The only Star Wars movie that would interest me is a Stand Alone Darth Vader movie as the protaginist.
Rogue One may be the worst Star Wars movie to date
- Thread starter Zontar
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I can't say I much enjoyed The Force Awakens that much. Mary Sue's Adventure in the Star War's Universe didn't appeal much to me.
So, I'll probably skip Rogue One.
So, I'll probably skip Rogue One.
Samtemdo8 said:
I don't know, I can sort of see the value in it but mainly because Revenge of the Sith screwed the pooch by having Anakin murder the Jedi younglings, something that is just fucking reprehensible, as opposed to maybe slaying his fellow Knight-Generals in combat to give weight to the belief that his (short-term) gains by turning to the Dark Side could prevent the death of his wife and children so I think a movie that might hint or give direction to the goodness Luke claims still resides in his father's heart actually existing could work.Ezekiel said:
In fact it might even make a good sort of political thriller that starts off with some wag attempting to assassinate The Emperor and Vader has to work with the Imperial Security Bureau to ferret out the assassin. I'd also like to see the Empire taking some active steps to stem the rebellion the smart way mainly by not being stupid assholes: I mean I don't get the feeling the Stormtroopers are reluctant conscripts or the conditioned from birth type like in the First Order. Darth Vader is a murderous bastard, but I figure he's still got a hate-boner for slavers so perhaps when he discovers that the assassin was really an unsuited amateur being forced at figurative blaster point to do this lest his or her family become the latest playthings of some rich deviant pricks; he instead frames the slave trader as the assassin and then gets to conduct a purge of Imperial officers and supporters engaging in it under the guise of rooting out an attempted coup by corrupt officers.
I think it would work because we hate people like that, and while it's satisfying in most movies to see the SWAT team kick the door in and see law and order win the day it is equally if not more satisfying to see total bottom feeders like this squeal like piglets when the realize they've attracted the attention of someone far more dangerous than they're capable of handling. I mean even then Vader would only be doing 'good' because it's something that personally shits him AND he's been led there by other matters rather than any bizarre altruism on his part.
You know, the movie was actually pretty good.
Bet these people are pissed by the ending.
edit: And I actually do not like the Star Wars background/world at all, usually. This one actually broke the stupid stupid thing, and made sense. And it did not even go against something previous established, it just showed how unbalanced the scales are.
Bet these people are pissed by the ending.
edit: And I actually do not like the Star Wars background/world at all, usually. This one actually broke the stupid stupid thing, and made sense. And it did not even go against something previous established, it just showed how unbalanced the scales are.
Saw it just tonight.
Overall, a good film but very inconsistent, with clear signs of high-quality special effects and cinematography in the climax sandwiched between a very clumsy and almost shoddily-made opening act and a painfully artificial ending that comes five or ten minutes after the narrative had hit its climax.
(I would blame studio-mandated reshoots for this, as it's difficult to reconcile the gap in quality otherwise, and I really hope that this (along with BvS and Suicide Squad) doesn't start a trend.)
Edit: Oh! Final point: the soundtrack is...bizarre. It's like watching Frankenstein lurch around the place. You're thinking, "oh, this is the Star Wars soundtrack, yeah," and then it just goes somewhere else, and not in a good way, in a weird and bland way that leaves you feeling like you tried to remember the Star Wars theme but got Raiders of the Lost Ark instead.
It's the uncanny valley, but for sound. Awful. Awful, awful, awful.
It's a mixed bag.
The start is extremely disjointed, with lots of rapid cuts to different planets and a lot of unnecessary exposition (yes, we know the Imperials are building a planet-killer). The two main leads (Jyn and...whoever the other guy was called) are unlikable and poorly performed, and they get a very ham-handed romance in the last half that comes out of nowhere and just looks...eugh. At least it's better than Anakin and Padme.
