Rogue One may be the worst Star Wars movie to date

[Dalisclock]

Just saw it and enjoyed it. Fan Servicey, yep. First act was kind of all over the place. Sure. However, it got better as it went and it was fun to watch. It actually felt like a proper War/Commando movie rather then another chapter in the saga about 3 generations of whiney skywalkers.

Occasionally I was taken out of it by the wierdness of how the imperial military does business. Particularly how the archive tower works. Such as a civilization that has FTL travel/communication and planet destroying doomsday weapons doesn't understand digital storage and retrieval(or even automated retrieval, which the soda machine at work can pull off). Or the bizarrely inconsistent speed of the explosion on Jedha, which moved super slow until they got to their ship and then it moved super fast to they couldn't escape it without FTL.

As far as CGI, I can't tell if they CGId Peter Cushings face but the deaging Carrie Fisher just looked kinda wierd.

 

[Hades]

My biggest concern is the main character. In the first trailer she really came off as an insufferable brat who was to ''cool'' to for ya rulez man and never listened.

 

[Samtemdo8_v1legacy]

Where's this 99 percent? The RT page says 100 percent. 100 percent just means 100 percent of the 78 gave it a positive review; not that it's one of the greatest, most perfect movies ever made. And they're correct. It is a good movie.

Having said that, I hate the movie for killing (superior) 2D animation.

......When has Star Wars movies ever been 2D animation?

Think he's talking about the first Toy Story movie.

Yes. There's not a single CG animated movie that I wouldn't rather see traditionally animated. Toy Story was the beginning of the end.

I adore 2D traditional animation, but I also like CGI animation.....at least only this kind of CGI Animation, the Hyper Photo Realistic kind:


I just find making such realistic charcaters in CG fascinating.

But that kind of CGI is not popular, its always this kind of CG animation that's mainstream and prevailing:

 

[RedDeadFred]

Saw it, not even close to the worst one.

There were some wasted characters and the build up to getting everyone together was kind of meh, but I loved just about everything else. I liked that they showed that the Rebellion isn't just some wonderful shining light of goodness. The characters are morally grey and the Rebellion does some things that will make you question them.

Also, I like that the movie didn't really go where I thought:

Spoiler: DO NOT FUCKING CLICK IF YOU HAVE NOT SEEN IT

Seriously, who thought Disney would have the balls to kill off all the main characters? I know everyone kind of thought it would make sense for them all to die, but this is a movie that Disney knows there's going to be piles of kids seeing. You'd think they'd do some kind of write out of the series, but not kill off kind of move. Nope, everyone is dead.

Also, I actually think the movie makes A New Hope better. One of the movie's central plot points nicely addresses a major plothole of the first movie.

Word of advice: don't go in expecting a Vader movie. He's there, but not much. I wasn't expecting him to be a major part and what he was there for was great.

I think I liked it more than the prequel trilogy and A New Hope.

 

[Dazzle Novak]

Rogue One was better than Episode VII for me, and there was actually a point where it was right underneath Empire Strikes Back for my favorite Star Wars experience ever, but the filmmakers snatched defeat from the jaws of victory.

The first act is great and the film as a whole looks gorgeous, but moves at such a pace (somehow not even quickly) that it runs right past a lot of necessary character development. The plot around the periphery is actually surprisingly shaded and developed, but the main characters rarely evolve beyond their one trait and do the Suicide Squad thing of declaring each other blood brothers/sisters despite not actually having talked to one another beyond brief exchanges of exposition and quips.

Say what you will about the ridiculous horse-shit that is the Fast and Furious franchise, but their declarations of "family" at least has shared history behind it.

A "for example":

Spoiler: Character introduction

When Blind Chinese Monk is introduced (yes, it's a bad sign I can't remember his name), it's as a street fortune-teller or something and he and Jyn start getting into a debate about "the Force". So far, so good. Then, in a move serving as metaphor for the entire film, handsome sidekick tells her to hurry up because they've got plot to run to and we hardly hear Chinese Monk speak words other than "I am one with the force, the force is with me" like some evangelical Pokemon ever again.

tl;dr: Act One = Great, Act Two = Somehow both rushes and drags, Act Three = Good, but lacking necessary context.

