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Rumor: More Evidence Suggests Always-Online For Next Xbox
- Thread starter Steven Bogos
- Start date
It is true that a lot of palces will need replacement in cables. you know, something they should ahve done 20 years ago. the ISPs here give you free fiber optic cables and stable 300mbps internet for less money than you pay for your hardly working dialups. how are people allowing companies that so so blatantly ripping people off stay in business is unthinkable, but you do it.The_Echo said:
if you dont "Feel the need" well now you do. and you can afford it, you just need to tell your ISP to stop charging you 10 times more than the internet should cost considering the quality you get.
Not sure if your joking. You are aware that we, PC Master race, use this expression as a joke right? you do know that we dont think we are somehow superior? right?Shadow-Phoenix said:
2012 data show that 2,405,518,376 internet users are there, which is 34.3 % of the population. considernig that there are multiple people in one household and it needs only 1 internet connection, it is very likely over half the world population uses internet.My name is Fiction said:
Console sales this generation is:
Xbox: Worldwide: 76 million (as of February 11, 2013)
PS3: Worldwide: 70 million (as of November 4, 2012)
Wii: Worldwide: 99.38 million (as of December 31, 2012)
That is, 245,38 millions of players, thats even ignoring the people who bought another one because the old oen broke down and such.
So in other hand, there is 9,8 times internet users than consoles on the market. If we go by world population, consoles do not even cover 3,5% of world population.
by your logic it woudl be a financial suicide to sell anything for console instead of teh Internets.
crippling issues for 1 day...... oh no, you got to play your game 1 day later than promised, so instead of waiting 5 years you waited 5 years and 1 day, this must be the end of the world.Programmed_For_Damage said:
yeah because throwing money at them works so well too. if enough people demand it they will have no choice, go bancrupt or start working normally. of course when it comes to monopolies government should cut their wings, but its america we talk about, its the monopolies that are the government. by buying their service your not making it better. you sure there are no alternative? is things that bad?Zachary Amaranth said:
Kudos for keeping it cool, i can see how i can came off as agressive.Domogo said:You miss understand me sir, I am not saying that I cannot delete games I am saying that I will have to delete them. We live in an era of convenience I think that the idea of installing a game to the hared drive to reduce the loading times is brilliant however requiring it is a waste of time and essentially white washing everything.
Also lets consider this 1. If they actually have a 1TB hard drive (out side some 'elite' edition) I would be amazed 2. you aren't accounting for any DLC the DLC in map packs and updates for games like CodBlops take up as much if not more then the space of the game by its self, and there is another one every year at this point; and in an elder scrolls game the DLC is huge we are now to about 100 GB of Cod games and 50GB of elder scrolls by the end of this thing 3. No hard drive actually has the listed amount of space a 1 TB actually has 931 GB and that is without the massive Xbox dashboard or any apps or any movies that they will probably require you to install as well.
My estimates may be rough but I stand by them and I see this mainly as a great option they are now making an irritating requirement. Also if you think a Blu-Ray player is slow (which, if it any good, it isnt) wait till you are trying to play a game while it is downloading on a throttled speed from a server everyone else is attempting to download from all while thay are monitoring you with the same connection, then tell me blu-ray is slow.
Finally I didn't bold that section of my post for a reason
The thing is, your convenience has to be sacrificed for functionality. the games that are going to be runing on next gen consoles simply are too "big" to be read from disc. the disck reader simply is physically unable to read that fast from that many places. and unless they start selling games in mini HDDs or SDDs (which would be very expensive) there is simply no way around installing. you just cant read 20MB/s from a disc. and if you dont want to continue playing games with 5 year old grapics you have to. now mind you, personally i dont care about graphics, but you have to admit most gamers do.
Now the fact that they wont put in a HDD that is standard already is another issue. they done such in the past, heck, remember the whole "buy memory cards" deal we had last year? However the installation process was not required back then. now it is, and this gives precedence for need off large HDD. Now im no expert, but does DLCs really take THAT MUCH SPace in comaprison? DLCs are usually 10% of the games size or less. I think Skyrim and COD are exception and not the rule in this case. and even if so, thats still a lot of games you can fit in a HDD. APPs is often ignored, thats because they usually dont take any signiicant space. with current size of hard drives the application taking is small and disregarded. if you take 1 GB from 931GB your not really loosing all your space. Yes it actually has 931 GB, due to two different measure methods, not really relevant to the point, i used 1000 for simplicity in calculations.
Blue Ray player is not slow, after all it managed to run those 16 GB games. but when the game size grows, which it can on Blue Ray drive, it wont be fast enough. and trust me, we see size increase before optimization increase because thats how programing is lazy. its much easier to create something that takes more space than put same thing in less space.
And i dont buy that play as you download/install bullshit. games are not designed in a way to make this in any way possible. you would have to redesign while game programming process to make this possible. there is a reason you download and install patches with game turned off.
