a comedian - expect him to make jokes. If you dont want jokes - dont hire a comedian. Hiring a comedian and then firing him for doing his job is nonsense. But then, this is Disney, despite doing thie best to look like child friendly happy company they are actually one of the worst companies in the world and i expect no less from them.RedDeadFred said:I find it pretty funny that people think the companies have some moral obligation to take a joke despite it potentially damaging their bottom line. OBVIOUSLY they know it's a joke. That doesn't matter. It's not about what the companies know, it's about what their consumers believe. Do you think a bunch of parents who are oblivious to internet culture are brushing it off? No, they were probably screeching about never taking little Johnny to Disney World ever again.
Do people seriously think this was some reactionary decision because poor little indie company, Disney, got their precious feelings hurt?
Gotta love how everyone think they're a CEO and obviously KNOWS better than the huge company with tons of advisers that makes billions of dollars.
At least I got a chuckle out of it.
Firing somone for practicing free speech on his personal channel is by definition censorship. It would be like firing someone for voting Trump, which too btw happened.Vigormortis said:That and apparently some jackass YouTuber, after making a distasteful and extraordinarily offensive joke, is just exercising his rights to free speech, but a company of people are practicing 'CENSORSHIP!!1!' when they dare to disassociate themselves with said YouTuber for making that joke.
Hypocrisy at its finest.
He was accused of being anti-semite and endorsing nazis. To support this accusation TWSJ used even material in which PDP was making fun of these accusations by showing how he'd look as nazi supporter. These are false baseless accusations.Robert B. Marks said:Here's the thing, though - he WASN'T falsely accused. Regardless of if he was doing it to be edgy and funny (and failed miserably), or if he was secretly a neo-Nazi who was trying to sneak a violently antisemitic message out, he DID pay people to hold up signs advocating violence against Jews, and he DID put that on his channel. That he framed it as a prank does not change these facts.Jamcie Kerbizz said:[snip]Robert B. Marks said:I hate to point this out, but neo-Nazis and white supremacists held a gathering in Washington after Trump's election wherein they shouted "Hail victory! Hail Trump!" while doing a Nazi salute.Chareater said:Nobody is going to think Pewdiepie is being serious.... Don't pull that shit.Robert B. Marks said:Felix, however, was paying people to spread violently antisemitic messages, and even if he isn't a neo-Nazi, and those he paid are just people who would do anything for money, there are very real neo-Nazis out there who might act on that message he just spread.
(Source: http://billmoyers.com/story/mr-11-21-white-nationalists-heil-victory-police-crack-down-dakota-pipeline/ )
And then there's this: http://www.ynetnews.com/articles/0,7340,L-4917913,00.html
So yes, there are people who can and will take that message seriously.
tldr;
By falsely accusing people and blowing out of proportion figures of speach they used, to tag them alt-right or nazis you actually help to resurrect the movement. All that is needed is for these bastards to show up, show support and proclaim they will help fight off this injust (and that is true) attack. While personas like Trump or PDP by the end of a day will not turn into neo-nazis, some of the crowd involved in all this, will. Due to personal injust experience delivered to them by idiots(ignorants) who wound up whole false accusation campaign and bashed anyone that opposed.
You also need to keep in mind that Disney and Google (who owns YouTube, last I heard) are very large multinational corporations, and it is highly unlikely that they would take a move like this without first running it through legal - after all, the last thing they want is to be successfully sued for a couple of million dollars for lost revenue. So, while the executives who started the process may not have read any further than the initial articles, the legal department would have had to go to the source to do their due diligence. So the decision to drop him probably had relatively little to do with the newspapers publishing some articles that missed some context (deliberately or otherwise), and a lot to do with legal looking at the original videos and saying "You're right - we need to drop this guy."
Me too. Social Media allowed a lot more wackos and assholes than necessary. The Internet wasn't a perfect place, but because of places like Facebook and Twitter, you get all of these dumb asses out of the woodwork with nothing better to do. I've already said my piece about Pewds on an earlier topic, but what happened, happened. The irony, either party was surprised at what happened. Pewds should have known better, and Disney most definitely should have known better than get some big YouTube celebrity out of a random hat. Oh, know I why they picked him: because he popular with the children. That is literally the only reason. If it wasn't for that, they would not have even bothered. Pewds is fine financially, so this will barely do anything to him, and he has his followers.American Tanker said:But don't you know? The Internet is SRS BSNS.Gibbagobba said:Now everybody takes themselves way too seriously.
/joke
God damn, I miss the days before social media.
