Sanity Meters

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Covarr

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May 29, 2009
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I don't even know why people liked Eternal Darkness. It had bad combat, bad controls, bad cameras, and a boring story.

The game that pulls off sanity the best, in my opinion, does it by incorporating it into the story rather than a game-long meter. This game is Batman: Arkham Asylum. What makes it work is, the Scarecrow sequences serve to enhance and add to the game, rather than trying to be the central focus. It gives a good break from the style of gameplay the game's already established, and it doesn't last so long that you get sick of it. Additionally, it doesn't resort to anything obvious or meta.

DO NOT CONTINUE READING THIS POST IF YOU DON'T WANT MILD SPOILERS FOR BATMAN: ARKHAM ASYLUM.

For example, in Eternal Darkness, you start seeing volume controls, which would be fine and dandy if you're too stupid to realize "That's not what my volume looks like", Batman avoids this by all being game specific. It's also less immediately obvious, when you turn around and go through a door you just went in, and realize it didn't take you back to the previous room. At first you think you just got turned around, and it takes a couple of passes to realize you're not going anywhere and something is completely wrong.

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Johnlives

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Dec 6, 2009
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The Fahrenheit meter was a bit broken by the fact that after all the dreadful things that happen, you can have Lucas end it all by trying to use a broken vending machine.
 

Callate

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I kind've like sanity meters. It's more interesting to have to worry about the character's actual morale rather than just taking a bullet to the head. True, such a meter should never be used in the place of actual scares, but it also isn't entirely inappropriate that the in-game person whose actual flesh and bone is on the line feels something entirely different from the person behind the controller who's greatest risk is the possibility of having to hit the "quick load" button.

I do think they should try to do more interesting things with such meters, as in Eternal Darkness- there's room for a lot more than just blurry effects and wonky controls in the face of diminishing sanity. Auditory and visual hallucinations can make for interesting effects; perhaps even having the player go through an entirely different version of the level they're in if they're losing their marbles, or face the possibility (hinted of in games like Silent Hill) that the things they're seeing as "monsters" may not really be what they appear at all.

In some ways I think Indigo Prophecy/Farenheit just about did it right- the character's morale was an ongoing concern, but not generally something the player had to spend every spare moment thinking about. I rather prefer that to the morality system in Mass Effect 2, where the Paragon/Renegade choices increasingly become another "stat" one has to monitor in order to have the best options available, rather than a boon to role-playing the character as one envisions him or her.
 

Traigus

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Sep 7, 2010
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For decent Lovecraftian reading in the modern era, I recommend "The Laundry" series by Charles Stross. Though they are also pretty funny as well.

Basically it is about how the UK cicil service (and to some extent the CIA etc.) would handle Lovecraftian horrors... by counting paper clips and worrying about if getting your brain sucked out would violate OSHA standards.

(clipped from the Stross Wiki page)

The "Bob Howard ? Laundry" series

* The Atrocity Archives (2004, ISBN 1-930846-25-8; also contains the extra story The Concrete Jungle)
* The Jennifer Morgue (2006, ISBN 1-930846-44-4; also contains the extra story Pimpf)
* Down on the Farm (2008) available online
* Overtime (2009) available online
* The Fuller Memorandum (2010, ISBN 1-84149-770-3)

Down on the Farm and Overtime are short stories (initially available through other means) you can get for free on the Amazon Kindle store or from the publisher's website if I rememebr right. (There is a free Kindle reader for PC and Mac). Others are available in a variety of formats including Kindle.

------------

I have to say I enjoyed most of the games when they came out (some of them are a bit dated now) I'm not so sure if it is the Lovecraft itself, or just the games that came from that mindset. At the times I played them the mechanics didn't bother me so much, especially Eternal Darkness... where i admit to trying to be crazy and not crazy to see how the rooms progressively changed.

I've never been a giant fan of Lovecraft as a writer. He took up a lot of words trying to describe how indescribably awful things were.

I have to say the Lovecraftian movies are usually way worse than the games... way way worse
 

About To Crash

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Apr 24, 2009
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I think a good point to take from this is how the effects of a depleted sanity meter show themselves. For instance, the blurry screen/heavy panting is not nearly so effective as the effects that cross through the game world and really screw with what we think is going on, like in Eternal Darkness, or Arkham Asylum (the Batman one). It's like dream sequences in games that try to convince you they aren't dream sequences, and fail miserably, if only because the sky now has eyes. Trying to fuck with a player's head in-game is less effective, in my experience, than letting that fucking cross over into the world where the player believes they are safe and alone.
 

