Role-Playing Games

[Skooterz]

JRPGs, for example, could be easily reclassified as 'Stupid Gay Rubbish'.

I could not agree with you more. How does anybody actually stay awake for the entire game? I tried playing one of the Final Fantasy games at a friends house- don't even remember which one, but my only reaction after about twenty minutes was 'bored bored bored'.

I agree that the classic genres are far too general for this day and age, where most titles have elements from several different types of game.

 

[Mr.Squishy]

Your arrogant attitude came across particularly sour today. -_-

Word

 

[Shannador]

You can tell it's a slow time of year when this debate comes to the forefront. Categories for games are at best a generalization, and at worst an out-right lie by a company ashamed of what they've created, see Brutal Legend.

As for Borderlands, I don't know if it is the sort of thing Yahtzee would enjoy. I play it, I enjoy the style, but more importantly I enjoy it because I like the people in my team and am a big fan of Co-op style gameplay. The ZP review of it would point out that a game full of loot, that exists solely for the purpose of collecting said loot is kind of an easy, self-fulfilling effort. He would probably also just love the Claptraps, as he's always been a big fan of the chatty but otherwise useless sidekick, see GTA4 and all the retards that call you on the phone.

I've never allowed a ZP review to impact my decision to buy a game, partly because bad press is fun and easy, but mostly because by the time a review is posted, I've already made the purchase in the US.

Keep on keeping on Yahtzee.

 

[PedroSteckecilo]

JRPGs, for example, could be easily reclassified as 'Stupid Gay Rubbish'.

I could not agree with you more. How does anybody actually stay awake for the entire game? I tried playing one of the Final Fantasy games at a friends house- don't even remember which one, but my only reaction after about twenty minutes was 'bored bored bored'.

I agree that the classic genres are far too general for this day and age, where most titles have elements from several different types of game.

thinks he's in a position to criticize the whole genre

I think you've described about 90% of the people on this site. Hell I think you've described Yahtzee himself.

 

[bakonslayer]

Where do genre names in gaming come from? Someone should figure this out, because I have the feeling that they originally come from the labels on Blockbuster games. If they don't then I assume that they are a very strong source for some of our current classifications. Because I remember growing up seeing purple rental game boxes with only the title of the game, a synopsis on the back, a rating, and (most importantly) a genre title such as "adventure" or "beat-em-up" or "racing" on the top of the box.

Either way, I think if we found the source of the names, then it would explain a lot about why things were named the way they were named.

 

[V TheSystem V]

I loved the Claptraps, except for maybe the one at the start, as he moved too slowly for my tastes. Me and my co-op partner waited five minutes for the damn thing to do anything at one time. They were really funny, especially at the end. Ain't saying anything else.

 

[Jaebird]

When he mentioned the fact that Final Fantasy is pushing more for cutscenes, like every Metal Gear and their Solid, I couldn't help but think this: J-RPG: The Movie (Rated Japanese, for incoherency, angst, and androgyny; coming to a console that you can't afford).

 

[Hunter.Wolf]

All JRPG's should be called "stupid gay rubbish"

While i must admit i find most of Yahtzee remarks about JRPGs funny i do find this one comment an extremely close minded, generic and cheap remark even if meant as a joke ... in the same vein as saying all Americans are idiots, all Colombians are drug lords and all English people are stone cold ... typical clueless generalization .. duh.

First of all .. yes .. main stream JRPG have many pitfalls and generic aspects ... but so are mainstream WRPG .. they aren't perfect nor are they really that innovative .. they have their share of generic aspects and superfluousness (hinging way too much of the "freedom" to create your dream avatar and "freedom" of choices too much .. and too many dragons, dwarfs and elves XD).

All that aside .. both WRPGs and JRPG have many excellent examples of what makes each of the two formulas popular and unique (my fav WRPGs being Mass Effect and Deus Ex .. both are fresh and tried new things)... JRPG like Front Mission, Vagrant Story, Chrono Trigger/Cross, Star Ocean, Parasite Eve, Tales series, Valkyria Chronicles, Persona, Dragon Quest, Shadow Hearts, Lost Odyssey, Eternal Sonata, Demon's Souls, Xenosaga, Kingdom Hearts .. etc etc .. each and every one of them has something unique about it and usually offers extremely imaginative stories and characters that many WRPGs could dream to match .. and they make up with that for the usually limited customization options (although it is isn't always limited for example as seen in game like Vagrant Story which has on of the most complex weapon crafting systems i ever saw).

So just cause JRPG aren't your thing it doesn't mean they are "stupid gay rubbish", that's something a 5 years old would come up with to piss his friend who likes JRPGs.

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I've never understood the JRPG naming, but RPGs have always clearly been the likes of KotOR, Mass Effect, Oblivion, ect.

Because JRPGs aren't based on western nomenclature? You notice the 'J' in front of the RPG?

