School shooting at Texas Elementary school, several children reported dead

[Elijin]

Has it even been 10 years since the one in connecticut? At this point I'm just hopeless about this sort of thing. Unless you have schools operate in pocket dimensions these things will just keep happening.

The rest of the western world disagrees with that whole "can't be helped" attitude towards mass shootings, doubly so for school shootings.

 

[laggyteabag]

The rest of the western world disagrees with that whole "can't be helped" attitude towards mass shootings, doubly so for school shootings.

Im really not too sure what the US could do, though.

This is obviously a problem in desperate need of a solution, but there are (according to wikipedia) 1.2 guns for every 1 citizen in the country. Even if they stopped all new gun sales right now, the country will still be flooded with millions of firearms.

And even if the government introduced a buy-back scheme, there would still so many staunch 2A supporters, criminals, and people scared of those criminals, who would refuse to hand their guns in. I doubt it would hardly make a dent.

I honestly think America may be too far gone to fix this problem. Decades of lax gun control, and fetishising firearms have gotten America into this mess, and they will need to live with it - or sadly not, as the case my be.

I just don't see this being resolved, even if the most extreme gun control measures were put in place immediately. At least not in our lifetimes.

 

[Dreiko]

The rest of the western world disagrees with that whole "can't be helped" attitude towards mass shootings, doubly so for school shootings.

It's a composite problem generated from various legal, cultural and psychological causes that are present in a unique combination in this specific country. I just count the rest of the world lucky to not be in that situation.

 

[Kyrian007]

Im really not too sure what the US could do, though.

This is obviously a problem in desperate need of a solution, but there are (according to wikipedia) 1.2 guns for every 1 citizen in the country. Even if they stopped all new gun sales right now, the country will still be flooded with millions of firearms.

And even if the government introduced a buy-back scheme, there would still so many staunch 2A supporters, criminals, and people scared of those criminals, who would refuse to hand their guns in. I doubt it would hardly make a dent.

I honestly think America may be too far gone to fix this problem. Decades of lax gun control, and fetishising firearms have gotten America into this mess, and they will need to live with it - or sadly not, as the case my be.

I just don't see this being resolved, even if the most extreme gun control measures were put in place immediately. At least not in our lifetimes.

It will be rough. It will take time. Things will be bad. The argument that always comes up when gun bans are talked about is, "banning guns only keeps good people from getting guns. Bad guys will still have them and then what?" And I've always thought of it as a pretty stupid argument. Bad guys STEAL guns. But if they don't have stores to steal (or buy I guess) them from or "good guys" to steal (or buy) them from... how will they get them, if there just isn't any supply anymore? But the question I guess isn't as stupid as I've always insisted. Bad guys will have the guns. For a while they will still be easy to get. Guns used in crimes then confiscated and destroyed will take a long time to actually put a dent in the supply. Things WILL get worse before they get better. But I'll repeat the answer... It will be rough. It will take time. Things will be bad. Only eventually will guns become so uncommon that shootings like this will become a rarity. Maybe it will take generations, it certainly wouldn't happen within my lifetime.

And that's why it won't happen. Americans aren't selfless enough to suffer just so things won't be so bad for their grandchildren and great grandchildren. Some individuals will, but any effort that would take a vast majority... isn't going to happen.

 

[Dreiko]

It will be rough. It will take time. Things will be bad. The argument that always comes up when gun bans are talked about is, "banning guns only keeps good people from getting guns. Bad guys will still have them and then what?" And I've always thought of it as a pretty stupid argument. Bad guys STEAL guns. But if they don't have stores to steal (or buy I guess) them from or "good guys" to steal (or buy) them from... how will they get them, if there just isn't any supply anymore? But the question I guess isn't as stupid as I've always insisted. Bad guys will have the guns. For a while they will still be easy to get. Guns used in crimes then confiscated and destroyed will take a long time to actually put a dent in the supply. Things WILL get worse before they get better. But I'll repeat the answer... It will be rough. It will take time. Things will be bad. Only eventually will guns become so uncommon that shootings like this will become a rarity. Maybe it will take generations, it certainly wouldn't happen within my lifetime.

And that's why it won't happen. Americans aren't selfless enough to suffer just so things won't be so bad for their grandchildren and great grandchildren. Some individuals will, but any effort that would take a vast majority... isn't going to happen.

Our government is owned by gun and military profiteers so the laws necessary aren't gonna pass any time soon anyways. It's not even up to the people, even if they wanted to sacrifice for the long term they couldn't actually achieve legislation that'd allow em to do that.


My pocket dimension plan, or something close to it, maybe underground school vaults, is still more realistic than a gunless american society.