The first segment of the film is, honestly, kind of a waste of time. Saw Gerrera shows up, is cool for a while, then does nothing. In general, until the midpoint the narrative is rocky, the special effects suck, the dialogue is crappy and laden with exposition (just to make sure that you know that there's a Death Star, but - get this - it has a weakness!!!), there's one incredibly forced cameo that makes no sense in retrospect, and it all turns out to be pointless.
The few high points during the first half were a handful of lines from the droid, Donnie Yen's introduction (all of Donnie Yen, basically), and one or two key scenes that establish that the Rebel Alliance are not all saints and martyrs. In the end, though, the moral ambiguity just does nothing but make me stop caring; the unscrupulous Rebel general pursues a plan that - without spoiling anything - makes no sense in context, and what should have been a mid-film reveal is instead literally stated out aloud by two characters at two separate points in the film.
Then it hits the mid-way point, and it starts to get better. The special effects make a huge jump in quality, leading me to think the earlier segments were mostly reshoots. Donnie Yen and his buddy are great. There's a gorgeous destruction scene involving the Death Star that really deserves a medal. Then the action hits Scarif, and it basically gets great. It's an extended, forty-minute-long war sequence, essentially. You've got AT-ATs, starfighters, star destroyers, there's lasers everywhere, everything explodes - it's great. You can see that this is where the work got put in. The film's central conflict ends nicely, the villain is defeated by irony, everyone gets a chance to shine during the long ensemble action sequences, Scarif is just beautiful, and I don't want to spoil anything but it's sad, and...
...then there's an incredibly forced coda, complete with CGI Carrie Fisher, which exists solely to tie the film in to A New Hope down to the establishing shot. It's awful. It also makes no sense; it shows Bail Organa saying "I'm going to go to Alderaan, wink wink nudge nudge, I know a girl," there's a shot of R2-D2 and C-3PO on Yavin, and then...for some reason Leia and her ship, complete with two droids, are on Scarif later to receive the Death Star plans and flee into hyperspace. It doesn't make any goddamn sense; why would you bring a protocol droid on a warship, why would Leia - a politician - be on the ship and at the battle, why wouldn't she be at Alderaan where we were just told she was, if it was a warship why did Leia insist it was a diplomatic vessel in A New Hope, just...very forced. A disappointing way to end the film.
On cameos: Grand Moff Tarkin makes an extended appearance that some reviewers said was very jarring, because he's being played by CGI Peter Cushing. The CGI is of extremely high quality, but the uncanny valley is still very noticeable. Weirdly, it didn't bother me that much, and when I thought about it I realised why; Tarkin is meant to be creepy and unsettling. Having CGI!Tarkin slam face-first into the uncanny valley works, because it creeps you out to look at the guy! He doesn't look human!
Vader gets a couple of cameos; one in the middle, which is done very well, and one in the end, which literally gave me an erection. He gets to show off, is what I'm saying. He's ultimately tangential to the plot - I was kind of expecting him to have more weight, but maybe they're saving that for a Vader standalone - but he does get to show us all why every Jedi in the galaxy was pissing their pants at the mere mention of this guy's name.
As a final note; if you didn't like TFA because of Daisy Ridley or whatever, blah blah affirmitative action blah Mary Sues blah blah, you won't like Jyn Erso. While I wasn't bothered at all by Ridley's performance in TFA because I found her endearingly earnest, Felicity Jones just really rubs me the wrong way. She's the focus of the plot, and I don't understand why. She has no character development, her sole motivation is finding her father - who similarly gets very little characterisation beyond being a walking plot device - and right at the end of the film she turns into a nigh-suicidal idealist with no real reason other than because the film needs someone to stand up and say something inspiring. All this when any sane person who went through her story would feel disillusioned and betrayed. Her dialogue is awful, both in content and in delivery, and until the climax on Scarif, I literally didn't care about her at all.
But the climax on Scarif is great, some of the visuals - mostly destruction sequences - are wonderful, and the side characters steal the show more than once. I started out unimpressed, then actively peeved, but the last half was a steady improvement leading to a great climax. Without the Leia cameo, it would've been a wonderful way to end the film on a high note.