Strictly speaking in the west they would be more properly labeled as "adventure games' or somesuch, but really, the tendencies of combat, stats, loot, and worldspace all lend JRPGs to the RPG family. They are not based on pen & paper RPGs however, which is where most of the confusion comes in.


By "role playing game", while you don't create or shape the role, the player is meant to assume the role, insofar as the role, characters, and story are the end purpose of the game, rather than just a vehicle to deliver the gameplay.


That makes any sense?

Yes, you did indeed ^_^

But sadly only people who played both WRPGs and JRPGs long enough can understand that .. just cause you can't have direct control over your avatar in JRPGs it is suddenly not an RPG .... too many WRPG fans seem to be fixated around the idea that a game is not RPG unless it follow pen & paper formula (pick race, pick gender, pick stats ... etc etc) ... well .. that's not true ... many JRPG deliver a very entertaining RPG experience in which you assume a "ROLE" set to you by the writer instead of a "ROLE" you set for yourself ... it allows for a deeper and more coherent and engaging story when done right ... and it is without doubt a Role Playing Experience .. just different from Traditional WRPG.

Actually the WRPG itself has gotten quite stagnant itself .... and in many of the WRPG i played the choice provided are often superficial and really have very little impact ... not to mention that the story need to be more general and simplified to account for all the possibilities that come with giving players too much freedom .... so basically its a trade-off ... WRPG when done right offer an RPG experience in which you can create an avatar that reflects your own personality in a fictional world ... and JRPG when doen right give you a complex story with characters you can relate to (mostly why most JRPGs feature teenagers)

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Hmm, renaming the genres could be hard. The only one I can think of would be to replace RPGs and JRPGs.

Avatar Development Game (ADG or Avment Game) - Takes the place of Role-Playing Games. Describes how you develop your avatar by choosing your actions.

Tactical Cinematic Game (TCG or CineTac) - Takes the place of JRPGs. Describes a game in which main story progression comes from cinematics and combat is more tactical such as selecting and combining combat moves with other characters.

Meh, those ideas kinda suck, but it's worth a try.

Even if the naming is changed to what you suggested people will simply revert back to RPG (or WRPG) and JRPG in a short time because those characteristics you mention in your descriptions are unique to each type and rarely does a WRPG adapt something from JRPG or vice versa ... and actually it's better that way since we get two different and unique RPG formals .. we win regardless of what those two formulas are called (i personally enjoy playing both types of RPGs cause each of them offers lots of good things the other doesn't)

 

[CyberKnight]

As I have mentioned before in this column I avoid online multiplayer because my brain still works.

Just as a nitpick, there's a big difference in "online multiplayer with random prepubescent apespawn" and "online multiplayer with respectable human beings". The former would match with the malfunctioning brain theory, but the latter, not so much.

While Yahtzee generally reviews games from the single-player view, he has made comments about playing games with people before (Guitar Hero/Rock Band, a couple Wii games), which makes me think he's not totally averse to playing with other people.

I wonder what might be his opinion on something like ODST*, where random matchmaking is not even available and online multiplayer must be assembled from people you actively invite in (which, one would hope, fall into the "respectable human beings" category).

*Note that I said something like ODST -- that game itself might not be the best example, considering the "Halo" name seems to prejudice him (and a not-insignificant number of commenters around here, I've noticed) with automatic hate, and that particular game doesn't seem to resonate with people who don't already like "Halo" in general.

For that matter, I wonder what his reviews might be like if he included the multiplayer side of things in general, even if he limited those reviews to just sessions played in private matches.

 

[NamesAreHardToPick]

To give a definition to the way "role playing" gets thrown around in videogaming, anything with a stats page vaguely resembling a D&D character sheet will do. Just like all a "shooter" needs is shooting as your main form of interpersonal communication.

I think the dog companion is nice, they're a companion you feel bad about abandoning when you run from a horde of goblins without demanding that the developers commit to doing any AI or dialogue. Also it gives the illusion that the developers have played NetHack and thus have a non-zero chance of producing a decent RPG. lol good luck on that one though, apparently the Japanese are the only ones picking up on roguelikes for commercial titles.

Instead of dogs, my pet peeve is the required "morality" system in every western RPG now. You would think that Fable's sucked enough cock that everyone else wouldn't touch the idea with a ten foot pole, but no there they are. The best they can manage is comedy at the creator's expense. Peter Molyneux thinks that killing a farmer is as evil as stealing 2 loaves of bread while killing a wealthy merchant is as evil as stealing two loaves of bread and an apple... stealing enough bread and apples (or murder half that many times) turns you into SATAN. Who raised this guy?

 

[Falseprophet]

1- So I'm not the only one worried gaming nomenclature becoming too wide in it's definitions...