Edit: As an aside, facial CG just ain't there yet, filmmakers. Don't have it front and center.

 

[Dansen]

My biggest concern is the main character. In the first trailer she really came off as an insufferable brat who was to ''cool'' to for ya rulez man and never listened.

well she ain't that, maybe in the first fifteen minutes slightly, but that disappears.

 

[Dalisclock]

My biggest concern is the main character. In the first trailer she really came off as an insufferable brat who was to ''cool'' to for ya rulez man and never listened.

well she ain't that, maybe in the first fifteen minutes slightly, but that disappears.

Yeah, almost shockingly fast. Her swing from "I don't want to be part of your war" to "Rebellions are built on hope" seems to happen really, really quickly.

 

[EternallyBored]

Not even close to the worst Star Wars movie, I liked this one more than any of the prequel movies, and it definitely wasn't rehashing plot points as much as VII did, it reminds me of Return of the Jedi, competent, fun, with some flaws and stupid points.

I worry we will get Star Wars fatigue with all these movies, but right now at least I prefer Disney's careful but competent approach over Lucas' bombastic screw ups.

 

[Fox12]

Worse then the prequels? Worse then The Force Awakens?! I don't actually think that's possible. The film could be nothing but four hours of watching John Water's taint, and it would still be much better then The Force Awakens.

Still, this is disappointing. I was hoping that this would be the film that reignited my faith in the franchise. Clearly this is not the case.

Did you see it? I should be seeing it tomorrow. I hated TFA, cause well, it was a poor rehash of A New Hope with a mary sue, and though I liked Finn, his escape was... counter to his characterization.

My brother and I have been watching the old Star Wars movies, and just have Return of the Jedi left, and its interesting seeing what I had not before, such as...Yoda is awful, and the original Trilogy put TOOOOOOONS of effort into either training Luke to be awesome, or giving a reason why he can do what he does.

But Rogue One, well, it is still going to rip off an old Star Wars, but its a now non-canon DOOM style FPS, so it wont bother me as much. (Though RIP Kyle Catarn). It being more focused on a smaller event and not staring a Jedi, makes me hopeful.

Still, the next Episode film I will be going in quite cynical, but we will see. Episode I was awful, but II and III were better than the one before it, if nothing else.

Welp, I thought I'd update since I just watched it. It had some problems, but I thought it was a great film. Probably the best action film of the year. I would even say it was better then I expected.

I would place it above the prequels and episode seven by a large margin. They're not even in the same league. I almost placed it above Return of the Jedi, but they screwed the pooch in the last five seconds or so.

Pros

Spoiler

I liked that the Rebellion came across as a paranoid terrorist group that had to get their hands dirty in order to achieve their goals. I especially like the fact that one of their top military commanders turned into Captain Kurtz, and disappeared into the dessert. They come across as somewhat deranged and ruthless, and less naive. Both sides of the conflict felt more fleshed out and realistic.

I liked the special effects. There was a clear effort to make everything feel grounded in reality. The practical effects were much better then in TFA. It was a refreshing change of pace.

It made the Empire threatening again. Seeing the Death Star eclipse the sun before blowing up a city was incredible. It only destroyed a single city, and yet it felt more threatening then when Death Planet blew up an entire solar system in Episode 7. The storm troopers and AT-AT's felt like a real threat, and Vader's scene near the end felt like a scene from a horror movie. It was phenomenal.

The script was much more focused then 7, and the characters were far more likable. Characters behaved in a rational way for once, and the writers clearly wrote more then a single draft. It wasn't perfect, but it makes me feel like Disney might actually be able to take the franchise in the right direction. They actually took some risks with this one, and they paid off in a big way.

Cons

Spoiler

There was some choppy editing at the start of the film. It doesn't really hurt the film, and I thought it was good the whole way through, but it definitely jumps around a lot.