The start is extremely disjointed, with lots of rapid cuts to different planets and a lot of unnecessary exposition (yes, we know the Imperials are building a planet-killer). The two main leads (Jyn and...whoever the other guy was called) are unlikable and poorly performed, and they get a very ham-handed romance in the last half that comes out of nowhere and just looks...eugh. At least it's better than Anakin and Padme.
The first segment of the film is, honestly, kind of a waste of time. Saw Gerrera shows up, is cool for a while, then does nothing. In general, until the midpoint the narrative is rocky, the special effects suck, the dialogue is crappy and laden with exposition (just to make sure that you know that there's a Death Star, but - get this - it has a weakness!!!), there's one incredibly forced cameo that makes no sense in retrospect, and it all turns out to be pointless.
The few high points during the first half were a handful of lines from the droid, Donnie Yen's introduction (all of Donnie Yen, basically), and one or two key scenes that establish that the Rebel Alliance are not all saints and martyrs. In the end, though, the moral ambiguity just does nothing but make me stop caring; the unscrupulous Rebel general pursues a plan that - without spoiling anything - makes no sense in context, and what should have been a mid-film reveal is instead literally stated out aloud by two characters at two separate points in the film.
Then it hits the mid-way point, and it starts to get better. The special effects make a huge jump in quality, leading me to think the earlier segments were mostly reshoots. Donnie Yen and his buddy are great. There's a gorgeous destruction scene involving the Death Star that really deserves a medal. Then the action hits Scarif, and it basically gets great. It's an extended, forty-minute-long war sequence, essentially. You've got AT-ATs, starfighters, star destroyers, there's lasers everywhere, everything explodes - it's great. You can see that this is where the work got put in. The film's central conflict ends nicely, the villain is defeated by irony, everyone gets a chance to shine during the long ensemble action sequences, Scarif is just beautiful, and I don't want to spoil anything but it's sad, and...
...then there's an incredibly forced coda, complete with CGI Carrie Fisher, which exists solely to tie the film in to A New Hope down to the establishing shot. It's awful. It also makes no sense; it shows Bail Organa saying "I'm going to go to Alderaan, wink wink nudge nudge, I know a girl," there's a shot of R2-D2 and C-3PO on Yavin, and then...for some reason Leia and her ship, complete with two droids, are on Scarif later to receive the Death Star plans and flee into hyperspace. It doesn't make any goddamn sense; why would you bring a protocol droid on a warship, why would Leia - a politician - be on the ship and at the battle, why wouldn't she be at Alderaan where we were just told she was, if it was a warship why did Leia insist it was a diplomatic vessel in A New Hope, just...very forced. A disappointing way to end the film.
On cameos: Grand Moff Tarkin makes an extended appearance that some reviewers said was very jarring, because he's being played by CGI Peter Cushing. The CGI is of extremely high quality, but the uncanny valley is still very noticeable. Weirdly, it didn't bother me that much, and when I thought about it I realised why; Tarkin is meant to be creepy and unsettling. Having CGI!Tarkin slam face-first into the uncanny valley works, because it creeps you out to look at the guy! He doesn't look human!
Vader gets a couple of cameos; one in the middle, which is done very well, and one in the end, which literally gave me an erection. He gets to show off, is what I'm saying. He's ultimately tangential to the plot - I was kind of expecting him to have more weight, but maybe they're saving that for a Vader standalone - but he does get to show us all why every Jedi in the galaxy was pissing their pants at the mere mention of this guy's name.
As a final note; if you didn't like TFA because of Daisy Ridley or whatever, blah blah affirmitative action blah Mary Sues blah blah, you won't like Jyn Erso. While I wasn't bothered at all by Ridley's performance in TFA because I found her endearingly earnest, Felicity Jones just really rubs me the wrong way. She's the focus of the plot, and I don't understand why. She has no character development, her sole motivation is finding her father - who similarly gets very little characterisation beyond being a walking plot device - and right at the end of the film she turns into a nigh-suicidal idealist with no real reason other than because the film needs someone to stand up and say something inspiring. All this when any sane person who went through her story would feel disillusioned and betrayed. Her dialogue is awful, both in content and in delivery, and until the climax on Scarif, I literally didn't care about her at all.
