Rise of the Roguelike

Jason Rayes

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It's been pretty refreshing over the last few years to see the success of the Indie game industry with quite lot of well made and innovative games finding success, some hugely so (Hello Minecraft) showing that its possible to develop and find success outside the confines of the traditional publishing system.

One of the most interesting developments for me is the rise to virtual mainstream of the rouguelike game. This is a genre that has always been pretty close to my heart, I remember many moons ago downloading Nethack and this was back when you needed to connect to a Bulletin Board Service with a 2400 baud modem and godamn grimoire. I instantly fell in love with the randomly generated dungeons, brutal difficulty and permadeath. I played a lot of others since but they always remained a kind of niche game due to steep learning curves and primitive graphics. So it with a good deal of surprise and delight to see them finally flourish into something a much larger audience can get into. Goodness its almost so prevalent at the moment that every second indie game is slapping "rougelike elements" in the features list. But it doesn't over shadow that there have been some real gems. For me some favourites are FTL, Dungeons of Dredmor, Don't Starve, Rouge Legacy and Tales of Maj'Eyal.

So, what do you think of roguelikes and what are your favourites?
 

StriderShinryu

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I really enjoy the genre mainly for the time frame it generally fits into. With rogue-likes you often get full deep game experiences that allow for truly satisfying short play sessions. When I'm going to be sitting down to a session with a standard game, I'm often planning to spend several hours with it. Many standard games actually don't even feel like proper experiences until you allow time to "get into" them. That's great and all but roguelikes fit into that space when you've got 30 minutes or an hour to play something and want to get an actual decent experience out of it.

My favourite roguelike is easily The Binding of Isaac, no question. I've enjoyed others but Isaac is the only roguelike that I've literally spent hundreds of hours with and yet still enjoy a run of every day or two. Rebirth is going to be sooooo good.
 

latenightapplepie

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FTL: Faster than Light is my favourite. It may feel so frustratingly unfair sometimes, but I still love it. I'm really hoping they make some kind of sequel to build on the mechanics of the first.

I enjoyed Rogue Legacy too, but I found myself just grinding to get over the line in that one, which is sort of the opposite of I feel a Roguelike to be. Risk of Rain is another little roguelike I've enjoyed, but I haven't gotten the multiplayer to work on it yet, and apparently that's where all the fun is. The visuals are really cool though. Great design.
 

nomotog_v1legacy

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Binding of Isaac best rougelike no question. Every game feels like a whole new game almost. I can't wait to see what they do with rebirth.

I like FTL too. FTL is maybe a little to random, but it's very fun. The problem with FTL is that every time I play it I think this would be so much cooler if it was an open world game.

One rougelike that I hate, but love is the pit. It is the most rougelike of all the new rougelike. It's turn based and even has a food bar. I love the setting being nice and futuristic. I love some of the mechanic ideas. The problem is that is basically feels the same every time you play it. The game has a lot of depth, but a play through is so long and so stiff that you will see the entire depth in the same order more or less every play through.
 

Jason Rayes

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nomotog said:
.....

One rougelike that I hate, but love is the pit. It is the most rougelike of all the new rougelike. It's turn based and even has a food bar. I love the setting being nice and futuristic. I love some of the mechanic ideas. The problem is that is basically feels the same every time you play it. The game has a lot of depth, but a play through is so long and so stiff that you will see the entire depth in the same order more or less every play through.
The Sword of The Stars The Pit? I really quite like it a lot to the gameplay too, but it really is quite long, if you are smart with your resources you can get a few hours on one playthrough, unlike some of the others people have listed so far which are normally done in an hour at most. I can't quite put my finger on what keeps it from being better than just ok but I still play it from time to time
StriderShinryu said:
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My favourite roguelike is easily The Binding of Isaac, no question. I've enjoyed others but Isaac is the only roguelike that I've literally spent hundreds of hours with and yet still enjoy a run of every day or two. Rebirth is going to be sooooo good.
Yeah Binding of Isaac is good, the graphics remind me of a nightmare version of Zelda for some reason. Maybe its because of the way the rooms work?

latenightapplepie said:
FTL: Faster than Light is my favourite. It may feel so frustratingly unfair sometimes, but I still love it. I'm really hoping they make some kind of sequel to build on the mechanics of the first.

