Rogue Squadron (Patty Jenkins, Christmas 2023)

Bob_McMillan

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How does that work? Wonder Woman and Star Wars aren't as far removed as you might think (swords and magic for instance)
Personally, I'd say that Jenkins does pretty well at establishing relationships between characters, but can't direct action scenes. Wonder Woman was made with a lot of obvious input from Zack Snyder and his team, which is why the action sequences in the movie are leagues above Wonder Woman 84. The action in WW84 was genuinely embarrassing.

Star Wars has always been known for it's action set pieces. To be frank, if Jenkins can't even direct a fight between two people (specifically a bird person and a cat person), I don't know she could possibly make a good Star Wars dogfighting scene. Maybe the fact that her father was a pilot would have brought something to the table, but I guess we may never know now.

Anyway, somewhat related news.


I'm not one of those people who think Kathleen Kennedy is the sole mastermind of the franchise's destruction, but I am surprised that Disney is willing to keep her around. It feels like less than half of what has been announced for Star Wars has actually come out. And while Star Wars has still been insanely profitable since it was purchased by Disney, the Mouse is greedy as fuck and it's weird that they aren't angry that they could have had twice as much.
 

BrawlMan

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Wonder Woman was made with a lot of obvious input from Zack Snyder and his team, which is why the action sequences in the movie are leagues above Wonder Woman 84. The action in WW84 was genuinely embarrassing.
While I agree with the action being better in the first WW movie, I would not call WW84 embarrassing. Flawed yes, and either some unfinished CG in one segment, or obvious CG in that chase sequence, but otherwise, the action is good all things considered. Now when the third movie comes out, they will have no excuses at this point.
 

Bob_McMillan

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While I agree with the action being better in the first WW movie, I would not call WW84 embarrassing. Flawed yes, and either some unfinished CG in one segment, or obvious CG in that chase sequence, but otherwise, the action is good all things considered. Now when the third movie comes out, they will have no excuses at this point.
I can forgive the car chase scene CGI, but the final fight between Cheetah and Diana is an absolute wet fart of a climax.
 

Bob_McMillan

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That’s because the fight with Cheetah isn’t the climax and wasn’t supposed to be. The climax is against Maxwell Lord.
Considering the only reason Cheetah exists is so Lord has a proxy that Diana can have a punch up with, I'd say the whole radar dish island scene is the climax.
 

Hawki

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People keep complaining the MCU movies all look the same because they have a unified aesthetic but now we’re turning around and complaining that WW84 doesn’t look like Shazam? You can’t have it both ways.
Actually, it's question of continuity rather than aesthetic. And WW1984 has the following problems:

-Diana's status in BvS is that she's slacked off the job for quite awhile. We can assume that means that from WWI to the present (then, 2016), she wasn't doing much. However, she's very active in WW1984. So apparently she lost faith in humanity between 1984 and 2016, not 1918 and 2016. The latter is understandable, the former? What happened between 1984 and 2016 that compares to the carnage of two world wars for instance?

-Bruce is able to find out Diana's identity via a WWI photo, but somehow doesn't have access to any footage of her in 1984? Yes, we see her removing cameras in a mall, but come on, nothing she does in 1984 is subtle. Surely she'd have been seen by someone, somewhere.

-It doesn't quite work in terms of 'emergence.' The core theme of MoS-BvS-JL is that the "Age of Heroes" has returned after a long absence. That this is the start of a new era, so to speak. However, WW1984 has outright magic that's on display to the world, from walls rising from the ground, to every other wish. The world in WW1984 is a lot more fantastical than MoS presents.

In other words, it's a case of prequel syndrome, where you have a series that starts with an inciting incident (MoS), then all this other stuff that reduces the impact of said incident (WW1984).

Personally, I'd say that Jenkins does pretty well at establishing relationships between characters, but can't direct action scenes. Wonder Woman was made with a lot of obvious input from Zack Snyder and his team, which is why the action sequences in the movie are leagues above Wonder Woman 84. The action in WW84 was genuinely embarrassing.
There's still the original Wonder Woman movie though. That had pretty good action, not to mention the No Man's Land scene.

Oh, and the car chase. That was neat.

And to be frank, the action scenes in the sequel trilogy aren't much to write home about, especially with the lightsaber fights. It's not as if Jenkins is alone in this. Probably the best examples are in Last Jedi, both for action (throne room) and emotional impact (Luke vs. Ben), but on the other hand, take the tripe that was TFA's lightsaber scenes. Bleh.
 