Except, they didn't "fire" him for practicing free speech. They did it because they didn't want to associate themselves with someone who was making the sort of jokes he was making. Something that is well within their right, thanks in no small part to the rights granted by Free Speech.Strazdas said:Firing somone for practicing free speech on his personal channel is by definition censorship. It would be like firing someone for voting Trump, which too btw happened.
They hired him to shriek like a lunatic while being "scared". It's how he became famous in the first place. Disney did not hire someone to make Jew jokes for a children's show. I realize he was smeared and it's kinda bullshit for him, but that doesn't matter. Disney's number one priority is making money. They don't care how the situation went down, they just care about the impact it left on their consumers.Strazdas said:But they do. If you hire a comedian - expect him to make jokes. If you dont want jokes - dont hire a comedian. Hiring a comedian and then firing him for doing his job is nonsense. But then, this is Disney, despite doing thie best to look like child friendly happy company they are actually one of the worst companies in the world and i expect no less from them.RedDeadFred said:I find it pretty funny that people think the companies have some moral obligation to take a joke despite it potentially damaging their bottom line. OBVIOUSLY they know it's a joke. That doesn't matter. It's not about what the companies know, it's about what their consumers believe. Do you think a bunch of parents who are oblivious to internet culture are brushing it off? No, they were probably screeching about never taking little Johnny to Disney World ever again.
Do people seriously think this was some reactionary decision because poor little indie company, Disney, got their precious feelings hurt?
Gotta love how everyone think they're a CEO and obviously KNOWS better than the huge company with tons of advisers that makes billions of dollars.
At least I got a chuckle out of it.
And yes, apperently we DO know better. not how to maximize profit mind you, how to make a good company. The problem is that Disney is out to maximize profit, instead of being a good company.
In order for him to come close to winning that he would have to prove for one that he didn't make anti-Semite videos. Which-considering that he did do those things to the point that Storm Front boosted him...He's going to have a really hard time winning in the courts for any sort of slander.Magmarock said:I think he should sue the articles over this. Sure he might lose some money but someone should stand up to these slanderous beasts in e media
How can you contradict yourself two sentences in and still dont see it? You are saying they didnt fire for what he said on his personal channel but because of what he siad on his personal channel? that makes no sense!Vigormortis said:Except, they didn't "fire" him for practicing free speech. They did it because they didn't want to associate themselves with someone who was making the sort of jokes he was making. Something that is well within their right, thanks in no small part to the rights granted by Free Speech.Strazdas said:Firing somone for practicing free speech on his personal channel is by definition censorship. It would be like firing someone for voting Trump, which too btw happened.
The contemporary attempts to redefine 'censorship' are the height of stupidity. And do nothing but downplay the real instance of censorship.
Is PewDiePie unable to make videos now? Is he being actively silenced by a governing body? Is he no longer allowed to upload his content to Youtube and other outlets?
No, he isn't. He's not being censored. Stop trying to act like he is. It's embarrassing.
I have no love for PDP, i think hes a borderline rapist, so stop making me defend him. No, he was not hired to shriek like a lunatic, he hasnt been doing this for years.RedDeadFred said:They hired him to shriek like a lunatic while being "scared". It's how he became famous in the first place. Disney did not hire someone to make Jew jokes for a children's show. I realize he was smeared and it's kinda bullshit for him, but that doesn't matter. Disney's number one priority is making money. They don't care how the situation went down, they just care about the impact it left on their consumers.
Companies exist to make money. Maximizing profit is how you make a good company. You can have your own personal feel good definition of what makes a good company, but unfortunately, that doesn't matter. Money is what matters. I guess you can boycott Disney stuff over this if it made you feel really bad, but I'm sure they've already accounted for any potential fallout and decided their option was better for the company. They know that the kids who are angry about not getting to see this show are still going to line up for the next Marvel movie.
BTW, I'm not saying that I like what they did. I don't really care about PedDiePie at all, but I still think the situation sucks for him and I hope he tries to get some retribution for the apparent smear that went on him. I haven't looked into the situation really, so I don't know how much he can actually do. Also, in case you get the wrong idea, while I didn't personally find the jokes funny, I don't think anybody or anything should be safe in comedy. Louis CK is my favourite comedian and one of his best bits involves the death of every child with a peanut allergy.
Stormfront boosted my blog once. i spent weeks trying to get rid of them afterwards. Apperently im a nazi now as well?Dragonbums said:In order for him to come close to winning that he would have to prove for one that he didn't make anti-Semite videos. Which-considering that he did do those things to the point that Storm Front boosted him...He's going to have a really hard time winning in the courts for any sort of slander.