The beginning and end were too abrupt. It just throws you into the film, and then it just throws you out. The film's climax was phenomenal, but then it just sort of stops.

Addressing some unfair criticisms

Spoiler

I didn't feel like the protagonist was much of a Mary Sue. She knew how to fight, but that should be expected from the main character of an action thriller. She wasn't even the best fighter in the group, and seeing as she was raised my a guerrilla warfare terrorist, I would expect her to be able to handle herself.

As for her switching sides so quickly, I thought it made perfect sense. The Empire destroyed her family, so of course she hates them. The film specifically tells us that she used to fight in a rebellion force, so it's not like this is unprecedented. She wasn't jaded because the Rebellion was immoral, she was jaded because they left her behind when she was sixteen. Furthermore, her whole motivation is meeting her father. Seeing as her fathers dying wish was for her to correct his mistakes, I think it's easy to see why she would go from jaded anti-hero to idealistic rebel leader. That was always an aspect of her character.

I didn't think the romance was forced at all. It doesn't even really go anywhere. There's a scene near the end where the main characters briefly hold hands, but it didn't even feel particularly romantic. It felt more like they were comforting each other moments before the end. It's not like they declared their undying love for each other and shared a passionate kiss. It was understated, and barely even there at all. They acted like people who respected, but barely knew, each other. I don't really get this complaint.

 

[Pyrian]

My biggest concern is the main character. In the first trailer she really came off as an insufferable brat who was to ''cool'' to for ya rulez man and never listened.

well she ain't that, maybe in the first fifteen minutes slightly, but that disappears.

Yeah, almost shockingly fast. Her swing from "I don't want to be part of your war" to "Rebellions are built on hope" seems to happen really, really quickly.

Not really? I mean, not by movie standards.

Spoiler

She reluctantly agrees to the first mission, ignores her Dad's instructions to mount a rescue attempt, and only after he dies in her arms does she decide to attempt to complete his life's work and dying wish. It's tropey and they don't really dwell on it, but as movie motivations go, I'd say it's relatively well established.

 

[bastardofmelbourne]

Addressing some unfair criticisms

Spoiler

I didn't feel like the protagonist was much of a Mary Sue. She knew how to fight, but that should be expected from the main character of an action thriller. She wasn't even the best fighter in the group, and seeing as she was raised my a guerrilla warfare terrorist, I would expect her to be able to handle herself.

As for her switching sides so quickly, I thought it made perfect sense. The Empire destroyed her family, so of course she hates them. The film specifically tells us that she used to fight in a rebellion force, so it's not like this is unprecedented. She wasn't jaded because the Rebellion was immoral, she was jaded because they left her behind when she was sixteen. Furthermore, her whole motivation is meeting her father. Seeing as her fathers dying wish was for her to correct his mistakes, I think it's easy to see why she would go from jaded anti-hero to idealistic rebel leader. That was always an aspect of her character.

I didn't think the romance was forced at all. It doesn't even really go anywhere. There's a scene near the end where the main characters briefly hold hands, but it didn't even feel particularly romantic. It felt more like they were comforting each other moments before the end. It's not like they declared their undying love for each other and shared a passionate kiss. It was understated, and barely even there at all. They acted like people who respected, but barely knew, each other. I don't really get this complaint.

Spoiler

She's not really a Mary Sue, but I found her unlikable nonetheless. The supporting cast was much more entertaining.

Her switching sides makes much less sense if you remember that it was a Rebel bombing run that killed her father, not the Empire. For her to swing so strongly towards the Rebel side after that - and especially after the Rebels ignore her father's message - seems a little off. If I were her, and I found out that this Rebellion that I didn't even trust to begin with turned out to be untrustworthy, I wouldn't continue trusting them.

As for the romance - you're right, everyone dies before it goes anywhere, but there were some very painful longing glances shared between the two of them after her father died that seemed to come out of nowhere. The pair had zero chemistry, no common ground, and she'd just found out that he had been trying to assassinate her father the entire time. For them to suddenly start gazing into each other's eyes seemed unrealistic. It just felt forced, like they'd gotten two-thirds of the way through the film and shouted "Wait, we need a romance!"

