Sanity Meters

[AgentNein]

I'm sorry, let me state that my distaste with Yahtzee's comment is that "Alice" was one of the most imaginative FPS games I've ever played. 1000x better than any muddy brown military hack-shooter you can think of. And Yahtzee potshots it for a nitpick from the god damn manual? As I recall, the actual game never labels the meters. It's just flavor text from the manual. And even if you want to nitpick that, the whole game takes place in her mind anyway.* So the sanity label is far more appropriate than health, because she's not being physically shot at by card guards and boojums.

Seriously, I can't be the only person who thinks that comment was dumb.

*That's not a spoiler. The game, the manual and the Rutledge Analysis Diary(A box insert which adds some backstory.) all make that incredibly clear.

It was a throwaway joke about the fact that while he was talking about sanity meters in games, Alice had a "sanity meter" which was really a health meter and nothing more. You might not have been the only person to think it was a dumb joke, but you're probably one of the only ones who cared enough to post about it.

I'm hoping you're defensive enough to think that it was in any way a knock on the game.

As far as I go, I probably would've enjoyed Alice moreso if it didn't feel like Hot Topic: The Video Game.

 

[LadyRhian]

I like the idea of an invisible sanity meter. You don't know how much you have taken until the game starts screwing with you, and the more you take, the more the game screws around with you. Seeing stuff that isn't there, shadows on the walls turn into writing with vague threats against you, or specific threats against you as the damage (so to speak) gets worse. Or you start to see eyes looking out at you from the corners of your vision. You turn and they are gone, and when you turn back, they slowly return..

And the sound effects... the whine of a mosquito, the sound of pigs being slaughtered (mixed into the soundtrack subliminally) could have the same effect on people like the Exorcist, a film in which such a thing was apparently used.

 

[Dectilon]

Sanity loss is more interesting in the pen&paper-game though since it's in actuality a measure of how far detached you are from your humanity. As your character comes closer to what is actually true you start going insane. As a side effect, the lower your sanity the better your character is at performing magic rituals and the like. In a game where there really is no role-playing it's almost impossible to make a meaningful representation of your character going insane.

What we really need is a lovecraftian RPG. Having dialog options and similar choice paths open and close depending on your sanity sounds workable to me.

 

[reachforthesky]

Yahtzee doesn't believe in my religion! I will now refuse to ever pay heed to his opinion ever again!

 

[snowman6251]

I like the Eternal Darkness approach the most of the bunch but I think sanity meters should be invisible. Don't tell us how sane we are, that way when crazy shit happens I'll be like "Holy shit what the fuck" rather than "oh my sanity is low".

Also I think if your sanity gets too low the game should start conjuring things like fake enemies that disappear when you attack them or something like that. Get you to be unsure as to whether or not you want to use your ammo on the monster as it might be fake.

I approve and endorse this fleeting thought that will never be implemented.

I have ideas for games and concepts I'd like to see implemented in games. Alas I can't program for shit and many if not all of my ideas will never end up in a real game. It sucks

 

[TY7ERDURDEN]

but Yahtzee you charasmatic devil! Id's FPS-powerhouse-legendary-NIN-sountracked-genre-father QUAKE showed dramatic overtones of Lovecraftian writing! The ominous Quake slurping up every moment of human suffering by implanting his own beings into the human world for reasons floating widely between placing an visceral yardstick up to our capabilities/resilience and simple sadism.

Amnesia is the first game since ALONE IN THE DARK (1992 ed) that has truly made me feel helpless and therefore terrified in every stride I take. Games like DOOM 3 shock the piss out of you, but eventually you feel like Bill Paxton from aliens pouring rounds from the SAW loving the blood and pieces flying every where.... right up until they grab you through the floor boards. Dead Space was basically a gorier and less shocking 3rd person version of DOOM 3... with a terrible love interest sub-plot.

Amnesia made me feel like a shrieking little girl running away from the harry man who just offered me some sweeties.

 

[DaBozz]

Ugh Regardless of what you say about Clock Tower 3, that game scares the bloody shit out of me so much I actually feel like said school girl.