Gordon_4

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Actually, it's question of continuity rather than aesthetic. And WW1984 has the following problems:

-Diana's status in BvS is that she's slacked off the job for quite awhile. We can assume that means that from WWI to the present (then, 2016), she wasn't doing much. However, she's very active in WW1984. So apparently she lost faith in humanity between 1984 and 2016, not 1918 and 2016. The latter is understandable, the former? What happened between 1984 and 2016 that compares to the carnage of two world wars for instance?
This one I am frankly prepared to let slide because the more the greater DCEU movies ignore Batman v. Superman and Justice League, frankly the better. Because those are the only two movies upon which it has any significant impact. There's also the not unfounded idea that since the 1980s - at least to listen to people ***** on the internet - were actually a pretty good time overall and its entirely possible Diana's retreat was less out of a loss of faith but rather confidence that the human race is very much getting its shit together and by and large does not need her for the day to day happenings.

-Bruce is able to find out Diana's identity via a WWI photo, but somehow doesn't have access to any footage of her in 1984? Yes, we see her removing cameras in a mall, but come on, nothing she does in 1984 is subtle. Surely she'd have been seen by someone, somewhere.
I am frankly happy to accept that because I feel that the modern era of smartphones and the internet has made us forget that outside of posed, high quality archival footage, video quality wasn't fantastic. And security footage was usually in black and white and very low resolution, and habitually taped over on the same tapes until they had nearly worn them out with degradation occurring with each go over. And most of the good footage that survived is going to be of Maxwell Lord, not Diana.

With that said...


-It doesn't quite work in terms of 'emergence.' The core theme of MoS-BvS-JL is that the "Age of Heroes" has returned after a long absence. That this is the start of a new era, so to speak. However, WW1984 has outright magic that's on display to the world, from walls rising from the ground, to every other wish. The world in WW1984 is a lot more fantastical than MoS presents.

In other words, it's a case of prequel syndrome, where you have a series that starts with an inciting incident (MoS), then all this other stuff that reduces the impact of said incident (WW1984).
This one is a genuine problem and one of the fairest criticisms I've come across. Like I said before, ignoring both BvS and JL is fine because they're frankly rubbish and are a noose around the other film's necks, but Man of Steel - for all its flaws - was the first cab off the rank and brought us who should have been the Superman of a generation. But all that massive earth shifting and other events in 84 should have had attention called to them. Unless of course the act of unmaking the wishes removes everyone's memories of making them and undoes all the damage. And that is not at any point made clear. That it those events are never mentioned in anyway has no reasonable explanation. Except perhaps, they're treated as just par for the course as a historical event but it never comes up.
 
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Hawki

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its entirely possible Diana's retreat was less out of a loss of faith but rather confidence that the human race is very much getting its shit together and by and large does not need her for the day to day happenings.
Very unlikely though. Consider her words in BvS, where she tells Bruce (paraphrased) "men created a world where it was impossible to stand together." In the time period from 1984 to 2016, there's arguably some evidence for that, but not nearly as much as the 20th century, where not only do you have two world wars, but the Cold War that follows. Consider that post-84, we had the end of the Cold War, and a pretty good run at world peace, comparatively speaking.
 

Gordon_4

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Very unlikely though. Consider her words in BvS, where she tells Bruce (paraphrased) "men created a world where it was impossible to stand together." In the time period from 1984 to 2016, there's arguably some evidence for that, but not nearly as much as the 20th century, where not only do you have two world wars, but the Cold War that follows. Consider that post-84, we had the end of the Cold War, and a pretty good run at world peace, comparatively speaking.
This is a fair stroke, but again, the only two movies it hurts are BvS and JL; the end of Wonder Woman merely implies Diana enters a period of mourning which would be completely natural. The two that can be most easily ignored. Which again I know is a bit of a cop out, but if you do ignore them then the rest of the films fit together just fine. Those two really are fucking lodestones around the overall neck of the endeavour.

Anyway I think we're veering off topic; if Patty Jenkins is replaced due to creative differences or whatever else, I think that's a shame but someone else will fill the spot. Though considering Rogue Squadron is supposed to be a dog fighting movie, I'm surprised as all shit no one thought of trying to bring Tony Scott back from the dead.
 
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