Rumor: Next Xbox Could Run Windows

[Richard Allen]

It was really only a matter of time before this happened. Honestly, as ideas go, it's not that bad, and if the system architecture is shared, it makes it much easier on game developers when they decide to develop for that kind of platform.

PC gamers, we shouldn't be freaking out. This means we won't get crappy, half-assed ports. In fact, the same team can focus on one version of the game, and either the development costs can be reduced (and there might be room for some innovation again), or the final product could come out much more polished without the dev team having to split attention.

The way I imagine it, the next-generation Xbox will just be an inexpensive, pre-built gaming PC. Those of us who stick with our actual PCs will still be able to do what makes us happy, upgrade and tweak and overclock and customize and modify to our heart's content. It's also likely that the next gen Xbox and the version of Windows after 8 that receives this functionality will be able to play cross-platform, although cross-platform is a misnomer for what's happening, since it's really not a different platform anymore. It's also possible that this could mean game mods would be available on the Xbox, which could only be a good thing.

I'm very cautiously optimistic. Microsoft has the deep pockets necessary to do something like this and do it right. If they pull it off, it'll completely revolutionize the industry.

Yeah because merging the PC and console is not going to affect modding? Keep dreaming. This isn't the console becoming more like a PC as much as it is the PC becoming more like the console.

Edit: replied to wrong post.

 

[Richard Allen]

Well there is a major issue here: Licensing

The PC model is completely dependant on free licensing, anyone can sell any software to run on a Windows operating system without having to pay a penny to Microsoft.

Yet on consoles, including Xbox, it is entirely dependant on charging a licence fee for every single game released for the system, about $10-12 per game. That is the ONLY way that consoles are marketable, by selling at a loss and making it back in the hundreds of millions of game sales per system.

So if there is a single OS for both PC and Console... how does software work?

Will BOTH systems charge, which utterly fucks PC over as now every Steam Sale will cost about $15 more.

Or will neither charge, which is bad for consoles as that market loves the low entry price of hardware that is subsidised by game licensing fees.

Console and PC operating systems in many ways do NEED to be different, as they are doing very different things. I can't see this being a particularly good idea.

If they go with "charge licence fee for software on new OS" will uttelry kill the new OS. I mean it was hard enough to get people to move from XP to Vista, even from XP to Windows 7. Now try convincing people to make the jump with the knowledge they can't use any of their old programs and the new programs will cost about 30% more.

No Sale.

At the very least PC games with the GFWL logo will be treated like 360 games and charge license fees.

What will most likely happen is that if you want to make a multi ms platform game you will have to pay the licence fee for the sdk (as it is now). If you want a pc game only then you would be free to use w/e development platform of your choice.

Good way to push people to Linux.

I'm not so sure, how is this pushing people to linux. They would be extending functionality of the 360 sdk allowing them to target win 8, 360, and winphone 7 all with one consolidated code base? Where else can you get that type of market penetration? Publishers would salivate over this.

Do you even give thought to the consumer?

You care about the publishers and Microsoft market penetration but what about the consumers? Licensing fees for PC games is bad for consumers but hey, consumers don't matter right?

PC games already are closing in on the price of console games and AAA's have already gotten there. The sdk will not change that either way. It lowers development costs and makes games available to you on 3 systems or more. I'd have an "xbox" in every room of my house, how is that not value added? Like I said before cost of pc games is already rising, sdk won't change that.

 

[ryo02]

if I wanted a gaming pc Id buy one but Im a console gamer at heart this is just going to mean DRM and hackers (more than we have allready).

games will have even more issues with them out of the box and need patches (more than we have allready).

I want to go back to offline dedicated game consoles

 

[goldfalsebond]

uhhhhh, so what? i really dont see why you would want to do that.

 

[Epona]

Well there is a major issue here: Licensing

The PC model is completely dependant on free licensing, anyone can sell any software to run on a Windows operating system without having to pay a penny to Microsoft.

Yet on consoles, including Xbox, it is entirely dependant on charging a licence fee for every single game released for the system, about $10-12 per game. That is the ONLY way that consoles are marketable, by selling at a loss and making it back in the hundreds of millions of game sales per system.