Ryokai

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Apr 4, 2010
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Wait a minute--Most of us have accepted that we're accidents in a godless existance? Doesn't the majority of the world believe in one religion or another?

Yahtzee, I love ya, man, but come on. Not all of us believe like you do, and guess what? THAT'S OKAY. We're all entitled to our opinions, and my reason and logic leads me to a different place then yours does, and that's fine

Not that I don't appreciate the atheist jokes--"The most famous fictional character since Jesus" Hehe.
 

Desworks

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Nov 18, 2009
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snowman6251 said:
I like the Eternal Darkness approach the most of the bunch but I think sanity meters should be invisible. Don't tell us how sane we are, that way when crazy shit happens I'll be like "Holy shit what the fuck" rather than "oh my sanity is low".
I agree with the meters needing to be invisible. In fact, if you really wanted to pull off a sanity meter, not ever mentioning that you've implemented one at all would be nice. If the effect of going insane was subtle enough (think glimpses of monsters at the edge of vision, causing you to expect attacks when there's nothing there rather than the current trend of playing a prank of sorts on the player), and nobody realized there was a sanity meter, you could probably glean something interesting out of it. At the very least, you'd make sure that peoples playthroughs were somewhat customized to their playstyle due to the effects being influenced by it. As it is these days, the sanity meter tends to just be another health bar for us to keep an eye on.
 

jamescorck

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Jan 25, 2010
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Yeah, the Eternal Darkness sanity metter does that. I tend to do it myself, but some characters have so little sanity sometimes is really difficult to control it, despite the magic spells and the enchanted crosses.
 

RJ Dalton

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Aug 13, 2009
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While I agree with the thought that the sanity meter doesn't work to well in games, I think you really missed the point of some of Lovecraft's works. Particularly, Shadow out of Time, which has always been one of my favorites (second only to Colour out of Space). You weren't supposed to be horrified by the Great Race, just unsettled. The unsettling factor to them is that they are a highly advanced race, but are totally alien. Even today, there are very few people who get what Lovecraft was playing at with his alien races; we tend to think that any advanced civilization will share our moral standing, or we attach our notions of good and evil to them. The fact that the Great Race is so far ahead of us technologically, yet appear to have no qualms with completely disrupting - and destroying - the lives of individuals simply for the pursuit of knowledge is a break from that notion. The fact that they were so courteous makes it truly unsettling; it's not that they're evil, they're just incredibly alien.
Now, the polypous creatures that hunted the Great Race and eventually drove them to flee their host species, they were meant to be scary. And they were, particularly in the chase scene at the very end.
 

JPH330

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Jan 31, 2010
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Sir John the Net Knight said:
Yahtzee took a shot at "Alice"... Oh good lord, is nothing sacred to this guy?

[small](Short answer: No...)[/small]
Long answer: Nooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooo.
 

Vinticore

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Nov 19, 2009
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I have been thinking about maybe reading through some lovecraft someday, is the any book in perticular which would be the best to start with, or?
 

jabrwock

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Sep 5, 2007
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It was like one of those Choose Your Own Adventure books where it proudly claims "21 DIFFERENT ENDINGS!" but 20 of them are just you getting killed three entries in.
Or worse, one of those ones that had you start with a certain number of "sanity" points, and certain actions made you lose them. So 2 ****ing pages from the end you were stuck in an "unwinnable" state. At least with CYOA books you could just say "**** it" and turn the page anyway...

The health bar in Alice was a sanity meter? Okaaaaaay. I must have glossed over that.

Brrrrrr, I was just replaying Max Payne, and no need for a sanity meter. The drug-nightmare sequences gave me the willies.
 

ElArabDeMagnifico

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Dec 20, 2007
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I have a love hate relationship with the sanity "meter". The thing I liked the most about Amnesia including one is that the protagonist was there. It wasn't like gordon freeman where it was just a camera floating around, "Daniel" was actually there in the game world, he reacted to everything that happened.

Though in Amnesia I only went "insane" once, usually when I got to the bottom my sanity got restored pretty quickly, but when I did go insane all sorts of strange things happened. First the room got distorted, then bugs started crawling on my face, then the paintings started changing, and finally I walked towards a door and as I was about to open it, it slammed open and I turned around and sprinted off and found the safest most well lit area and just hid, until daniel had a seizure or something and then realized that it was a hallucination. I went back to that same door and it was closed when I checked, so it does seem like the game fucks with you when you go insane, you just have to be in that state long enough I suppose.
 