But the climax on Scarif is great, some of the visuals - mostly destruction sequences - are wonderful, and the side characters steal the show more than once. I started out unimpressed, then actively peeved, but the last half was a steady improvement leading to a great climax. Without the Leia cameo, it would've been a wonderful way to end the film on a high note.
Overall, a good film but very inconsistent, with clear signs of high-quality special effects and cinematography in the climax sandwiched between a very clumsy and almost shoddily-made opening act and a painfully artificial ending that comes five or ten minutes after the narrative had hit its climax.
(I would blame studio-mandated reshoots for this, as it's difficult to reconcile the gap in quality otherwise, and I really hope that this (along with BvS and Suicide Squad) doesn't start a trend.)
Edit: Oh! Final point: the soundtrack is...bizarre. It's like watching Frankenstein lurch around the place. You're thinking, "oh, this is the Star Wars soundtrack, yeah," and then it just goes somewhere else, and not in a good way, in a weird and bland way that leaves you feeling like you tried to remember the Star Wars theme but got Raiders of the Lost Ark instead.
It's the uncanny valley, but for sound. Awful. Awful, awful, awful.
Do you think you're objectively correct about everything you believe? I mean seriously, now anyone who praises Toy Story is just blinded by nostalgia rather than having any cogent argument to back up their opinion.Zontar said:
Nope, not at all, though that assumption is odd given there's nothing in my comment that implies that was the case, so that's an odd question to come out of nowhere.TheMajesticSpaceDuck said:
But in any event, if you're really going to argue that Toy Story 3 deserves a 99% rating, then you're going to have to actually prove it, because you're the one making an objective claim (that being that Toy Story 3 is one of the greatest movies ever made). Given how the score is almost entirely nostalgia driven (a perfect case in point being countries that didn't have the original two released theatrically giving a significantly lower score to the movie) and the fact the movie has quite a few problems, that's going to be one hell of an uphill argument.
In any event, I've always been open about the fact my own taste is far from great. My favourite movies are ones I wouldn't give more then a 6 to, and some of my favourite games are ones I can understand someone saying it sucks.
You're statement does seem to imply that that's the only reason to rate Toy Story 3 so highly. But if that wasn't how you meant it my bad. I'll drop it.Zontar said:
That's not entirely how reviews work. Also if you're referring to Toy Story's Rotten Tomatoes score that doesn't mean that it has a review score of 99% it just means that 99% of critics on RT gave it a positive review which can range from (I think) 3/5,6/10 or 60% and above. But movies aren't all reviewed on a the same scale. Any 10/10 movie is not being compared to Citizen Kane.
I like the Thrawn trilogy but i don't think you're wrong in calling him a Marty Stu xD I guess part of thrawn's appeal is he is a marty stu for the empire, and when you're kind of sick of the rebels always having everything magically work out for them (will of the force and all that), it was nice having a character on the imperial side who could out-stu them. Even Ackbar, who gets transformed in the EU as some uber military master mind stu (all because he said "it's a trap" in return of the jedi you see, fully demonstrating his grasp of strategy and the obvious) meets his match here.Happyninja42 said:
Even today after much time has passed, that scene still pisses me off.Ezekiel said:
Fuck Poe with a rusty fork, despise that character with the intensity of a thousand suns.
I suppose i should be grateful though, people get defensive when i hate on Rey , but Poe at least is an acceptable target for my disdain.
That's just like, your opinion man. Plus, really hard to say 'worst star wars movie to date' when the Christmas Holiday Special still happened.