 

[Thaluikhain]

Im really not too sure what the US could do, though.

Well, as well as gun control, the overwhelming majority of big shootings are committed by men, more than half of whom are known for domestic violence already, and generally they hope to be famous afterwards. Often with a gun they nicked off someone else.

If the media would present them as sad inadequates who weren't ever going to do anything with their lives (which is not unlikely to be the truth), that'd help. Or if they just refuse to publish their manifestos. If police et al took domestic violence seriously, they'd nip a lot of this in the bud. If people were to take a look at what society is teaching their male kids, that'd help, cause either males are inherently prone to evil or they are being brought up wrong (nature or nurture) or both, and it's not just nature.

Hell, if they just made people keep their guns out of reach of others (no small task, admittedly), that'd help.

There's a lot that could be done, maybe it won't fix the problem, but it'd help more than saying thoughts or prayers or getting more guns or demonising the mentally ill.

 

[tstorm823]

But where was the good guy with a gun?

The shooter was shot dead by a border patrol agent that rushed to the scene.

 

[BrawlMan]

On a related note:

The parents of the shooter are careless jackasses. You ain't going to any other county for a more "fair trial".

Parents of suspected Oxford school shooter claim they can’t get fair trial in Oakland County, request move

The parents of the suspected Oxford High School shooter claim they won’t get a fair trial in Oakland County, and they’re requesting the trial be moved elsewhere.

www.clickondetroit.com

I can't blame the victims on this. Especially when there were warning signs that's something was going to happen.

Victims, parents of Oxford school shooting victims sue school employees

The lawsuit against Oxford Community School District and administrators

abcnews.go.com

 

[hanselthecaretaker]

It will be rough. It will take time. Things will be bad. The argument that always comes up when gun bans are talked about is, "banning guns only keeps good people from getting guns. Bad guys will still have them and then what?" And I've always thought of it as a pretty stupid argument. Bad guys STEAL guns. But if they don't have stores to steal (or buy I guess) them from or "good guys" to steal (or buy) them from... how will they get them, if there just isn't any supply anymore? But the question I guess isn't as stupid as I've always insisted. Bad guys will have the guns. For a while they will still be easy to get. Guns used in crimes then confiscated and destroyed will take a long time to actually put a dent in the supply. Things WILL get worse before they get better. But I'll repeat the answer... It will be rough. It will take time. Things will be bad. Only eventually will guns become so uncommon that shootings like this will become a rarity. Maybe it will take generations, it certainly wouldn't happen within my lifetime.

And that's why it won't happen. Americans aren't selfless enough to suffer just so things won't be so bad for their grandchildren and great grandchildren. Some individuals will, but any effort that would take a vast majority... isn't going to happen.

It’d basically need to be a worldwide effort to eliminate firearms though too, because the black market still exists and the people whose hands they most need to stay out of would still seek them out there or wherever else the U.S. readily supplies them.

Basically the cat’s been out of the bag ever since gun powder was created, and has been fucking humanity ever since under the guise of “liberty”.

 

[bluegate]

Those children are fucking heroes, heroically laying down their lives as the price for Freedom.

God Bless America.

 

[The Rogue Wolf]

The shooter was shot dead by a border patrol agent that rushed to the scene.

If only he'd gotten there eighteen nineteen dead kids earlier.

 

[Thaluikhain]

It’d basically need to be a worldwide effort to eliminate firearms though too, because the black market still exists and the people whose hands they most need to stay out of would still seek them out there or wherever else the U.S. readily supplies them.

Basically the cat’s been out of the bag ever since gun powder was created, and has been fucking humanity ever since under the guise of “liberty”.

And yet, of all the Western countries, this is a major and recurring problem for the US, and once in a blue moon problem for any given country that isn't the US.

 

[hanselthecaretaker]

And yet, of all the Western countries, this is a major and recurring problem for the US, and once in a blue moon problem for any given country that isn't the US.

Yeah it’s a culture thing, but that’s possibly an even bigger impediment to gun control than anything.

 

[Specter Von Baren]

I think the city planning in America makes people unhappy. I hate the car culture so much. Can't stand it. I hate how separate single family housing is the only housing permitted for most residential zoning. Suburbia wastes money and stretches everything out with ugly concrete that costs a fortune to maintain and is worse for the environment. It's also why cities always have so many big box stores that put small shops out of business. Very few places have zoning laws that allow shops to be integrated with residential areas. I want walkable cities, where you don't need a car to get anywhere. It's cheaper to build that way and cheaper to maintain. People don't walk because there is nowhere to walk. In many places, sidewalks just end, because it's assumed that the person will drive. So people don't look at each other. They get in the car, drive to the big store and go home. Takes a long time to get anywhere that isn't fucking ugly, and those places are few and far between. Parking lots, businesses, industry, gas station, industry, business, redevelopment, bland suburbs, business, parking lots, bunch of apartment buildings, redevelopment, industry, businesses, gas station, repeat, all with wide roads connecting it all, and the endless noise of cars. It's infuriating. Cities should be designed for people, not cars.

