Rockstar: Make Good Games and the Money Will Follow
- Thread starter Greg Tito
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I suppose this is true, but I don't think the Amiga, Commodore or Atari ST really hold a large share of the market these days.Abedeus said:
Making good games in order to make money, and NOT just milking your franchise endlessly by releasing the same thing over and over again?
Mother of god, somebody stop these crazy bastards.
Mother of god, somebody stop these crazy bastards.
True, it didn't sell well when it first came out. Same with ICO. However, I'm willing to bet that's because nobody, not even Sony, made any noise about them then. This time, ICO/Shadow of the Colossus had a rather large cult-following that's been talking about how great these games are for years. As a result, more and more people kept hearing about them and how great they are, and I'm willing to be gladly picked up the HD collection to see what all the hubbub was all about.RedEyesBlackGamer said:
Same with Demon's Souls/Dark Souls. Demon's Souls came out with 300,000 in the first few months. Didn't have much marketing or talk about it, but as time went on, more people bought it, and talked about it. I'm willing to bet Dark Souls sold better thanks to the success of Demon's Souls, the marketing push it's gotten (I've seen commercials for this game everywhere to the point of annoyance), and because of how much everyone's talking about it.
With Persona, it's been a while since 4. I wouldn't be surprised if Persona 5 sells very well thanks to the amount of love it gets on the internet. You don't see as many people talk about it like with Shadow of the Colossus/ICO or Demon's Souls, but those who do talk about it love it, and say as much. Over time, that build, more people play it, talk about it, and get it heard.
I suppose the overall point I'm trying to make here is for publishers to put resources behind new and interesting products. A good example is Assassin's Creed. Ubisoft marketed that quite a bit, and it became one of the best, if not the best, of their franchises.
Almost every new IP and original game that flounders is because there's barely any marketing support from the publisher. It also doesn't help that they put it in the holiday release period against all the huge AAA sequels.
Give a new, interesting IP a marketing push, release it at a time where there isn't much coming out(like, say, summer), and see if it doesn't turn a profit. Sony/Activision did this with Infamous/Prototype, and both sold well enough to warrant sequels. Both released at close to the same time as well.
You also mentioned Beyond Good and Evil. That came out the same time as Prince of Persia. Both were new IP's, but one was marketed more. Which one sold very well and went on to become a franchise?
Also, Catherine recently passed 500,000 copies sold worldwide a month or so ago.
There are markets for new, unique, odd, and niche games and/or IP's. You just need make noise about them so people know that they're coming out. No, they won't make millions, but they will turn a profit. And who knows, if you stick with one long enough, put resources behind it and really push it, it might just become the multi-million dollar franchise you want it to be.
You also mention the above post. Damn near all those games had either very little or no marketing push behind them.
Beyond Good and Evil - covered that
Grim Fandango - now a classic and one of the most talked about point-and-click adventure games. If Lucasarts put it on Steam and/or GoG they'd make a very large, easy profit. Not sure if let down by marketing since it came out in the 90's when I didn't have
Mad World - Wasn't marketed much at all. Game was also pretty "meh", so there's that.
Okami - Classic talked about all the time and loved by almost all who play it. Let down by marketing.
Psychonaughts - Barely marketed.
Shenmue - This one's a case of a budget that gets wildly out of control. Still, if it were given an HD re-release or released on PSN/XBLA I'm sure it'd see great sales like Crazy Taxi and Sonic Adventure.
System Shock 1 and 2 - These are actually the most requested games to be added to GoG. If they were added, they'd sell stupidly well. Much like Planescape: Torment. Again though, came out in the 90's like Grim Fandango, not too sure what kind of marketing push it got. Don't expect it to be much.
Baten Kaitos - I'm definitely chalking this one up to bad marketing since this is the first time I've ever heard of it. After reading a bit about it, I really wish I did know about it.
Eternal Darkness - Frequently talked about classic that didn't get much marketing. I don't see a discussion about gamecube or horror games where this one doesn't come up.
Yeah, almost all had lousy or no marketing. Grim Fandango and the System Shock games actually were successful though, since back then you didn't need to sell as much to turn a profit. And if they were released on GoG and/or Steam, they'd make huge amounts of money thanks to the insane amounts of praise you hear for them all over the internet.
Wow, that was way more text than I intended...
