"Rockstar Wives" Complain About Working Conditions
- Thread starter Andy Chalk
- Start date
As was pointed out to me once, the mere fact that there is a deadline in place limits creativity. The more "time crunched", "stressed", and pushed towards a goal someone is, the less creative they will be with their solution, as there is always an optimal (time-wise) way to the end of a problem, even though it may not be the best or most eloquent (which, IMO, would be an important part of developing a video game).
One of the first thoughts that came to my mind was StarCraft 2 and StarCraft Ghost. One has been in development FOREVAR, and people still want it, so what is the big deal (short term money)? One is cancelled(?) and people still want it! If the game is good and people want it, pushing out a better product, rather than developing it faster, would seem to make sense, and make for happier employees to boot.
One of the first thoughts that came to my mind was StarCraft 2 and StarCraft Ghost. One has been in development FOREVAR, and people still want it, so what is the big deal (short term money)? One is cancelled(?) and people still want it! If the game is good and people want it, pushing out a better product, rather than developing it faster, would seem to make sense, and make for happier employees to boot.
Because SUEING your employer is a great way to endear you to them!
Since when are corperations supposed to be chairities?
This is why I think everyone should do 2 years in the military. Do you damn job and quit bitching.
Sure, I could complain about 12 hour watches 7 days a week when I'm 500 feet or deeper underwater but that would be fucking stupid.
Perspective, people.
Since when are corperations supposed to be chairities?
This is why I think everyone should do 2 years in the military. Do you damn job and quit bitching.
Sure, I could complain about 12 hour watches 7 days a week when I'm 500 feet or deeper underwater but that would be fucking stupid.
Perspective, people.
Have you read the OP? Maybe in the military you get to work 12 hours a day, 6 days a week, but you're volunteering (or being drafted in major wartime) to go into an extremely strenuous environment. These people are being denied simple benefits that all workers deserve. They're trying to do their jobs and are being abused by their employers, and have been for 10 months.Cryo84R said:
Dear Rockstar San Diego:
Please treat your employees with dignity and respect. Allow them to take their time developing a quality product without the stress and deterioration of living in a year-long crunch. I am willing to wait until June for Red Dead Redemption if it's necessary.
Thank you,
Dr. Gonzo
[quickly ducks while other gamers throw cans of corn his way]
Please treat your employees with dignity and respect. Allow them to take their time developing a quality product without the stress and deterioration of living in a year-long crunch. I am willing to wait until June for Red Dead Redemption if it's necessary.
Thank you,
Dr. Gonzo
[quickly ducks while other gamers throw cans of corn his way]
Crunch times are an industry standard, or so several people who've worked in it have told me: the problem probably isn't that, rather I think it's that they're not being provided with a positive work environment.
It's one thing to have to work your ass off in a good work environment: it's not fun (unless you're doing something you REALLY like), but you can draw a feeling of satisfaction from it. But when you're basically being dehumanized by the management, then you just start to have your soul crushed after a while.
While it's no surprise to see the benefits reductions and the possibility of the studio shutting down (this IS a time of economic hardship), at the very least the people slaving away to produce good games shouldn't be depressed and half-dead while doing it.
It's one thing to have to work your ass off in a good work environment: it's not fun (unless you're doing something you REALLY like), but you can draw a feeling of satisfaction from it. But when you're basically being dehumanized by the management, then you just start to have your soul crushed after a while.
While it's no surprise to see the benefits reductions and the possibility of the studio shutting down (this IS a time of economic hardship), at the very least the people slaving away to produce good games shouldn't be depressed and half-dead while doing it.
zoozilla said:
I think you missed the point. When the crunch time is a year a long, it's no longer crunch time; it's just standard working conditions. A common trick for management is too give to much work for employees to do without working unpaid overtime or simply abuse crunch time privileges. This is incredibly illegal, especially in California, and just asking for a lawsuit.Cousin_IT said:They've been in Crunch mode for almost a year? My expectations for this game just dropped
For decades, we've heard and seen stories of programmers and IT workers crunching long hours by running a rat-race in demeaning conditions. We've heard, seen and sometimes experienced for ourselves what long-term desk exposure can do, from carpal tunnel, to goggle vision, and other stress. We know about how full-time programmers are frequently coldly discarded by corporations upon the completion of a project as if they were actually tempts.
With all of that knowledge, it astounds me I have never met a programmer or IT professional in a guild or union! A quick Google search only turned out hits on a comedy group, proposals for unions, an actual functional page for a union that hasn't been updated in five years, and an article explaining why there isn't one. [http://www.computerworld.com/s/article/54154/Programmers_are_programmed_against_unions]
The article touched a good point. Many working programmers tend to lean libertarian on their political compass. The whole notion of a labor union is lumped together with a Democratic, Socialist, or Communist party. Thus, even when facing abuse they are predisposed to not side with those beliefs. However good this point, it is a generalization.