Oh, one more bit of fridge logic:

Spoiler

It makes no sense for the Rebel general to order Whatshisface to kill Jyn's father. I mean, he's already finished the Death Star. The Rebels know that, and they ought to know that their best chance of fighting against it is to get its chief architect on their side. Then they wouldn't need to make a long-shot suicide attack on Scarif; they'd have the brains right there with them.

 

[Fox12]

Addressing some unfair criticisms

Spoiler

I didn't feel like the protagonist was much of a Mary Sue. She knew how to fight, but that should be expected from the main character of an action thriller. She wasn't even the best fighter in the group, and seeing as she was raised my a guerrilla warfare terrorist, I would expect her to be able to handle herself.

As for her switching sides so quickly, I thought it made perfect sense. The Empire destroyed her family, so of course she hates them. The film specifically tells us that she used to fight in a rebellion force, so it's not like this is unprecedented. She wasn't jaded because the Rebellion was immoral, she was jaded because they left her behind when she was sixteen. Furthermore, her whole motivation is meeting her father. Seeing as her fathers dying wish was for her to correct his mistakes, I think it's easy to see why she would go from jaded anti-hero to idealistic rebel leader. That was always an aspect of her character.

I didn't think the romance was forced at all. It doesn't even really go anywhere. There's a scene near the end where the main characters briefly hold hands, but it didn't even feel particularly romantic. It felt more like they were comforting each other moments before the end. It's not like they declared their undying love for each other and shared a passionate kiss. It was understated, and barely even there at all. They acted like people who respected, but barely knew, each other. I don't really get this complaint.

Spoiler

She's not really a Mary Sue, but I found her unlikable nonetheless. The supporting cast was much more entertaining.

Her switching sides makes much less sense if you remember that it was a Rebel bombing run that killed her father, not the Empire. For her to swing so strongly towards the Rebel side after that - and especially after the Rebels ignore her father's message - seems a little off. If I were her, and I found out that this Rebellion that I didn't even trust to begin with turned out to be untrustworthy, I wouldn't continue trusting them.

As for the romance - you're right, everyone dies before it goes anywhere, but there were some very painful longing glances shared between the two of them after her father died that seemed to come out of nowhere. The pair had zero chemistry, no common ground, and she'd just found out that he had been trying to assassinate her father the entire time. For them to suddenly start gazing into each other's eyes seemed unrealistic. It just felt forced, like they'd gotten two-thirds of the way through the film and shouted "Wait, we need a romance!"

Oh, one more bit of fridge logic:

Spoiler

It makes no sense for the Rebel general to order Whatshisface to kill Jyn's father. I mean, he's already finished the Death Star. The Rebels know that, and they ought to know that their best chance of fighting against it is to get its chief architect on their side. Then they wouldn't need to make a long-shot suicide attack on Scarif; they'd have the brains right there with them.

Was she ever really fond of the Rebels, though? I never got that impression. I figured that she was clearly using them to accomplish her goals. They had an army, and she couldn't accomplish her mission alone. She basically yells at them in the staff room, and then storms off when they prove to be cowards. Then she grabs some of their best soldiers and goes completely rogue, showing a complete disregard for their orders. I never got the impression that she cared about the Rebel Alliance at all. They were just a means to an end.

As for the bit about killing her father, I thought that they were trying to kill him before he could complete the Death Star? The main laser wasn't finished yet, and the main rebel force didn't know about the space station at all until after he'd been killed. I did think that it was dumb that the one dude tried to snipe him after they'd seen a whole city get destroyed by the Death Star. Obviously he changed his mind, but it shouldn't have taken that long. I'll have to rewatch it again.

 

[Neverhoodian]

Right, I finally got around to seeing it, and-

Seriously though, this is the kind of Star Wars movie I've been wanting for years now. Finally, a Star Wars film that isn't afraid to mix things up and deviate from the formula.