I would be hard-pressed to call what Rockstar has done with the GTA series "a cash-in." Do they make a ridiculous amount of money with each release? Yes, but at the same time, they don't release a new one at the same time every year. When they do release one, It's been after a couple years, and they generally contain enough unique content and creative mechanics to remain distinct but familiar.Yosharian said:
Rockstar puts an incredible amount of hard work into making high quality games and building consumer trust. I can hardly think of an instance where I've felt cheated out of my money by purchasing one of their products. The same cannot be said about certain other publishers.
This trust thing is important because while I won't be purchasing "Half-of-a-Roster Update 2011" or "Multiplayer 18" or even "This Game Again?: Bucharest 1972", I'll gladly throw my money at anything with an R* badge. Unless they screw us over with GTA V, but I doubt it.
EDIT: Now that I'm thinking about it, I would probably purchase that last one if it existed. haha
It's almost like, if you make people want your game, they will more likely buy it, or something.
Still, Rockstar makes those games.
For the love of God yes. Good games are one thing, but to make them sell, you need something everyone wants.RedEyesBlackGamer said:
Still, Rockstar makes those games.
Games becoming "cult classics" or "late bloomers" is nice and all if the developer is still afloat, but a lot of times the IP is abandoned because it didn't sell well. Baten Kaitos, for example, will probably never get another game because of low sales, so it's not like no damage is done. I'll agree it's less of an issue now though, since most "underrated classics" can be re-released digitally with great ease and can possibly re-kindle a franchise.Irridium said:
It seems like "Make good games that have decent marketing" rather than just "make good games" is the winning formula. Unfortunately, (correct me if I'm wrong) you need a fair amount of money (or a deal with a good publisher) to do decent marketing in the first place, right? Either way it seems like there's a lot more to selling well than just "making what you like and making it well". Actually the fact that BAD games sell well with decent marketing (HELLO DUKE) really just emphasizes how important marketing is.
Either be one of the big boys that crushes less marketed releases, find good marketing, or avoid competing with established franchises at all costs, I guess?
Also I'd like to hear your opinion on Chinatown Wars, which had quality, solid marketing, and a strong IP backing it up. I sort of consider its low sales as a fluke. Maybe GTA lovers just don't own DSes.
While I agree wholeheartedly with the overall statement- this quote:
I'm glad they run with the good ideas the gaming community has come up with, but they shouldn't start getting delusions that everything was their idea. That's a very, very dangerous path to tread.
Is an outright lie. GTA games have been keeping on top of the sandbox heap specifically because they've taken all the best elements from their competitors- the open 3D style and mini-map of Driver, the wanted circle from Scarface, the GPS route plotter from Saint's Row, cover mechanics from the entire 3PS genre, etc etc.
I'm glad they run with the good ideas the gaming community has come up with, but they shouldn't start getting delusions that everything was their idea. That's a very, very dangerous path to tread.
*in comes GTA:Vice city and his pal Bully*
see? there's our proof Rockstar is creative
*in comes GTA: San Andreas*.
...we got some new developers from Activision, the COD team.
*in comes GTA IV*
we think it's creative.
Personally, I think Rockstar are suffering from the citizen kane syndrome. I liked Rockstar back then than I do today.
see? there's our proof Rockstar is creative
*in comes GTA: San Andreas*.
...we got some new developers from Activision, the COD team.
*in comes GTA IV*
we think it's creative.
Personally, I think Rockstar are suffering from the citizen kane syndrome. I liked Rockstar back then than I do today.
I don't know; those games are constantly referenced as being quality and influential. Shadow has been redone for HD this year and I can't find Persona 4 easily (and I'd like to play it.)RedEyesBlackGamer said:
I suppose it depends on what you mean by 'meager'. Those games were profitable for the companies who made them to continue making games; isn't that enough?
Every one of you is wrong, on the internet and therefore achieved the unholy duo of being wrong on the internet. You should cry in a corner about your wrongness. You should pretend like your breaking things that are just worthless/disposable. You should yell up stairs to your mom and see if there's leftovers. You should go to the bathroom, but continue crying. You should come back and explain to me I'm dumb and a loser when in fact your the one that's been crying for almost a half an hour about being wrong on the internet. Stop crying, you damn baby.
Rockstar is 8th level tits.
Rockstar is 8th level tits.