So if there is a single OS for both PC and Console... how does software work?

Will BOTH systems charge, which utterly fucks PC over as now every Steam Sale will cost about $15 more.

Or will neither charge, which is bad for consoles as that market loves the low entry price of hardware that is subsidised by game licensing fees.

Console and PC operating systems in many ways do NEED to be different, as they are doing very different things. I can't see this being a particularly good idea.

If they go with "charge licence fee for software on new OS" will uttelry kill the new OS. I mean it was hard enough to get people to move from XP to Vista, even from XP to Windows 7. Now try convincing people to make the jump with the knowledge they can't use any of their old programs and the new programs will cost about 30% more.

No Sale.

At the very least PC games with the GFWL logo will be treated like 360 games and charge license fees.

What will most likely happen is that if you want to make a multi ms platform game you will have to pay the licence fee for the sdk (as it is now). If you want a pc game only then you would be free to use w/e development platform of your choice.

Good way to push people to Linux.

I'm not so sure, how is this pushing people to linux. They would be extending functionality of the 360 sdk allowing them to target win 8, 360, and winphone 7 all with one consolidated code base? Where else can you get that type of market penetration? Publishers would salivate over this.

Do you even give thought to the consumer?

You care about the publishers and Microsoft market penetration but what about the consumers? Licensing fees for PC games is bad for consumers but hey, consumers don't matter right?

PC games already are closing in on the price of console games and AAA's have already gotten there. The sdk will not change that either way. It lowers development costs and makes games available to you on 3 systems or more. I'd have an "xbox" in every room of my house, how is that not value added? Like I said before cost of pc games is already rising, sdk won't change that.

Yes PC games are already as much as console games and for no good reason as the licensing fees don't apply to PC games. When the licensing fees do apply then the $60 price tag will not only be stuck but probably raised even more as publishers whine about license fees.

You say it lowers development costs but how does that benefit the consumer? It doesn't.

When are gamers gonna to start caring more about consumers than about the bottom line of game companies?

Oh and BTW, having two XBOX's in your house is a source of frustration right now if you buy DLC. The same is true of the Wii.

 

[Xanthious]

The more I think about this the more it reminds me of being when I was 12 (oh so many moons ago) or so in my neighborhood there was a group of like aged kids and the handful of us would go do things 12 year olds do. That was until the day came when my buddy's ma decided that he needed to start letting his much younger brother hang around with him. This was no fun for either side. We had outgrown all the things he enjoyed and he simply wasn't able to do most of the things we enjoyed.

Trying to force console and PC gamers together is the same thing. PC gamers as a whole want fuck all to do with console gamers and vice versa. PC gamers are largely turned off by the "streamlined" (read: dumbed down, simplistic, mindless, etc) nature of console games. While console gamers are largely bored to tears by PC gaming as something awesome doesn't happen every time you press a button. Trying to make us one big happy group will only end up failing miserably.

 

[Zipa]

The more I think about this the more it reminds me of being when I was 12 (oh so many moons ago) or so in my neighborhood there was a group of like aged kids and the handful of us would go do things 12 year olds do. That was until the day came when my buddy's ma decided that he needed to start letting his much younger brother hang around with him. This was no fun for either side. We had outgrown all the things he enjoyed and he simply wasn't able to do most of the things we enjoyed.

Trying to force console and PC gamers together is the same thing. PC gamers as a whole want fuck all to do with console gamers and vice versa. PC gamers are largely turned off by the "streamlined" (read: dumbed down, simplistic, mindless, etc) nature of console games. While console gamers are largely bored to tears by PC gaming as something awesome doesn't happen every time you press a button. Trying to make us one big happy group will only end up failing miserably.

This pretty much, if Windows has some crappy knockoff console UI most people are just going to stick with XP or 7. (most gamers should be using 7 for obvious reasons by this point)

Plus if MS try to force XBL onto people then all hell will break loose, I for one refuse to pay the greedy bastards what I get for free via my PC and Steam.