Nieroshai

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Aug 20, 2009
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Eternal Darkness: Sanity's Requiem and Call of Cthulhu: Dark Corners of the Earth were both good games, and they're the most Lovecraftian out there. I also find the Silent Hill series very Lovecraftian in a way, because they tweak with the player's sanity and ancient elder gods using humans as playthings and driving them mad. Also the theme that Silent Hill reflects the inner demons of the witness, something I'm sure Lovecraft either has used or would have wanted to use.
 

JaymesFogarty

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Aug 19, 2009
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GrinningManiac said:
JaymesFogarty said:
GrinningManiac said:
I didn't know about Eternal Darkness. That's a pretty neat idea, if only as cheesy as Mr."YOU SEEM TO LIKE MARIO SUNSHINE" in Metal Gear over there
Oi, it's called, "Metal Gear Solid." And that was a stroke of genius mind you!
Oi, it's called "Metal Gear Solid Snake." And that was a stroke of MADNESS mind you!
No, there has never been a canon MG game with," Snake in the title," apart from Snake Eater, (MGS3), and MG:2. Unless you're referring to the remake for the Gamecube, entitled, "The Twin Snakes."
And how was it not brilliant? A fourth wall breaking reference that is actually relevant to you. Not to mention the vibration feature of the controller. (And the later addition in MGS3, that if you waited long enough between a save, you could kill a boos that was old.) The MG series has always been very interesting to me, as it utilises very unique gameplay mechanics.
 

Nieroshai

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GrinningManiac said:
JaymesFogarty said:
GrinningManiac said:
I didn't know about Eternal Darkness. That's a pretty neat idea, if only as cheesy as Mr."YOU SEEM TO LIKE MARIO SUNSHINE" in Metal Gear over there
Oi, it's called, "Metal Gear Solid." And that was a stroke of genius mind you!
Oi, it's called "Metal Gear Solid Snake." And that was a stroke of MADNESS mind you!
Either you're trolling(I'm guessing you are) or you don't really know. Metal Gear 2: Solid Snake was for the MSX2 console. Metal Gear Solid was for the Playstation, and featured Psycho Mantis. Metal Gear Solid: The Twin Snakes is a Gamecube remake of the Playstation version. And watch where you blaspheme, ALL Kojima productions are a stroke of genius!
 

Stabby Joe

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Jul 30, 2008
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The idea of a sanity meter hasn't always seemed fitting for a video game since it's apllying a point A to B bar on a complex state of mind.

Lovecraft themes and style, even a more direct adaptation in videos games however is always welcome because a game that has a neutral moral ground could be an excellent basis for a story since the original stories seemed to lack, or at least de-emphasize the human understanding of moral and ethics... instead things just "were".
 

Therumancer

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Nov 28, 2007
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I'm going to bring up two issues:

#1: One problem with horror is that humans are adaptable, nothing remains scary forever. If something doesn't kill us, it makes us stronger in a literal sense. No matter how horrible a situation most people are going to adapt to it after a while and about the fifith time a monster shows up, people are going to be thinking more in terms of "what are we going to do about that thing" more than an "argggh! a monster" panic response.

This applies to games as well, it's ridiculous to assume that a character is going to continue to be scared beyond reason by the same things again and again, and not adapt somewhat to their situation and the realities of survival.

This is also one of the reasons why typically you see horror in stand alone novels, or movies, as opposed to like 300 episode ongoing series, and why when someone does tend to draw it out it turns more into fantasy than horror because realistically the same variables are not going to generate absolute terror for the same people.

I think that most video games tend to get it right for the most part, with the protaganist becoming better adapted and more formidible and in control of the situation the longer he survives.

#2: When it comes to mechanics like "horror factor" or "sanity loss" in games, it's a throw back to paper and pencil RPGs. It's important to note that the role-playing is about taking control of a character with capabilities far differant from your own. Any kind of a game includes a degree of detachment from the protaganists, and when your playing a character far differant from yourself the detachment is even further. Nothing gets around the fact that we, the gamer, are sitting around a table playing a horror game with our nerd friends, or just made the desician to plop a horror title into our game machine.