You love being purposefully obtuse. You actually made a conceited effort to disassociate yourself from Stormfront the moment you found out they boosted you. (I'm not gonna bother asking what the subject was to even warrant their attention.)Strazdas said:Stormfront boosted my blog once. i spent weeks trying to get rid of them afterwards. Apperently im a nazi now as well?
Yes, it does. Honestly, I am more tired of this halfhearted attitude of "I apologize if I offended you, but it is your fault if you get offended", than of all the accusations of whitewashing on the Internet. Man, if you want to apologize just do it and get on with your life, learn from your mistakes, don't try to guilt trip me into giving you the reason.Chewster said:Anyone else find that to be a half-hearted apology? I mean, sure he said he's sorry but then he spent half the video telling the Wall Street Journal and other old media "come at me bro," using his charity donations as a shield and then "apologizing" by saying he's a rookie comedian. Dude, you've been making videos for six years and maybe it's because you seem to have rabid fans to whom you can do no wrong, but haven't you learned anything about comedy in that time? You're a fucking 27-year-old man with 53 million Goddamn subscribers. You are the media, homeboy. Just apologize and move on, stop making excuses for yourself.
I know he's doing this all on his own or whatever, but he really ought to hire a bloody publicist or something because that video was cringy as fuck.
Dragonbums said:Could You and other stop giving nazis attention they don't deserve and let them fall back into obscurity?Strazdas said:What I did say was that PDP being heavily promoted on there and doing nothing about it sent a lot of red flags to a lot of non gaming sites like WSJ and Times that PDP may very well be Nazi and SkinHead friendly since he seems more upset that the media is 'slandering' him on shit he's done on Camera for millions to see than racist Nazis boosting his channel under the payroll of Disney and YouTube/Google.
Another thing is purposely changing order in chain of events (nazis started their trolling not after jokes were made but after media started their smear campaign, framing comedian as nazi and anti-semite by taking some of the jokes he made out of context).
Please also don't allude something that is literally not possible. Obscure nazi page has as much capacity of boosting 50 million subs Youtuber as a random turd sticking to an oil tanker has capacity to help keep it alfoat.
Actually best PDPs reaction here, were to never even aknowledge their existence. That's to not, even for a moment, divert focus of his audience towards the nazi web page. Seriously think who is boosting whom in this whole situation - if you can't figure it out - it's TSWJ failed attempt to boost themselves at the expense of PDP which ended up TSWJ boosting nazi web page (which btw promptly mocked and abused situation yet again by turning their page into #1 fan site of TWSJ...).
As someone from Europe and part of it where WWII consequences are still very much vivid it's unthinkable to me how easily US public opinion is mislead by money & power crazed press. Media smear campaign which ends up promoting nazi web page, appropriating nazism by fabricating false accusation of nazism targeted at comedian and perpetrators of it all don't give 2 f*&Wcks about it and aren't held responsible by law in slightest.
I do enjoy thou the fact worldwide and in terms of YT community TSWJ faces backlash for this swindle.
Your telling me this? How am I the one giving them attention but the guy with a platform of millions of followers wearing #MAGA hats and quoting 'Kill all Jews' to the point where they took notice of him not giving Nazis and White Supremacists a platform and attention?Jamcie Kerbizz said:Could You and other stop giving nazis attention they don't deserve and let them fall back into obscurity?
How is this trolling? If anything that gives MSM even MORE evidence of their wrong conclusion. That comes off a lot more as colluding with media to further ruin the guy than taking down MSM a notch.Another thing is purposely changing order in chain of events (nazis started their trolling not after jokes were made but after media started their smear campaign, framing comedian as nazi and anti-semite by taking some of the jokes he made out of context).
You act like just because Storm Front has relatively low traffic means that nobody knows about them. That's very false. Everyone knows about Storm Front. Especially MSM. And it doesn't matter how small the site is in comparison to other websites. It's one of the largest site hubs for White Nationalist Nazi skinheads and if your recent actions has resulted in them promoting you trolling or not that's bad news. Especially if you are as big as PDP and also attached to fucking Disney.Please also don't allude something that is literally not possible. Obscure nazi page has as much capacity of boosting 50 million subs Youtuber as a random turd sticking to an oil tanker has capacity to help keep it alfoat.
Give me a break with this. The Wall Street journal doesn't need any 'boosts'. They are as close to dying as Disney is to going bankrupt. The only reason PDP was worth reporting for them is because he was the biggest Youtuber working under DISNEY and he got dropped like a sinking stone. His ties to that company is what gave him any semblance of MSM attention.Seriously think who is boosting whom in this whole situation - if you can't figure it out - it's TSWJ failed attempt to boost themselves at the expense of PDP which ended up TSWJ boosting nazi web page (which btw promptly mocked and abused situation yet again by turning their page into #1 fan site of TWSJ...).