 

[Richard Allen]

Well there is a major issue here: Licensing

The PC model is completely dependant on free licensing, anyone can sell any software to run on a Windows operating system without having to pay a penny to Microsoft.

Yet on consoles, including Xbox, it is entirely dependant on charging a licence fee for every single game released for the system, about $10-12 per game. That is the ONLY way that consoles are marketable, by selling at a loss and making it back in the hundreds of millions of game sales per system.

So if there is a single OS for both PC and Console... how does software work?

Will BOTH systems charge, which utterly fucks PC over as now every Steam Sale will cost about $15 more.

Or will neither charge, which is bad for consoles as that market loves the low entry price of hardware that is subsidised by game licensing fees.

Console and PC operating systems in many ways do NEED to be different, as they are doing very different things. I can't see this being a particularly good idea.

If they go with "charge licence fee for software on new OS" will uttelry kill the new OS. I mean it was hard enough to get people to move from XP to Vista, even from XP to Windows 7. Now try convincing people to make the jump with the knowledge they can't use any of their old programs and the new programs will cost about 30% more.

No Sale.

At the very least PC games with the GFWL logo will be treated like 360 games and charge license fees.

What will most likely happen is that if you want to make a multi ms platform game you will have to pay the licence fee for the sdk (as it is now). If you want a pc game only then you would be free to use w/e development platform of your choice.

Good way to push people to Linux.

I'm not so sure, how is this pushing people to linux. They would be extending functionality of the 360 sdk allowing them to target win 8, 360, and winphone 7 all with one consolidated code base? Where else can you get that type of market penetration? Publishers would salivate over this.

Do you even give thought to the consumer?

You care about the publishers and Microsoft market penetration but what about the consumers? Licensing fees for PC games is bad for consumers but hey, consumers don't matter right?

PC games already are closing in on the price of console games and AAA's have already gotten there. The sdk will not change that either way. It lowers development costs and makes games available to you on 3 systems or more. I'd have an "xbox" in every room of my house, how is that not value added? Like I said before cost of pc games is already rising, sdk won't change that.

Yes PC games are already as much as console games and for no good reason as the licensing fees don't apply to PC games. When the licensing fees do apply then the $60 price tag will not only be stuck but probably raised even more as publishers whine about license fees.

You say it lowers development costs but how does that benefit the consumer? It doesn't.

When are gamers gonna to start caring more about consumers than about the bottom line of game companies?

Oh and BTW, having two XBOX's in your house is a source of frustration right now if you buy DLC. The same is true of the Wii.

So you think by adding the the pc into the sdk that is going to make pc costs rise to more then console counterparts? I doubt it, but you never know, it would certainly get pc gamers into an uproar. And trust me, go look at my posts screaming about project $10 bs. I care more about my value then most on here, and I scream about it every day I see another article about ps3 killing my features, and other dlc bs mentioned before. I simply do not see this as an issue when the cost of pc games is already on par, and IMO pc games will never be more expensive then console games.

Like I said earlier there is nothing preventing anyone from making a standard pc game w/o the sdk and avoid licence fees. It seems that if you can't agree on that then we're not going to get anywhere with this. I'm a value looking gamer, more then most and I just see this as a great thing.

Multiple dlc is going to get fixed in a little while anyway. In the mean time just save dlc to a usb stick, makes life much easier until 360 cloud comes up.

 

[Red Albatross]

It was really only a matter of time before this happened. Honestly, as ideas go, it's not that bad, and if the system architecture is shared, it makes it much easier on game developers when they decide to develop for that kind of platform.

PC gamers, we shouldn't be freaking out. This means we won't get crappy, half-assed ports. In fact, the same team can focus on one version of the game, and either the development costs can be reduced (and there might be room for some innovation again), or the final product could come out much more polished without the dev team having to split attention.

The way I imagine it, the next-generation Xbox will just be an inexpensive, pre-built gaming PC. Those of us who stick with our actual PCs will still be able to do what makes us happy, upgrade and tweak and overclock and customize and modify to our heart's content. It's also likely that the next gen Xbox and the version of Windows after 8 that receives this functionality will be able to play cross-platform, although cross-platform is a misnomer for what's happening, since it's really not a different platform anymore. It's also possible that this could mean game mods would be available on the Xbox, which could only be a good thing.