There's a way to do it. If the critical modules are updated first (as in the ones in normal use) it's possible to update the rest of module components via certain methods. The 2nd option is that they use a streaming service to run the game remotely while the local copy completes the update. The third option would be a merging of both previous methods.Strazdas said:yeah because throwing money at them works so well too. if enough people demand it they will have no choice, go bancrupt or start working normally. of course when it comes to monopolies government should cut their wings, but its america we talk about, its the monopolies that are the government. by buying their service your not making it better. you sure there are no alternative? is things that bad?Zachary Amaranth said:
Kudos for keeping it cool, i can see how i can came off as agressive.Domogo said:You miss understand me sir, I am not saying that I cannot delete games I am saying that I will have to delete them. We live in an era of convenience I think that the idea of installing a game to the hared drive to reduce the loading times is brilliant however requiring it is a waste of time and essentially white washing everything.
Also lets consider this 1. If they actually have a 1TB hard drive (out side some 'elite' edition) I would be amazed 2. you aren't accounting for any DLC the DLC in map packs and updates for games like CodBlops take up as much if not more then the space of the game by its self, and there is another one every year at this point; and in an elder scrolls game the DLC is huge we are now to about 100 GB of Cod games and 50GB of elder scrolls by the end of this thing 3. No hard drive actually has the listed amount of space a 1 TB actually has 931 GB and that is without the massive Xbox dashboard or any apps or any movies that they will probably require you to install as well.
My estimates may be rough but I stand by them and I see this mainly as a great option they are now making an irritating requirement. Also if you think a Blu-Ray player is slow (which, if it any good, it isnt) wait till you are trying to play a game while it is downloading on a throttled speed from a server everyone else is attempting to download from all while thay are monitoring you with the same connection, then tell me blu-ray is slow.
Finally I didn't bold that section of my post for a reason
The thing is, your convenience has to be sacrificed for functionality. the games that are going to be runing on next gen consoles simply are too "big" to be read from disc. the disck reader simply is physically unable to read that fast from that many places. and unless they start selling games in mini HDDs or SDDs (which would be very expensive) there is simply no way around installing. you just cant read 20MB/s from a disc. and if you dont want to continue playing games with 5 year old grapics you have to. now mind you, personally i dont care about graphics, but you have to admit most gamers do.
Now the fact that they wont put in a HDD that is standard already is another issue. they done such in the past, heck, remember the whole "buy memory cards" deal we had last year? However the installation process was not required back then. now it is, and this gives precedence for need off large HDD. Now im no expert, but does DLCs really take THAT MUCH SPace in comaprison? DLCs are usually 10% of the games size or less. I think Skyrim and COD are exception and not the rule in this case. and even if so, thats still a lot of games you can fit in a HDD. APPs is often ignored, thats because they usually dont take any signiicant space. with current size of hard drives the application taking is small and disregarded. if you take 1 GB from 931GB your not really loosing all your space. Yes it actually has 931 GB, due to two different measure methods, not really relevant to the point, i used 1000 for simplicity in calculations.
Blue Ray player is not slow, after all it managed to run those 16 GB games. but when the game size grows, which it can on Blue Ray drive, it wont be fast enough. and trust me, we see size increase before optimization increase because thats how programing is lazy. its much easier to create something that takes more space than put same thing in less space.
And i dont buy that play as you download/install bullshit. games are not designed in a way to make this in any way possible. you would have to redesign while game programming process to make this possible. there is a reason you download and install patches with game turned off.
But the "critical modules" are usually 80% of the package.Colt47 said:
the second option IS very possible, but would double-load the internet conenction as it needs to download and stream the game (well not so much if its from a disc).
Yeah, but it would still be playing the game while it is updating. The mistake right now is implying that "play while updating" means that we are playing it through 100% of the update. If we can't play for 80% of the download, but can play for the last 20%, that still qualifies the statement as being true.Strazdas said:
Captcha: SMELLING SALT
I think captcha is trying to tell me I need more caffeine this morning.
I don't understand this...if it's not plugged into the Net, what happens exactly?
And why would a company close the doors to millions of potential customers who have no or poor access to the Net?
If I was buying a console for a child between 6-16, I wouldn't connect it to the Net anyway.
And why would a company close the doors to millions of potential customers who have no or poor access to the Net?
If I was buying a console for a child between 6-16, I wouldn't connect it to the Net anyway.
Doing all three of those would be utter suicide in the console market. Motion controls are still fiddly, there are people who despise DRM, and I don't want to have to delete a game just so I can play a new one at all. Microsoft can be a lot of kinds of stupid, but that would just be staggering.
Seriously, I'd just buy a PC. It's upgradeable as I get the money, has most of the games I want, and there's a modding scene for a lot of games.