Spoiler: What I loved

-SPACE BATTLES! HONEST-TO-GOD SPACE BATTLES!

-K-2SO was definitely a show stealer with his hilarious, brutally honest observations. Chirrut Imwe also had some great moments ("You're kidding, right? I'm blind!"). Consequently, I had the most feels for their respective death scenes. Speaking of Chirrut, it was great to see another Force-sensitive that isn't a Jedi or Sith. Also, "Keeper of the Whills..." I see what you did there...

-All the call-outs to the Expanded Universe, both old and new; I practically squee'd when the OG Juggernaut came roaring over the ridge, and the Hammerhead corvette scene is probably the closest we'll ever get to seeing KOTOR on the silver screen. It was cool seeing Saw Guerrera again after Clone Wars, and there were several references to Rebels, from subtle name-dropping via Yavin IV's PA system to the Ghost participating in the space battle.

-Gray areas in a setting known for its black-and-white morality. The Rebels aren't all squeaky clean goody-two-shoes and the Empire aren't comprised entirely of psychopaths...at least, not when it comes to the rank and file. I felt genuinely bad for the deaths of some Stormtroopers. Take the one with the scuffed-up armor on the Juggernaut, for instance. The poor blighter looked like he was sick of his job and just wanted to go home.

-CGI Tarkin was nothing short of jaw-dropping. If it wasn't for subtle giveaways in the animation and the slightly-off voice actor (they should have gone with the one from Rebels, he sounded like the real deal) I would have sworn it was a clone of Mr. Cushing himself circa '77. Red and Gold leaders were also quite impressive (also, RIP original Red 5. Why are the chubby pilots always the first to go?).

-The Empire having an effective military? Surely you jest! Seriously though, Rebel ships and soldiers were dropping like flies.

-Goddamn, that scene with Vader at the end was terrifying. It touched off long-forgotten memories of the first time I saw him as a young, easily frightened child. It was visceral, brutal and blatant fan-service...and I loved every second of it.

I'll admit it's not perfect-

Spoiler: Stuff I didn't care for

-The movie is all over the place at first...literally. I liked seeing different locales and all, but the degree of planet-hopping was overkill.

-"Be careful not to CHOKE on your ambitions, Krennic."

-The Rebel council scene with the "we'd better surrender now!" bit. It ultimately served no purpose other than for Jyn to give a generic "we just have to BELIEEEEEEVE in ourselves!" speech. It also made it seem like the Rebel Alliance wasn't all that committed to its cause if it was willing to roll over and die that quickly. Besides, it's not like anybody believed they were going to go through with it; we've all seen A New Hope, for crying out loud!

-Certain plot points were not only predictable, but telegraphed too far away. This robbed some of the more dramatic scenes of their intended emotional weight.

-While the model for CGI Leia was impressive, the animation plunged it straight into the Uncanny Valley. Shame that's what the movie ends on.

-but goddamn, this got me psyched far more than TFA did.

 

[jademunky]

Just saw it 20 minutes ago and it was great!

Seriously, I would rank it at #3 in my list of Star Wars movies, way better than any of the prequels more interesting characters than Ep VII, best space battles in franchise history.

Really, my only problem with it is with the CGI on a couple human characters (particularly juxtaposed against real-life actors) and the fact that a certain other famous characters outfit looks a little...........plastic haloween costumey.

 

[Kyrian007]

Action scenes are usually more breathtaking and intense when they're somewhat grounded. Why do you think people liked the lightsaber battle in VII so much?

Wait, people liked that scene? I've never heard anyone praise it, even those who like TFA. For me, it's the worst lightsaber duel in all the movies, without any payoff on the wow or emotional factors.

I remember people appreciating that the combatants used their weapons with brute force (Rey apparently wielded it like her staff earlier in the movie.) and emotion, and not doing a bunch of useless, exhausting twirls and spins like in the prequels. They also liked how the sabers burned into the snow and how the characters were grazed and crippled. I would rank it between the prequels and originals, with Jedi and Empire being at the top.