So how was the public mislead exactly? Did PDP not make a series of videos making Anti-Semite jokes? Did they not happen? Were those all fabrications? Fake videos done by a PDP clone? True intent doesn't really matter in this case. He made the videos, it was reported in most of the context and now it's 'wrong' because PDP was just '''trolling'''. That's not how it works. Own up to the consequences of your actions and eat the bullet. You can't cry smear campaign when your stupid ass drenched yourself in the oil to fan the flames.As someone from Europe and part of it where WWII consequences are still very much vivid it's unthinkable to me how easily US public opinion is mislead by money & power crazed press.
Media smear campaign which ends up promoting nazi web page, appropriating nazism by fabricating false accusation of nazism targeted at comedian and perpetrators of it all don't give 2 f*&Wcks about it and aren't held responsible by law in slightest.
They are enjoying as much backlash as the average controversy article gets. And since it's also gamers it's a storm in a teacup more than anything. This isn't that big of a deal in the grand scheme of things. Gamer temper tantrums are no big deal.I do enjoy thou the fact worldwide and in terms of YT community TSWJ faces backlash for this swindle.
Since when European wearing make america great again hat constitutes supporting nazis? Do you even understand who nazis were and what they did in Europe? The other thing is just repeating exact false accusation taken out of context by TWSJ. PDP did not do that. He tried to make fiver guys hold this horrid message and say 'subscribe to keemstar' as a joke. They did it, he posted reaction video end of a joke. Was that a dumb joke? Yes. Was it funny? To people that like meme and YT drama sense of humor, yes. Was it spreading hate and supporting nazi, no.Dragonbums said:Your telling me this? How am I the one giving them attention but the guy with a platform of millions of followers wearing #MAGA hats and quoting 'Kill all Jews' to the point where they took notice of him not giving Nazis and White Supremacists a platform and attention?
Trolling is basically making another party react the way you want them. Usually with outrage. Unfortunately here, they also went for spot light of media and... they got it.Dragonbums said:How is this trolling? If anything that gives MSM even MORE evidence of their wrong conclusion. That comes off a lot more as colluding with media to further ruin the guy than taking down MSM a notch.
Further more there was hardly any context after the fact. He basically said 'Kill all Jews' that's where the joke began and ended. Nothing more to it than that. Unless you also find the prospect of exploiting low income people on Fiverr to write 'Kill All Jews' because they said they would write ANYTHING for $5 funny as well.
Boosting are actions which give smaller internet entity a go at popularity (and clicks and views) of larger one and its usual audience. It's TWSJ that boosted nazi web site not PDP. Either way I claimed and can repeat that it's by definition irrational to claim that obscure nazi page 'boosted' largest youtuber...Dragonbums said:You act like just because (...) has relatively low traffic means that nobody knows about them. That's very false. Everyone knows about (...). Especially MSM. And it doesn't matter how small the site is in comparison to other websites. It's one of the largest site hubs for White Nationalist Nazi skinheads and if your recent actions has resulted in them promoting you trolling or not that's bad news. Especially if you are as big as PDP and also attached to fucking Disney.
Don't be naive, boosting (successful) is always worth it. It's sheer money with hardly any effort. Only people hating it are media planners because they are basically screwed over by publishers. PDP has double the audience of TWSJ and on avg. 10 times larger view counts of his videos. It was a juicy whale to hunt for and pretty despicable atempt on its own. Usually boosting is agreed on beforehead by both publishers. Sharking another one's audience is always seen as hostile action.Dragonbums said:Give me a break with this. The Wall Street journal doesn't need any 'boosts'. They are as close to dying as Disney is to going bankrupt. The only reason PDP was worth reporting for them is because he was the biggest Youtuber working under DISNEY and he got dropped like a sinking stone. His ties to that company is what gave him any semblance of MSM attention.
Correct none of these videos and jokes in them were anti-semitic. They were poor taste, I don't find them funny but they were not hateful towards jews... which btw is the meaning of anti-semitic.Dragonbums said:So how was the public mislead exactly? Did PDP not make a series of videos making Anti-Semite jokes? Did they not happen? Were those all fabrications? Fake videos done by a PDP clone?
No, it always matters in real life. Even murder is determined and classified by intent. It's especially important in comedy.Dragonbums said:True intent doesn't really matter in this case.