 

[FallenMessiah88]

The only game that has really frightened me in recent years is the first Condemned: Criminal Origins. I have always imagened that was how Silent Hill would be, if it was in first person.

 

[Luke Cartner]

Lets face it the only truly worthwhile insanity mechanic was playing a Malkavian in VtM:BL where what you see and hear gets twisted.
This us true to Lovecraftian ideals as well and would actually add to the fear of the setting as you (as in the books) really would begin to doubt what is real and what is not.

Lovecrafts books are what is called cumulative horror. That is the first reading, doesn't really scare you. The second is slightly creepy but ok. By the 4th or 5h reading it will give you night mares..
He does this by using the authors insanity. By not telling the reader things and in some cases outright lying (well the story teller is lying) to the reader.

Successful use of insanity as a mechanic would allow this to be translated into a game, ofcourse it would be damn hard to write but thats another story...

 

[Ih8pkmn]

Eternal Darkness was great. It had a solid enough story that you could pretty much ignore the sanity mechanic's ridiculousness. That's my opinion, at any rate.

but I agree that sanity meter should not be a bar. Instead, you should have a slight indication of your sanity level by having an enemy that just fades into smoke when hit or the game pretending you've lost control. You know, like in Eternal Darkness, but without the meter.

 

[ZippyDSMlee]

Its not the meter that simplifying it to much, its what happens when X or Y happens a meter ques a random event the higher the meter goes the higher the rate of events. The trouble is with that you will need meds for sanity and meds for health a one size fits all regeneration system can not handle it thus we will never really see a good exsmaple of it. I think COCCOTE went in the right direction. Only the player needs to be aware of the meter like games that use radiation. And most events will not kill you, incited you get one a few random things bad aim,bad sight,better sight,no sound,more acute sound,the ability to kill a thing with one hit and knock you to your feet, the ability to damage self as you hurt others,the ability to damage others while being hurt. Ya you might now and then put a pistol or gun to your ehad but unless its happening in a fight it wont kill you.

The trick is balancing it with meds and positive "rolls".

If the meter is the real problem then health meters need to go by same logic....I say thats madness!

 

[Ryokai]

We're all entitled to our opinions, and my reason and logic leads me to a different place then yours does, and that's fine

No, you aren't, and no, it isn't.

It is not OK to be wrong(be definition), and you don't deserve to live in a safe little bubble if someone tries to argue that you are.

Oh, okay. I see we all have to believe like you do, because you're perfect and we're all wrong forever.

Sheesh, you're as bad as those religious nutjobs trying to prevent evolution from being taught.

You're totally right. I'm not allowed to arrive at my conclusion using the facts and logic that seems correct to me, and I'm wrong for stating the statistic that most people believe in God.

What was I thinking, talking philosophy with my atheist friends in order to gain insight into their arguments and so arrive at a conclusion with more knowledge and logic?

HOW DARE I?

 

[Feylynn]

I propose we keep sanity, but agree it needs to do something new and snappy, like not appearing on screen.

If they want to represent a player going more insane they should just tie this invisible bar to the game progress and present you with your complimentary jacket. But if they insist on doing something more interactive then perhaps make these events sensitive to play style.
A stealthy non-confrontation type might see more wispy shadows sneaking about, they will have their heavy scare from the horrors already present, put them in positions to be afraid of those horrors.

The macho hack and slash type that's obviously to good at this game to scare with normal enemies now gets hunted down by a pyramid head mirror image of themselves, twisted by the devastation they cause, the flesh and blood they bathe in to continue their existence.

The player that reads to many books and twists their mind outside of reality and it's proper bounds should be confused, overwhelmed, the scenery could gradually become more convoluted and disorienting, like a blood soaked Escher carnival.

Though, I guess that would be better without the sanity bar, just mixing all of the above in Silent Hill 2-2.

 

[MikailCaboose]

It may not have been that scary...well actually it wasn't very scary at all...
but I will admit that I shat bricks when I though that my save-game had been erased in Eternal Darkness...
Although, the sanity effects did start to get a bit...annoying I will admit.