That's exactly why I liked the duel in TFA. It wasn't a wirefu flipout with supposedly good guys executing unnecessary jumps flips and spins designed to wildly flail enormously dangerous weapons around in a fashion almost guaranteed to be as dangerous to allies and bystanders and yourself as much as it is to your enemy (even if it looks cool.) The slower, grander and more sweeping lightsaber duels of the orig trig were limited by the effects of the day. The sabers actually were wielded as if they had weight, which they obviously did not in the prequels. But given the dangerous potential of a weapon that can cut through anything I thought the original version was more appropriate. The weapons did have weight... responsibility and safety. A weapon you had to have complete control over to operate in a safe manner. Even Sith who wouldn't care about teammates and bystanders still have to maintain tight control to avoid decapitating themselves or slicing the floor out from under themselves. And I thought TFA added that sense of weight back into the duels... making them better than they had been since Jedi.

And Rogue One... I liked it. It wasn't without problems. I didn't need to see Peter Cushing cgied alive. The story didn't need him or Tarkin at all for that matter. Same goes for Red Leader. It looked so bad it was jarring. And just in general I had higher hopes for it. Ever since reading Wraith Squadron, that's the Star Wars story I wanted to see. The Dirty Dozen in space. And so it was impossible for me not have very high expectations for what was being billed as EXACTLY the Star Wars movie I wanted to see. But I'm not getting a lot of the criticisms.

People have been complaining about plot holes. And just like in TFA and really in every other movie, I can explain the "plot holes" away easily (a conceit of mine... my assertion that plot holes don't actually exist in works of fiction.)

People have been complaining about "mary sue/stu" characters. Yes, that's called being a protagonist. Sorry, but I don't need to "identify" with a protagonist. I'm perfectly capable of liking a character who's better than myself at everything... even one who seems to have no flaws. Even one that seems better at something than they logically should be. Some people are just good at stuff, one of my best friends can pick up a musical instrument he's never played and be fairly proficient within a week. There are (gasp) even times that a girl is better than me at something (or many things for that matter.) And when that happens in real life or a movie I'm ok with that, and can still root for that woman. To the folks complaining about Poe in the dogfight scene in TFA... I can rack up that many kills in that amount of time against TIEs in the X-Wing game. Because you are the hero in that game, that's how its built. Just like in a movie.

People have been complaining that the characters "aren't memorable." Uhh, yeah. This is a war movie. About soldiers, the real heroes that are actually responsible for victory. Not just the heroes that are the "face" of victory who's legends are built on mounds of the corpses of the real soldiers. The "rogues" are not the Lukes, or the Hans, or freaking princesses. And the bad guys, yeah not the "name" supervillains. Just the nameless commanders of an empire built on the bureaucracy of millions of faceless villains like that one. Its "a Star Wars story," not "its Star Wars." And that's exactly just like it was billed.

It was begging for more comic relief, and I wanted to see more "gritty hero doing bad things for the cause" than Cassian's one measly murder. But its a small complaint... he did flat out murder a CI. But overall, I liked the movie. I also really like the idea that "a Star Wars story" doesn't have to be the same kind of movie as the main storyline. Just as the Marvel movies have a tech thriller, super spy film, war movie, a fantasy... basically different genres of movies. Star Wars can now give us more than just "space opera." I'm all for that.

I read the escapist's current movie reviewer's (Marter? or whatever) first review after they let go of Bob. I decided his opinion of movies was different than mine and therefore of no use to me. Now I've read his review of Rogue One... the Escapist made a huge mistake.

 

[Zhukov]

Well, ended up seeing it a lot earlier than planned.

Ehh, it's alright.

The first half is messy. The characters are all rather one-note, although I suppose that's standard for a Star Wars film. It deals in some heavy cliche. There are a bunch blatantly lingering fan-service moments that really didn't need to be there.

Then the second half rolls around and everything gets a whole lot better. Although, weirdly, the main character does absolutely sweet fuck all during the climax.

The action is a mixed bag. Sometimes it's goofy, often it's alright, occasionally it's pretty fucking great.