I agree with you except on cars. The places that aren't so heavily urbanized wouldn't work without cars to get around them and places like Japan show that you don't need cars to create those same kind of concrete and steel wastelands. Where did you get the idea that cars are what cause cities like that? Even before the invention of the car, cities were smelly, ugly, hell holes prone to disease outbreaks.

 

[Xprimentyl]

It will be rough. It will take time. Things will be bad. The argument that always comes up when gun bans are talked about is, "banning guns only keeps good people from getting guns. Bad guys will still have them and then what?" And I've always thought of it as a pretty stupid argument. Bad guys STEAL guns. But if they don't have stores to steal (or buy I guess) them from or "good guys" to steal (or buy) them from... how will they get them, if there just isn't any supply anymore? But the question I guess isn't as stupid as I've always insisted. Bad guys will have the guns. For a while they will still be easy to get. Guns used in crimes then confiscated and destroyed will take a long time to actually put a dent in the supply. Things WILL get worse before they get better. But I'll repeat the answer... It will be rough. It will take time. Things will be bad. Only eventually will guns become so uncommon that shootings like this will become a rarity. Maybe it will take generations, it certainly wouldn't happen within my lifetime.

And that's why it won't happen. Americans aren't selfless enough to suffer just so things won't be so bad for their grandchildren and great grandchildren. Some individuals will, but any effort that would take a vast majority... isn't going to happen.

I don't own a gun, but have toyed with the idea of getting one to protect myself from the psychos... then I realize the irony and vicious cycle this country is in. We're damned. I imagine stuff like Mad Max, y'know, post-apocalyptic shit where we're all driving dune buggies and running around using hub caps and toasters as clothing, will probably just be on US soil; the rest of the world will continue to evolve into decent, civil societies and watch the goings-on in the US like snuff reality television.

Canada, save yourself; start building that wall. You can have Alaska.

 

[Thaluikhain]

I don't own a gun, but have toyed with the idea of getting one to protect myself from the psychos... then I realize the irony and vicious cycle this country is in.

Eh, can't fault people in the US for getting a gun to defend themselves, but the people who look forwards to when they get to use their gun to defend themselves worry me.

Having said that, if people were serious they'd also learn first aid and a bunch of other things beyond just getting a gun.

 

[Seanchaidh]

The shooter was shot dead by a border patrol agent that rushed to the scene.

The cops that exchanged fire with him before he entered the school apparently couldn't be bothered.

 

[Xprimentyl]

Eh, can't fault people in the US for getting a gun to defend themselves, but the people who look forwards to when they get to use their gun to defend themselves worry me.

Having said that, if people were serious they'd also learn first aid and a bunch of other things beyond just getting a gun.

That's the vicious cycle I'm referencing; to each individual, everyone ELSE are the psychos, so we've wound up in this Mexican standoff hoarding all the arms waiting for everyone else to flinch. Meanwhile, healthcare is overpriced, education is too expensive, minimum wage has yet to match inflated pricing meaning earning a living wage while maintaining healthy work/life balance is extremely difficult, etc. We're the perfect petri dish to cultivate "the psychos" we need guns to protect ourselves from. Fuck... we really and truly are screwed.

 

[XsjadoBlayde]

Let's hear Alex Jones tell us how this was faked.

Wish. Granted.





Sorry, to balance out the horridness with some semblance of humanity;

After Texas shooting, Conn. senator begs for gun compromise

Connecticut U.S. Sen. Chris Murphy came to Congress representing Sandy Hook. Now he is begging his colleagues to finally pass legislation that addresses the nation’s continuing gun violence problem.

www.snopes.com

HARTFORD, Conn. (AP) — A U.S. senator who came to Congress representing the Connecticut community where 26 elementary school students and educators were killed nearly a decade ago begged his colleagues Tuesday, as the latest school shooting unfolded, to pass legislation addressing the nation’s gun violence problem.

The mass shooting at Robb Elementary School in Uvalde, Texas, nearly 2,000 miles (3,200 km) away from Newtown, Connecticut, felt all too familiar to residents and officials who saw many similarities to the attack by a lone gunman at Sandy Hook Elementary School in 2012.