Do we really want to go in the opposite direction? How many music acts use three or more adjectives to describe their genre? Seems especially prominent in my favourite genres: metal and goth. Or maybe the more marginal you are, the more words you use to describe yourself.

Anyway, classifying genre is something we librarians have wrestled with since day one, and we end up having to do whatever the big book sellers and publishers do anyway, since they have a much, much larger marketing budget.

3- (slightly out of Topic) If "everyone" (I realize that is a generalization) keeps complaining about the three-legged post-trauma ahsmatic dog that is JRPGs, how do they still sell!? And most of all, how do Japanese developpers not notice their games are somewhat broken and need fixing(IE to be neutered)?

Anime/manga fans buy them. Like a few female coworkers of mine who loved Final Fantasy and Kingdom Hearts, and can occasionally be coaxed into a game of Rock Band, but otherwise couldn't care less about FPSes, action-adventurers, fighting games, etc. Scan the video game reviews section [http://www.animenewsnetwork.com/the-x-button] of the Anime News Network; over half the games reviewed are JRPGs or J-RTSes.

 

[BlueInkAlchemist]

Thank you for mentioning Bloodlines. Despite some graphical and gameplay issues, it's a highly underrated RPG.

 

[UnravThreads]

As I have mentioned before in this column I avoid online multiplayer because my brain still works.

Just as a nitpick, there's a big difference in "online multiplayer with random prepubescent apespawn" and "online multiplayer with respectable human beings". The former would match with the malfunctioning brain theory, but the latter, not so much.

While Yahtzee generally reviews games from the single-player view, he has made comments about playing games with people before (Guitar Hero/Rock Band, a couple Wii games), which makes me think he's not totally averse to playing with other people.

I wonder what might be his opinion on something like ODST*, where random matchmaking is not even available and online multiplayer must be assembled from people you actively invite in (which, one would hope, fall into the "respectable human beings" category).

*Note that I said something like ODST -- that game itself might not be the best example, considering the "Halo" name seems to prejudice him (and a not-insignificant number of commenters around here, I've noticed) with automatic hate, and that particular game doesn't seem to resonate with people who don't already like "Halo" in general.

For that matter, I wonder what his reviews might be like if he included the multiplayer side of things in general, even if he limited those reviews to just sessions played in private matches.

Maybe more accurate?

Oh, sorry. My L4D-online-playing has rendered me brainless and less inclined to strain hard enough to fart out a reasonable, logical response.

 

[RyVal]

Also funny to be called a "kid" for liking Borderlands when I'm older than him, but ah well I only follow his work for the humour (which is missing in this article), he's not exactly a Pullitzer contender.

Feel free to go onto TV Tropes' "Dethroning Moments of Suck" section and join in with all the other jilted fanboys whining that Yahtzee mocked their favourite game.

 

[DTWolfwood]

well First-person Shooter and Third-person Shooters are a bit self explanatory <.< games like Borderland, well that's a genre abomination and should be its own category altogether

 

[Arkhangelsk]

JRPGs, for example, could be easily reclassified as 'Stupid Gay Rubbish'.

I could not agree with you more. How does anybody actually stay awake for the entire game? I tried playing one of the Final Fantasy games at a friends house- don't even remember which one, but my only reaction after about twenty minutes was 'bored bored bored'.

I agree that the classic genres are far too general for this day and age, where most titles have elements from several different types of game.

thinks he's in a position to criticize the whole genre

Kudos for making one of the best comments ever.

 

[RyVal]

JRPGs, for example, could be easily reclassified as 'Stupid Gay Rubbish'.

I could not agree with you more. How does anybody actually stay awake for the entire game? I tried playing one of the Final Fantasy games at a friends house- don't even remember which one, but my only reaction after about twenty minutes was 'bored bored bored'.

I agree that the classic genres are far too general for this day and age, where most titles have elements from several different types of game.

thinks he's in a position to criticize the whole genre

Way to condemn his presumptions by making a presumption of what game he was actually playing.

 

[Kazedarkwind]

the problem i have with jrpgs lately, and im speaking as a "final fantasy 1-8 the rest should be shot into the sun" gamer is that they missed the point and kept on walking. all of them bring little to no innovation (all jrpgs not just FF), sure i might still find the game play fun but its not doing anything different, ill give a prime example,

i...cant...stand...bioware...games!!!!

now to qualify my statement, i love the stories in each game i like how they make them. but i never EVER get past 10 hours of any of there games. but because they change there games and try something new each time, they completely got me hooked onto Dragon Age, i was immersed the entire time...including finals week last semester >.<

i dont think JRPGs are rubbish but its just like anime to me, nothing changes and i would like to think ive grown up and out of the childish style of anime and would like to see more innovation and immersion that i don't get anymore. thus why i only play final fantasy MMOGs because despite what people say about MMORPGs and especially final fantasy MMOGs they are definitely the only ones that made me feel immersed. and still do to this day.

sorry for ranting :X