 

[Kermi]

Lovecraft was a cheap pulp author back in his day, maybe his works just were never scary.

Most of the classics revered today were cheap pulp back in the day. Shakespeare and the Sherlock Holmes stories are a couple of examples that spring to mind. Plus countless penny dreadfuls published at a time when the majority of the common people were just discovering that those squiggly marks you find in books corresponded with the words that might come out of their mouth.

 

[Vzzdak]

Extra Punctuation: Sanity Meters

Lovecraft doesn't translate too well into videogames.

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For those not familiar with it, Infocom published an excellent Lovecraft story titled, "Lurking Horror." It didn't have a sanity meter, though it was innovative in the sense of being a text adventure with sound effects.

I agree that Call of Cthulhu: DCotE had a strong start that declined into being a simple shooter. In the original novel, "Shadow Over Innsmouth," which the game draws upon for inspiration, the story ended when the protagonist miraculously escaped the town. To its credit, the game introduced much more adventure before escaping the town, though it could have concluded at that point and been stronger in terms of story.

 

[Mister Benoit]

I like the Eternal Darkness approach the most of the bunch but I think sanity meters should be invisible. Don't tell us how sane we are, that way when crazy shit happens I'll be like "Holy shit what the fuck" rather than "oh my sanity is low".

Also I think if your sanity gets too low the game should start conjuring things like fake enemies that disappear when you attack them or something like that. Get you to be unsure as to whether or not you want to use your ammo on the monster as it might be fake.

Cover that part of the screen with a piece of paper >.> pretty sad I know.

 

[Vzzdak]

Oh, it's true about the bit in Call of Cthulhu: DCotE, where insanity could cause your character to shoot themselves. Part of the plot involved being trapped in a puzzle room that contained a Cthulhu statue. If you spent too much time solving the puzzle, the constant sense of dread from the statue would cause you to use the handgun on yourself.

To picture how this worked in gameplay, you're trying to push a pedestal around, whilst your vision is becoming steadily blurred and movement sluggish because of the Cthulhu statue. So you might have an idea of how to solve the puzzle, but you're fighting the sanity mechanic all the while.

Aside from that puzzle room, most other hits to your sanity would recover over time.

 

[Fearzone]

Sanity meters didn't "extend" to the pen-and-paper game Call of Cthulhu... they began there. And in a role play environment sanity rolls and sanity levels totally enhanced the fun of the game, and have an appropriate place.

Much as I love Lovecraft and the pen-and-paper game, I've never played a specifically Lovecraft-inspired computer game--the closest I ever got to that was the original Half-life.

For those who want to read Lovecraft, which I applaud, most are short or medium-sized stories and there are a couple anthologies out there that I recommend: "Bloodcurdling Tales of Horror and the Macabre," (as the better one to start with), and "Dreams of Terror and Death" if you want more, which you should. Both are published by Del Rey and mine are 20 years old so I'm not sure are still in print. Just get an anthology with The Call of Cthulhu, The Dunwich Horror, and Shadow Over Innsmouth--at least those.

 

[KEM10]

I like the Eternal Darkness approach the most of the bunch but I think sanity meters should be invisible. Don't tell us how sane we are, that way when crazy shit happens I'll be like "Holy shit what the fuck" rather than "oh my sanity is low".

Also I think if your sanity gets too low the game should start conjuring things like fake enemies that disappear when you attack them or something like that. Get you to be unsure as to whether or not you want to use your ammo on the monster as it might be fake.

Obviously you didn't do the play through where the sanity spells were the last you receive. That did happen. But besides the extremes, your moments became more jerky and the screen was always looking a bit different. I played a level long enough and it wasn't until someone came in and told me that it was tilted 30 degrees. It was slowly morphing and just set the mood for the eerie temple that made it good.

A hidden bar would be good, but if it goes down to 0 you cracked and were deemed unplayable (read dead). To have a hidden meeter that would "kill" you when it hit the bottom would be deemed cheating or just stupid.