My main general complaint is that it doesn't live up to its premise. It seems to be trying to be a Jedi-free war movie in the Star Wars universe. And when it's being that it's pretty cool. Then they succumb to temptation and make someone blurt out something inane about The Force and have Vader poke his nose in because apparently they're scared we'll forget we're watching a Star Wars movie.

So yeah. Okay movie. Could have been fantastic.

 

[hermes]

It can't be the worst Star Wars movie to date. Unless it is worst than Lucas writing Twilight level of romancing, and I seriously doubt it.

 

[bastardofmelbourne]

Then they succumb to temptation and make someone blurt out something inane about The Force and have Vader poke his nose in because apparently they're scared we'll forget we're watching a Star Wars movie.

I like the idea that the Force exists as an in-universe religion practiced by people who aren't Force-sensitive. Jedi are super rare, but the Force exists separately to them, so it makes sense that it would take a deity-like role in some cultures.

And Vader was like...man, a Vader standalone hasn't been confirmed, I think they had to put him in before James Earl Jones fucking dies. He has less screen time than the Joker did in Suicide Squad, but he makes it count. And...that scene, at the end. Popping that at the end of a movie about normal people with blasters is like dropping Superman into Gotham. Or a Space Marine into a Dark Heresy game. It's just like, "oh shit, that's why they're usually the main characters." It was well done.

New pet peeves: In retrospect, I'm really annoyed at all the missed opportunities for the Wilhelm scream. Combine that with the like-Star-Wars-but-not soundtrack, the lack of an opening crawl or anything...it felt kinda like the tofu version of Star Wars. "I can't believe it's not Star Wars" Star Wars. It was fun, at least the second half was, but it just didn't feel like a Star Wars movie. It's like doing a Bond film without a fancy car or some kind of cool gadget, or the down-the-barrel opening sequence.

Maybe that was deliberate; I kind of think it was a poor choice, however. Throwing in inane fanservice shout-outs is no substitute for properly capturing the feel of a Star Wars movie.

 

[Zhukov]

And Vader was like...man, a Vader standalone hasn't been confirmed, I think they had to put him in before James Earl Jones fucking dies. He has less screen time than the Joker did in Suicide Squad, but he makes it count. And...that scene, at the end. Popping that at the end of a movie about normal people with blasters is like dropping Superman into Gotham. Or a Space Marine into a Dark Heresy game. It's just like, "oh shit, that's why they're usually the main characters." It was well done.

Oh yeah, I liked that scene too. It served a purpose, unlike many of the others.

New pet peeves: In retrospect, I'm really annoyed at all the missed opportunities for the Wilhelm scream. Combine that with the like-Star-Wars-but-not soundtrack, the lack of an opening crawl or anything...it felt kinda like the tofu version of Star Wars. "I can't believe it's not Star Wars" Star Wars. It was fun, at least the second half was, but it just didn't feel like a Star Wars movie. It's like doing a Bond film without a fancy car or some kind of cool gadget, or the down-the-barrel opening sequence.

Maybe that was deliberate; I kind of think it was a poor choice, however. Throwing in inane fanservice shout-outs is no substitute for properly capturing the feel of a Star Wars movie.

See, as someone who is decidedly lukewarm on Star Wars in general I was hoping for something less, well... less Star Wars. I realise that might seem irrational, but it often seemed like the movie was trying to be just that.

Instead of committing they sort of hovered in the middle, so they ended up with something that wasn't Star Wars enough for you but was a bit too Star Wars for me.

(I have now written "star wars" enough times that it's starting to sound funny in my head.)

 

[Pyrian]

Instead of committing they sort of hovered in the middle, so they ended up with something that wasn't Star Wars enough for you but was a bit too Star Wars for me.

I think you might both be just a bit too picky about things that really shouldn't matter so much. ;P I mean, there's plenty to criticize in the movie, but that sort of thing just seems kind of silly, when you've got fundamental issues like the jumpy and disjointed first third(?) of the movie.