Many of the programmers I know have pretty leftist beliefs. They push for open source programming, net neutrality, free distribution, open access, shareware, and other initiatives. One of the biggest problems is that most work in small cabals with only distant links to the rest of the company. There is no place and time to organize, and even if they did, their numbers would be too small to sway an employer who has plenty of budding skilled graduates from offshore.
So within our borders the cycle continues. And as the digital age reaches up, the conditions continue, we run the rat race and laugh at it featured in Dilbert cartoons. Maybe someday there will be an Emma Goldman certified in C++ who will change this.
With all of that knowledge, it astounds me I have never met a programmer or IT professional in a guild or union! A quick Google search only turned out hits on a comedy group, proposals for unions, an actual functional page for a union that hasn't been updated in five years, and an article explaining why there isn't one. [http://www.computerworld.com/s/article/54154/Programmers_are_programmed_against_unions]
The article touched a good point. Many working programmers tend to lean libertarian on their political compass. The whole notion of a labor union is lumped together with a Democratic, Socialist, or Communist party. Thus, even when facing abuse they are predisposed to not side with those beliefs. However good this point, it is a generalization.
Many of the programmers I know have pretty leftist beliefs. They push for open source programming, net neutrality, free distribution, open access, shareware, and other initiatives. One of the biggest problems is that most work in small cabals with only distant links to the rest of the company. There is no place and time to organize, and even if they did, their numbers would be too small to sway an employer who has plenty of budding skilled graduates from offshore.
So within our borders the cycle continues. And as the digital age reaches up, the conditions continue, we run the rat race and laugh at it featured in Dilbert cartoons. Maybe someday there will be an Emma Goldman certified in C++ who will change this.
As I said over in that Gamasutra thread, nothing will change unless there is a lawsuit. A threat of a lawsuit will just be shrugged off.
Plus, from what I'm hearing, TT is either going to close down that studio or trim it even further - regardless of how RDR does in the marketplace.
Once the game development became big business and more competitive, all the life (and in most cases, the fun) was sucked out of it. So stuff like this - which goes on at almost all game studios nowadays - is par for the course and will be for some time to come.
The problem stems from game development economics. Why spend $8m and four years on a game, when you can spend $4m and two years? Thats the economics of it and the crux of the matter.
And if you are bleeding money and with very little titles making money to cover it, the race to release key titles becomes more of an issue.
Plus, from what I'm hearing, TT is either going to close down that studio or trim it even further - regardless of how RDR does in the marketplace.
Once the game development became big business and more competitive, all the life (and in most cases, the fun) was sucked out of it. So stuff like this - which goes on at almost all game studios nowadays - is par for the course and will be for some time to come.
The problem stems from game development economics. Why spend $8m and four years on a game, when you can spend $4m and two years? Thats the economics of it and the crux of the matter.
And if you are bleeding money and with very little titles making money to cover it, the race to release key titles becomes more of an issue.
I just had to reply when I saw this... it is exactly the same at Rockstar North. I didn't realise it was so bad in San Diego as my experience is all in Edinburgh. Makes sense tho as its the same guy at the top. Also the comment from Wordsmith is so true... everyone thinks it would be awesome to work for R* making video games so there is no shortage of young enthusiastic people trying to get a foot in the door. The company doesn't even have an HR department. Doesn't that say a lot?
Huh. 'Crunch mode' only 72 hours a week?
Ever heard any of the stories told by Mike McShaffry?
He's worked in the industry for a long time... And recalls a period at Origin games, and even the industry generally.
60-70 hour weeks were 'normal'.
Crunch mode started at 90 hours... And Origin had a club for people that worked more than 120 hours in a week. Impressive? Not when 95% of all it's employees qualified...
Just think about that for a moment 120 hours in a week is 120 of 168 hours.
That's more than 17 hours a day.
These people never went home. Slept in the office, ate in the office... and even then, they were sleeping less than 7 hours a night, every single night, for several nights on end.
Honestly, I can't think of any industry where that would be considered OK.
And yet, it wasn't uncommon in the gaming industry of the past.
There's been improvement it seems... But compared to a 40 hour week, it still seems insane...
Ever heard any of the stories told by Mike McShaffry?
He's worked in the industry for a long time... And recalls a period at Origin games, and even the industry generally.
60-70 hour weeks were 'normal'.
Crunch mode started at 90 hours... And Origin had a club for people that worked more than 120 hours in a week. Impressive? Not when 95% of all it's employees qualified...
Just think about that for a moment 120 hours in a week is 120 of 168 hours.
That's more than 17 hours a day.
These people never went home. Slept in the office, ate in the office... and even then, they were sleeping less than 7 hours a night, every single night, for several nights on end.
Honestly, I can't think of any industry where that would be considered OK.
And yet, it wasn't uncommon in the gaming industry of the past.
There's been improvement it seems... But compared to a 40 hour week, it still seems insane...