A resistance to fear, and grip on sanity (in the short term) represet things that are going to apply the characters in the game which might have quite a differant threshold than the player. Someone who is a Marine, or career Navy (to use examples of people I've played with) might be quite able to deal with a lot of the situations in a horror game, like oh say finding a dead body, or losing a comrade. However if the character they are playing is a timid co-ed who acts as professor's research assistance with no combat training, or years of military experience the same logic might not apply. The mechanics represent the character's capabilities to deal with such things rather than the players. In the other direction a timid co-ed research assistant playing a Marine who has done multiple tours in Iraq, or a Naval veteran who has dealt with pirates on the African coast might respond to things in a very "meh" fashion despite how the player might react.

It's important to note that in the scope of computer games, the same basic logic applies. The character your controlling is not literally you, and is not detached from what is going on. For the person playing the game, the experience is no worse than a thrill ride or haunted house at the worst. On the other hand the protaganist in the actual game does not have that perspective. What's more the character your playing, especially in an adventure-style game, might be an even bigger nerd conceptually than the nerd liable to be playing the game.

Simply put a video game is never going to really scare a person playing it, except maybe some jump out shock, or being a bit creepy in a "WTF was the person programming this thinking" fashion, especially seeing as you knew ahead of time this was going to be horror. The nature of the medium, and choosing to expose oneself to horror invalidates that. Thus the need for RPG type mechanics taken right from tabletop play to give the experience integrity.

Perhaps with greater strides towards VR we will see a situation where games will become immersive enough to do better, by being able to literally involve the people playing as themselves. However the desician being made to experience a horror game is by it's nature ALWAYS going to dampen the experience.

Short of some kind of experiment, or hacker psycho who breaks into people's VR systems, traps them there, and runs horror game programs, I doubt we will ever see a genuine horror experience in gaming because there is ALWAYS going to be the seperation of the person knowing it's still a game, even then. As such, things like sanity meters and the like are probably going to remain a staple to anyone who wants to include such things.



#3: The original Cthulhu mythos stories by HP Lovecraft himself have not aged all that well, however some of the stories involving the mythos that he edited have fared a little better. He was so inspirational that as things stand now, people have simply done the same stuff so much better (even using his ideas) where his writing seems quaint in comparison.

I also do not think people are cynical enough to think of themselves as some kind of mould on a rock drifing through space to be honest, but given that space aliens have become common fodder for collective fantasies, ideas like that just aren't as shocking as they once were.

To put things into perspective the nerds of the 1920s didn't spend a lot of time drooling over the idea of lesbian sex with races like the Asari in "Mass Effect 2". The attitude was entirely differant.

Also "The Great Race Of Yith" was not malevolent or meant to be scary in of themselves. The point was that they were alien enough to not mind messing with the occasional lower life form (well from their perspective) in the pursuit of knowlege, but it's also noteworthy that at the same time that same group of beings arguably step up to the plate for humanity by providing crucial knowlege or pieces of a puzzle. After all they were the ones who fought the original war with Cthulhu and the gods he worshipped, and they who apparently placed things like the Elder Seals, before themselves being run off.

I think the attitude is sort of like how a guy might really like animals like alligators or something like that. He occasionally kills one to skin it and make stuff out of it, but he also does things like help propagate them, see to their protection, and defend their enviroment. It's not a perfect analogy, but Yithian intervention could be seen sort of like a guy killing an animal in your herd for his own benefit, but also chasing away your predators and arguably doing more good for you than bad, even if the end he doesn't view you as anything close to an equal.

Of course part of the problem with Lovecraft's work is that when he wrote that stuff he kind of felt humanity had peaked technologically. Right now we have weapons and things that go beyond what the Yithians ever had (albiet we do not have mental time travel). Writers from Chaosium used to make jokes like "what would happen if you nuked Cthulhu? He'd reform 15 minutes later... radioactive and mad" when by the actual concept Cthulhu himself wasn't all that (he isn't even actually a god, but a high priest and sorceror) a couple of nukes could probably solve the biggest problems in those stories. But the horror of the time was that by HP's logic nothing like a nuke could ever exist, he couldn't conceive of such a weapon, and he thought humanity would never progress much beyond the level of the weapons we had in his day. It's interesting when you consider that today we could easily massacre the most horrendously overpowering things that the minds 90 or so years ago could conceive to scare people. Says a lot about how far people can come when we become stronger than doomsday no-win scenarios we create for ourselves.