I enjoyed Rogue Legact too, but I found myself just grinding to get over the line in that one, which is sort of the opposite of I feel a Roguelike to be. Risk of Rain is another little roguelike I've enjoyed, but I haven't gotten the multiplayer to work on it yet, and apparently that's where all the fun is. The visuals are really cool though. Great design.
I love FTL for the way it gives you that feeling of captaining a starship. It can be frustrating how quickly things can go pear shaped, but ironically that's part of the fun and leads to some of the best stories you'll have with the game. Dying over a supernova because you've vented the airlocks to put out the fires but everyone suffocates before you can lose them again? Gold.

The main thing I love about Rogue Legacy is the legacy system itself. The Castevania style arcade exploration is a lot of fun, but its the innovative way it lest you leave stuff for your next playthrough and also build up the town in between that really make it worthy of mention.
 

nomotog_v1legacy

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Jason Rayes said:
nomotog said:
.....

One rougelike that I hate, but love is the pit. It is the most rougelike of all the new rougelike. It's turn based and even has a food bar. I love the setting being nice and futuristic. I love some of the mechanic ideas. The problem is that is basically feels the same every time you play it. The game has a lot of depth, but a play through is so long and so stiff that you will see the entire depth in the same order more or less every play through.
The Sword of The Stars The Pit? I really quite like it a lot to the gameplay too, but it really is quite long, if you are smart with your resources you can get a few hours on one playthrough, unlike some of the others people have listed so far which are normally done in an hour at most. I can't quite put my finger on what keeps it from being better than just ok but I still play it from time to time
I think it's just because it's a really flat really samey experience. (It lacks difference in kind.) I mean how often do your play through of the pit feel different? Like in BOI, when you find mom's knife, that totally changes the way you play. (This goes for nearly all items too.) In the pit, you can change your class and still find yourself playing in the same way. A scout doesn't feel different from a engineer or marine.
 

Jason Rayes

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nomotog said:
I think it's just because it's a really flat really samey experience. (It lacks difference in kind.) I mean how often do your play through of the pit feel different? Like in BOI, when you find mom's knife, that totally changes the way you play. (This goes for nearly all items too.) In the pit, you can change your class and still find yourself playing in the same way. A scout doesn't feel different from a engineer or marine.
Yeah I do agree, it is very samey. The classes...well I find I survive longer as the Marine and I unlock more recipes and information as a technical class which is pretty much as you expect. Its not much but that stuff you unlock, crafting recipes, monster information, is stored away and carried over to future playthroughs. Perhaps that sameyness is what holds it back from being better than just fair. I still have it installed though :)

I honestly haven't touched any of the psychic stuff they added in that DLC, maybe that adds some variety?
 

Neverhoodian

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nomotog said:
I like FTL too. FTL is maybe a little to random, but it's very fun. The problem with FTL is that every time I play it I think this would be so much cooler if it was an open world game.
Well then, have I got a mod for you:
http://www.ftlgame.com/forum/viewtopic.php?f=11&t=15663

Not only does this give you the option to delay the showdown with the Rebel flagship as long as you want, but it adds so much new stuff that it feels like a proper expansion or sequel.

I'd probably have to go with FTL as my favorite roguelike. I downloaded it almost on a whim for a few dollars during a Steam sale a while ago, but it was well worth it. Frankly, given the amount of time I've put into it and the free FTL: Advanced Edition expansion (not to mention the active modding community), I almost feel guilty that I spent so little money for it. Some other roguelike games I've enjoyed are Desktop Dungeons and Dungeons of Dredmor.
 

Jason Rayes

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Neverhoodian said:
nomotog said:
I'd probably have to go with FTL as my favorite roguelike. I downloaded it almost on a whim for a few dollars during a Steam sale a while ago, but it was well worth it. Frankly, given the amount of time I've put into it and the free FTL: Advanced Edition expansion (not to mention the active modding community), I almost feel guilty that I spent so little money for it. Some others I've enjoyed are Desktop Dungeons and Dungeons of Dredmor.
Desktop Dungeons, there is one that hasn't been mentioned yet. I remember playing it when it was still in development but the full release has added so much. I quite like the town building you can do between delving into the depths. I also enjoy the way the dungeons work almost like a puzzle rather than the usual hack and slash style.

I haven't played FTL since the Advanced edition was released, has much been added?
 