I'm very cautiously optimistic. Microsoft has the deep pockets necessary to do something like this and do it right. If they pull it off, it'll completely revolutionize the industry.

Yeah because merging the PC and console is not going to affect modding? Keep dreaming. This isn't the console becoming more like a PC as much as it is the PC becoming more like the console.

And what's the difference between the two now? The 360 is just a very underpowered gaming PC with a closed-up OS and its own host servers that precludes the possibility of modding because of the games mostly running from the discs and Microsoft not willing to foot the bill for hosting files.

Memory is cheaper, the size of games is mostly stabilizing, and the ability to modify things, whether it be the OS itself or a game, is not something that can be taken away from an OS that's aimed as a successor to Windows. Microsoft may occasionally make some boneheaded decisions, but they're not THAT stupid.

Sure, it may be like you say, and will spell the end for PCs or whatever, but I prefer to fall on the optimistic side of the fence because I'd rather not worry about it. If it turns out that way, then Microsoft won't ever see another penny from me, simple as that.

 

[Richard Allen]

And of course the only thing that will come of this is that the PC interface will be dumbed down to shit because of consoles, phones, and tablets. Games with console menus are already bad enough. Does the PC really need big retard buttons used for touch screens and phones? I don't see anything good coming of this move. Windows 8 is already moving in this direction and it to me looks like the next Vista already.

Blame the developers on that one, MS already provided the tools (along with other development platform) to provide a single code base with tweaks to different platforms. I agree partially though, most developers will do one interface and it will suck until they learn to target the platform. Fact is though playing cod on the computer is the same as cod on the console and it works just fine.

 

[Richard Allen]

If this means I'll be able to run all of my Steam games on my XBOX without any restrictive DRM bullshit from Microsoft, I'll be one extremely happy camper. That + backwards compatibility and carryover of XBLA games from your original 360 account are what could make or break this system. For some reason, I don't see it happening.

I didn't even think of steam xovers....ohh now you got my hopes up you bastard.

 

[Delusibeta]

I'd be inclined to say that this rumour is far more likely than the "Xbox games running on Windows" rumour.

 

[Maxtro]

Frankly I don't see why this hasn't been done already.

For all intents and purposes, the 360 and PS3 are computers. Heck the PS3 was even able to run Linux in the past.

Just put on Windows, let me be able to have video out via HDMI and VGA and a standard audio out cable to plug into my PC speakers.

There should be a quick restart where it switches between PC and Xbox mode.

Desktop and game console in one, yes please.

 

[JET1971]

Seriously

I own consoles to play games, I like that they are adjusted for console use. I like the feel of a controller..putting windows on a game console really. Does nothing good not to mention game consoles need to be priced well, meaning the price to make them has to be kept low. Hence by both the Xbox 360 and the PS3 have about 512Mbyte memory. More would be possible yes but such would cost more and hence this was a sacrifice.

A console with maybe 2Gbyte of relative cheap memory might be possible. But then you get Windows 8 or so.. yeah I don't see it. Sorry but windows is a resource hog that also is a black box. You know it does something but who knows what does what. How more windows ages how more services and background crap. Out of the box even. Sure I know that Microsoft has tried to fix their "mono core" design reality is that you can't change the basics.

My prediction windows on a console... doesn't runs well! Hell linux on the PS3 even doesn't runs that well due to the limited about of memory.

If you think RAM is a cost issue then you really dont have a clue.

http://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.aspx?Item=N82E16820104166
http://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.aspx?Item=N82E16820148346
http://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.aspx?Item=N82E16820178265
http://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.aspx?Item=N82E16820233132

want more in the under $25-50 range?
http://www.newegg.com/Product/ProductList.aspx?Submit=ENE&N=100007611%204025&IsNodeId=1&name=%2425%20-%20%2450

Thats in retail prices, easily twice as much as what they would pay for in a bulk contract directly with the manufacturer. $12.5 to $25 and they would be about what it would cost them for 4GB per XBox today. the biggest cost in the console is the CPU and GPU not memory.