A gutted Sen. Chris Murphy took to the Senate floor Tuesday and demanded that lawmakers accomplish what they failed to do after 20 children, mostly 6 or 7 years old, and six educators in Newtown, Connecticut died on Dec. 14, 2012. Congress has been unable to pass substantial gun violence legislation since the collapse of a bipartisan Senate effort in the aftermath of that massacre.

“What are we doing?” Murphy asked. The Democrat, who represented Newtown during his time as a U.S. congressman, urged his colleagues to find a compromise.

“I’m here on this floor to beg — to literally get down on my hands and knees — to beg my colleagues. Find a path forward here. Work with us to find a way to pass laws that make this less likely,” he said.

“I just don’t understand why people here think we’re powerless,” Murphy told reporters later. “We aren’t.”

He said he was working with colleagues — and reaching out in particular to Republican Sen. John Cornyn of Texas — to see if they could muster any bipartisan support for gun violence legislation.

Though the party of Democratic President Joe Biden has slim control of Congress, bills on gun violence have been stymied in the face of Republican opposition in the Senate.

Last year, the House passed two bills to expand background checks on firearms purchases. One would have closed a loophole for private and online sales; the other would have extended the background check review period. Both languished in the 50-50 Senate, where Democrats need at least 10 Republican votes to overcome objections from a filibuster.

Tuesday’s tragedy in Texas appeared similar to the Sandy Hook shooting, where a 20-year-old man shot his way into the locked school on Dec. 14, 2012, then killed 20 first graders and six adults with an AR-15-type rifle purchased legally by his mother. He killed himself as police arrived. Before going to the school, he fatally shot his mother at their Newtown home.

“My son never came home from Sandy Hook. My heart bleeds for Texas as I relive Dylan’s murder,” Sandy Hook parent Nicole Hockley wrote in an op-ed for USA Today.

In February, the families of nine Sandy Hook victims reached a $73 million settlement in a lawsuit against the maker of the rifle used in the shooting. The case against Remington, filed in 2015, was closely watched by gun control advocates, gun rights supporters and manufacturers because of its potential to provide a road map for victims of other shootings to sue firearm makers.

The families and a survivor argued the company should have never sold such a dangerous weapon to the public. They’ve said their focus is on preventing future mass shootings by forcing gun companies to be more responsible with their products and how they market them.

“I hope that more people stand up and demand action and demand change and stop just accepting the tweets of thoughts and prayers. That’s not going to save lives. It’s not going to bring people back,” said Erica Lafferty, daughter of Dawn Lafferty Hochsprung, the slain principal of Sandy Hook.

“It’s really just a gun lobby talking point and something that people feel that they need to say in lieu of action,” she told The Associated Press.

Lafferty, program manager at Everytown for Gun Safety and an advocate for universal background checks, said she decided a couple years ago to step back from talking to the media following what became a succession of mass shootings.

On Tuesday, struck by the familiarity of the aerial news shots of an elementary school and the fact the victims included children as young as second grade and educators like her mother, Lafferty thought she’d try to digest what had happened in Texas privately as well.

It didn’t work.

“I think that lasted maybe five minutes before I hear my mom’s voice in my head: `Get off your butt, kid. This is definitely your time,’” Lafferty said.

Advocacy groups that formed after Sandy Hook also expressed dismay as news of the shooting spread.

“For the past decade, we have warned all Americans, including elected politicians across the nation, that if a mass shooting can happen in Sandy Hook then it can happen anywhere,” Po Murray, chair of the Newtown Action Alliance, said in a written statement.

Connecticut Sen. Richard Blumenthal, a Democrat, tweeted how the “senseless violence will stop only when Congress matches thoughts & prayers with action.”

Murphy acknowledged the problem of gun violence won’t be solved overnight. But, he said, it can be addressed.

“I understand my Republican colleagues will not agree to everything that I may support, but there is a common denominator that we can find,” Murphy said. “But by doing something, we at least stop sending this quiet message of endorsement to these killers whose brains are breaking, who see the highest levels of government doing nothing, shooting after shooting.”

 

[Dreiko]

Eh, can't fault people in the US for getting a gun to defend themselves, but the people who look forwards to when they get to use their gun to defend themselves worry me.

Having said that, if people were serious they'd also learn first aid and a bunch of other things beyond just getting a gun.

Statistically speaking you're more likely to be injured or die from just owning a gun than from some crazed killer. Mainly due to accidents or negligence. If you're always around a gun there's a lot more chances for something to happen, but you very very rarely will come across a crazed shooter.


People just like to own a gun to feel safe in most cases, to feel like they have power.