Neverhoodian

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Jason Rayes said:
Desktop Dungeons, there is one that hasn't been mentioned yet. I remember playing it when it was still in development but the full release has added so much. I quite like the town building you can do between delving into the depths. I also enjoy the way the dungeons work almost like a puzzle rather than the usual hack and slash style.

I haven't played FTL since the Advanced edition was released, has much been added?
Yeah, I played the free beta version and enjoyed it, but the full release makes it pale in comparison.

As for FTL, the expansion added a whole bunch of stuff, including new ships, weapons, drones, subsystems, scenarios, music and an alien race to boot. Best of all, it's free. There's also all sorts of mods, including the Captain's Edition [http://www.ftlgame.com/forum/viewtopic.php?f=11&t=15663] mod I linked to earlier. Seriously, go check it out sometime. Vanilla FTL: Advanced Edition is awesome, but with Captain's Edition you'll probably never want to go back.
 

briankoontz

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I'm a fan of Desktop Dungeons, but I feel that the originals are still the best. Angband has really amazing depth and the amount of patience it requires makes Dark Souls feel like Call of Duty.

The reason many of the best games have primitive graphics is because the developers are "amateurs" who program out of love for the creation and often spend many years modifying and fine-tuning the game. This is why Dwarf Fortress is one of the best games ever made. Games with higher budgets are driven by the capitalist need to constantly be making something new which can be marketed and sold - the idea is disposable consumption. All of the deepest games ever made have been done by "amateurs".

There's an enormous difference between indie developers who are emulating the capitalist model, just on a lower budget and developers who love what they are creating.

Just think how amazing The Sims would be if instead of subjecting the entire production process to profit maximization it was given the Dwarf Fortress treatment. Creator Will Wright would spend year after year modifying it, deepening, fine-tuning. Instead we get The Sims 4, a brighter, shinier, shittier toy.

While the Dwarf Fortress method creates better games, EA's method generates more profit for EA.

Returning to the original topic of Roguelikes - I prefer the originals partly because your characters don't become more powerful over time, as they do with modern games and their various power-up unlocks. It's about the PLAYER becoming better at the game, not the characters becoming better.

Also unlike many of the modern variations, the originals are free. You don't have to take my word for it that Angband is a fantastic game. http://rephial.org/release/
 

Tarfeather

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Rainbow_Dashtruction said:
Very few Roguelikes have been made in the past decade, although it has definitely increased. Only about 5 have actually been made.
Small roguelikes are being made all the time, I bet there are hundreds of them. But you won't know about most, because they aren't very interesting.

If you're interested in actual roguelikes(as opposed to popular indie games with roguelike-elements), I recommend to browse this site: http://www.roguebasin.com/index.php?title=Main_Page
 

Jason Rayes

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Rainbow_Dashtruction said:
Very few Roguelikes have been made in the past decade, although it has definitely increased. Only about 5 have actually been made. Unless Tales of Maj'Eyal is (never heard of it) then only Dungeons of Dredmor is a Roguelike.

ANd Rouge Legacy is not a Roguelike or a Roguelite. Its a straight platformer.

I prefer the better term for what your describing, Roguelite.
I guess, I cut my teeth on Nethack after all so I can agree these are definitely lighter games, but they are also introducing the ideas to a new and wider audience and I think that is a good thing. The current definition pretty much means anything with procedurally generated levels, high difficulty and permanent death.

As for ToME, here is a trailer. Check it out, this one is definitely in the original definition of a roguelike:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=aj9pT0V56U0
 

GabeZhul

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nomotog said:
I like FTL too. FTL is maybe a little to random, but it's very fun. The problem with FTL is that every time I play it I think this would be so much cooler if it was an open world game.
I play FTL like that using Cheat Engine, by freezing the rebel progress. It's still not 100% open world, but I personally prefer taking my time exploring and it doesn't really break the game as much as you would expect. Combine that with the Captain's edition mods and it becomes a completely different gaming experience.
 

Imperioratorex Caprae

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One Way Hero is one of my favorite short-time wasters, FTL bane to my existence yet highly addicting... I like the idea of roguelikes as long as they're engaging and not super punishingly difficult. There's reasonable difficulty and then there's attempting to emulate the frustration of bad Sonic/Mario physics and Dark/Demon's Souls unforgiving nature.