Seriously, I'd just buy a PC. It's upgradeable as I get the money, has most of the games I want, and there's a modding scene for a lot of games.
Its just people taking things out of context or leaping away from the DRM shadows. Its just silly. Like most of the Escapist these days.Programmed_For_Damage said:
That is a little too much 1984 for my liking. Plus I never used a Kinect nor do I want to, if wanted more of that nonsense I wouldn't have given my Nintendo Wii away.Sol_HSA said:
I'm no a fan of this always online business or DRM even though I always pay for games it's an inconvenience. Console games have never had that large a piracy issue so you know this is simply to prevent used game sales in the long run and it will start with making discs optional and then irrelevant.
If it comes down to Microsoft doing always online and Sony not there will be clear winner for my next gen assuming I don't do what increasingly seems to be the smart thing and upgrade my PC to be decent gaming one instead.
I think the only thing you aren't under standing is that I might not ever reach the max (though I can see it happening dependent, as I said, on things like apps and movies and the other things that consoles are attempting to gobble up), however if I do I will be forced to go out of my way to uninstall a game. My point is that they have taken a great optional service and now forced a required service on us.Strazdas said:
Also, I just realized, by removing the optical drive play you are removing the main feature for backwards compatibility, even if the drive is not fast enough to play brand new AAA games it will still be able to play older games which either means I have to install all of my older games (which is still better then sonys not backwards compat) and fill the space with that, or it will be just like the PS4 and have no backwards compat (with no good reason I might add).
Here's the thing.
I don't really try to buy into the hype any more than anyone else. you get burned more that way.
But all these are damning things in this gaming industry now. Most people consider movement gaming to be a fad that needs to die away already, DRM and always online, limited install space... It's all completely sucidial.
Now if you were the head of the company. In the wake of Aliens Colonial Marines, Street Fighter X Tekken on disc DLC, Origin's overcharging and banning, ME3 and that fall out, Diablo 3, Sim City; to put it shortly, just the mess the last 15 months have been for gaming as a whole... and with gamers being as Irate and ready to pounce on anything... wouldn't you take any chance to swat down these rumors?
I mean wouldn't you want to be the company that says it understands? To get the consumer base that's acting like a neglected and abused dog, lashing out at anyone who looks like they are going to do the same? If this weren't the case, why wouldn't you give a resounding 'NO!' the second these rumors come up?
Yeah, sure, you don't respond to every rumor there is. But you definitely respond to the rumor that your new console will literally be everything the modern gamer hates with a passion if it's not the case.
I don't really try to buy into the hype any more than anyone else. you get burned more that way.
But all these are damning things in this gaming industry now. Most people consider movement gaming to be a fad that needs to die away already, DRM and always online, limited install space... It's all completely sucidial.
Now if you were the head of the company. In the wake of Aliens Colonial Marines, Street Fighter X Tekken on disc DLC, Origin's overcharging and banning, ME3 and that fall out, Diablo 3, Sim City; to put it shortly, just the mess the last 15 months have been for gaming as a whole... and with gamers being as Irate and ready to pounce on anything... wouldn't you take any chance to swat down these rumors?
I mean wouldn't you want to be the company that says it understands? To get the consumer base that's acting like a neglected and abused dog, lashing out at anyone who looks like they are going to do the same? If this weren't the case, why wouldn't you give a resounding 'NO!' the second these rumors come up?
Yeah, sure, you don't respond to every rumor there is. But you definitely respond to the rumor that your new console will literally be everything the modern gamer hates with a passion if it's not the case.
With this 'Always On, Always Connected' design, users will quickly and easily suffer each and every server hiccup as a palpable insult to their investment, with constant waiting for the console to finish updating."
This is how I read it, anybody else?
This is how I read it, anybody else?
Yes, but that's because they remain freaking titans. EA's riding high on the hog right now. A humbling would do better than to utterly crash them.Snotnarok said:
Throwing money at oil companies doesn't work, either. For many people, however, living oil-free is not an option.Strazdas said:
Yes, but that doesn't make it any less a fantasy. We need practical steps. A lot of working people can't afford to cut themselves off like that, and you're asking a group of self-entitled gamers to do it?
Do you not understand how a monopoly works? That would seem to answer those two questions, and sort of nullify that specious statement.
Now...Here's the truth.
America doesn't technically have a monopoly. They do, however, have what is called a duopoly. Two companies, TWC and Comcast own more than two thirds of the market. The top four own something like 90%. The two largest are noncompetitive, and actually amicably split Adelphia in order to acquire it in a mutually beneficial sense. The rest? Barely compete. Because there's no incentive to. They all effectively run their own markets, and there is little to no competition in most markets. In fact,a lot of people are deceived into going with supposedly smaller companies which are subsidiaries of the big ones.
In short, things really "is" that bad.