OT:

Why dont they just sell the Xbox as a program for PC like steam is but much more built into the OS and let people use a laptop or desktop of choice? it would be the same selling model as the windows OS as in you pick your own hardware. hardware incompatibility wouldnt be an issue with the games themselves because the program that runs them could be easily set for exhisting hardware and when new hardware comes out they wont need to do anything because its all backwards compatible as is until major advancements come into play.

Manufacturers of laptops could add in the Xbox program and controler/TV hookup kit and you could have an ultra portable Xbox play your games while traveling and hook it up to the TV when you get there.

 

[Rad Party God]

Yay!, instead of red rings of death, now we're getting blue screen of death!, awesomesauce!

 

[Epona]

It was really only a matter of time before this happened. Honestly, as ideas go, it's not that bad, and if the system architecture is shared, it makes it much easier on game developers when they decide to develop for that kind of platform.

PC gamers, we shouldn't be freaking out. This means we won't get crappy, half-assed ports. In fact, the same team can focus on one version of the game, and either the development costs can be reduced (and there might be room for some innovation again), or the final product could come out much more polished without the dev team having to split attention.

The way I imagine it, the next-generation Xbox will just be an inexpensive, pre-built gaming PC. Those of us who stick with our actual PCs will still be able to do what makes us happy, upgrade and tweak and overclock and customize and modify to our heart's content. It's also likely that the next gen Xbox and the version of Windows after 8 that receives this functionality will be able to play cross-platform, although cross-platform is a misnomer for what's happening, since it's really not a different platform anymore. It's also possible that this could mean game mods would be available on the Xbox, which could only be a good thing.

I'm very cautiously optimistic. Microsoft has the deep pockets necessary to do something like this and do it right. If they pull it off, it'll completely revolutionize the industry.

Yeah because merging the PC and console is not going to affect modding? Keep dreaming. This isn't the console becoming more like a PC as much as it is the PC becoming more like the console.

And what's the difference between the two now? The 360 is just a very underpowered gaming PC with a closed-up OS and its own host servers that precludes the possibility of modding because of the games mostly running from the discs and Microsoft not willing to foot the bill for hosting files.

Memory is cheaper, the size of games is mostly stabilizing, and the ability to modify things, whether it be the OS itself or a game, is not something that can be taken away from an OS that's aimed as a successor to Windows. Microsoft may occasionally make some boneheaded decisions, but they're not THAT stupid.

Sure, it may be like you say, and will spell the end for PCs or whatever, but I prefer to fall on the optimistic side of the fence because I'd rather not worry about it. If it turns out that way, then Microsoft won't ever see another penny from me, simple as that.

So you go from:

Those of us who stick with our actual PCs will still be able to do what makes us happy, upgrade and tweak and overclock and customize and modify to our heart's content.

to:

Sure, it may be like you say, and will spell the end for PCs or whatever, but I prefer to fall on the optimistic side of the fence because I'd rather not worry about it. If it turns out that way, then Microsoft won't ever see another penny from me, simple as that.

Ya know if there's one thing I've learned in my 30 years of gaming, it's that once a game company crosses a line, they never go back. If Microsoft manages to license PC games (a wet dream of theirs) then they will never let it go. Just like when we lost the used PC games market, we'll never get it back. I suggest you rail against it now instead of waiting till the damage is done.

 

[SNIPERFOX ft. Harry P.Ness]

OK, Next Xbox runs Windows, and Windows 8 will run Xbox games?

Remind me again of the difference between a PC and a console.

a console is made in china. always.
oh, also it has some gimmicks that no-one gives a shit about.

 

[ImprovizoR]

So the future of consoles is for them to become PC's? I don't get it. We already have PC's. Why not simply cut the story short and stop making those infernal things?

Actually I do get it. It's about money!

 

[RhombusHatesYou]

Thing is, they're talking about identical functionality not interoperability.

Which is to say they'll all look the same, work the same and have all the same built in software but that doesn't mean one type of device running a Win8 OS will be able to use the 3rd party progs designed for a different type of Win8 device.