Jokes aside, it was alright. A perfectly serviceable use of 2 and a bit hours. A solid 6/10. Main protagonists sucked arse, but the secondary characters were all pretty fun and interesting, which was nice. Didn't really go in expecting much since it's a friggin' movie all about explaining a plot hole that everyone has parodied for the last 30+ years, and it's really hard to pick up the battle flags and proclaim it the worst and/or best movie ever when the entire plot is 'here's why there's a hole in the side of the thing'.
Jokes aside, it was alright. A perfectly serviceable use of 2 and a bit hours. A solid 6/10. Main protagonists sucked arse, but the secondary characters were all pretty fun and interesting, which was nice. Didn't really go in expecting much since it's a friggin' movie all about explaining a plot hole that everyone has parodied for the last 30+ years, and it's really hard to pick up the battle flags and proclaim it the worst and/or best movie ever when the entire plot is 'here's why there's a hole in the side of the thing'.
What, worse than that poorly paced, plothole ridden piece of nonsense with the entirely unlikable, weak protagonist that was the original movie? I'm having a hard time believing that.
(I sometimes restrain myself posting my opinions on these things, but if the OP can be a debbie downer, so can I)
(I sometimes restrain myself posting my opinions on these things, but if the OP can be a debbie downer, so can I)
While I won't proclaim to be an expert in animation, has it occurred to you that if Disney had stubbornly stuck with 2D after Pixar had proven the viability of 3D and say Universal had bought Pixar out then Disney as we know may no longer exist? I know that sounds insane and I love traditional animation too, but Disney made the right choice by seeing where audience wants were going and decided to stay in the game. Like it or lump it champ, but I'll take a world of 3D Disney Animation rather than one where Disney Animation is referred to in wholly past tense.Ezekiel said:
I think Wreck It Ralph is the only movie that benefitted from being CG animated as it actually suited the setting. But yeah, hand drawn or stop motion would be my preference by a huge margin. I think CG is fine, certainly passable but I've never really been blown away by the artwork the way I have been with beautiful traditional animation or stop motion. Even crude animation has managed to be wonderful, like the under water or drug trip episode of Bojack Horseman. Very simple animation style but still manages to do some gorgeous things with limited resources.Ezekiel said:
Just saw it, and I really liked it. It has some problems,mainly the pacing of the first half. The second half more than makes up for it.The main characters are probably the weakest characters but that is mainly due to the relentless pace of the movie not giving them room to flesh out, everyone else is more or less a trope so they didn't need the development. I found the side characters to be wonderful. Donie Yen is fantastic and probably my favorite character followed by k2 and the defector. There is also some winks to fans of the EU that most of the audience wont get, there is also plenty of lame fansevice too. The old republic era is now at least partially canon, although I get the feeling this is mainly to appease EA. Jane Urso isn't really a marry sue in this as her background explains how she is such a good fighter, and I do agree with other posters that her motivation is weak. Its not a perfect movie by any stretch but its different and I appreciate it far more than The Force Awakens, and I liked that movie too. They also had enough material to stretch into two movies which they didn't so kudos to that even though the story may have benefited from that.
In conclusion if you enjoyed watching the Battle of Hoth and the TIE fighter animated short you are going to love the second half of this film.
In conclusion if you enjoyed watching the Battle of Hoth and the TIE fighter animated short you are going to love the second half of this film.
I just got home from it like an hour ago and had a blast with it. As others have said, the first hour is wildly inconsistent. I liked most of the characters except Jyn Urso, but they weren't given much to do. It just plowed through events really quick without letting anything sink in. However, after a certain event in the movie it really started picking up. And the ending battle scene was absolutely astounding. Felt frantic and violent, the scale of the battle was amazing, and everyone got stuff to do. And the very ending, oh my god. I just about had an actual erection at how awesome it was. I have wanted a scene like that since I was a little kid. So overall, I quite liked it. It's not much for characters but it feels like a legit war movie in the Star Wars setting and if you are able to just enjoy the explosions at the end and some of the awesome call backs you'll have a great time. I'll probably see it again