Schools begin banning teachers from using red ink

[Tiger Sora]

Political correctness gone mad I say, MAD!

And this isn't gona help kids any bit, they're feelings are still gona hurt wether that 20% is in red, black or blue ink.

 

[Anodos]

I wish I was kidding about this, but some schools in the U.K. have actually prohibited teachers from using red ink pens when correcting student assignments. They say the red ink is "demoralizing to students" and "making them do worse in school." Are you freaking kidding me?! Red ink makes sense to me because then you can actually see where the mistakes and markings are so you know where to fix mistakes! People need to stop being so freaking sensitive about everything. Coddling your kids all the way through school isn't going to do shit for them. If they're doing bad then they're doing bad and you're not helping them by making it easier for them to handle.

Here's the link if anyone wants to read the article to make sure I'm not bullshitting...
http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-1101790/Teachers-banned-using-confrontational-red-ink-case-upsets-children.html

Its agreeable, because the ENTIRE SCHOOL SYSTEM is messed up. The repetition and punishment system doesnt actually get better results.

 

[Stall]

According to my parents (both of whom are/were teachers for all of most of their professional careers), teachers in the US have generally been discouraged from using red ink to grade papers for some time now.

This isn't really a new or unusual practice. Why is everyone getting all mad about it? This isn't really "political correctness". You'd have to be half insane to believe this is "political correctness"... it's just not using an aggressive color like red to grade papers.

 

[Jakub324]

Loads of kids don't care about school anyway! Now, they'll just miss all the mistakes and go out for an early fag!
EDIT: If you're American, replace "fag" with "cigarette".

 

[Ledan]

Ah yes.....
If you want to see what happens when you coddle your kids and don't tell them when they are doing bad, look at the Swedish schoolsystem.
It's going down the drain. Seriously.
STOP WITH THE WHOLE "Hey. I have an idea, why don't we make it easier an easier for kids, so that they don't feel bad. Y'know, they are easily demoralized, and morale is what counts. Not knowledge or smarts. We shouldn't encourage them to do work, just smile and say "you are a good boy. Yes you are." even when they fail completely. Oh! and lets make it harder to fail, and turn a+ and b- into the same thing. That sounds like a great idea!" (dramatization)
It just makes it worse...... go do someting hard. Like the IB.

 

[Yosato]

Wait, what about for just general marking? I got my fair share of shit marks in school but I got just as many phrases and sums underlined or circled with a red pen saying 'Excellent!' beside it.

 

[4173]

So a pile of green would make a student more motivated? What a load of crap. The only reason red has negative connotations is because it has been used a long time for correcting mistakes, and thus the color in schoolwork is connected to bad work/mistakes.

When we do work correctly we are not challenged, if we are not challenged we do not evolve. Mistakes are a part of the learning experience, and are usually what we learn FROM. Red, green, purple pen...who the fuck cares?

No, it wouldn't make them more motivated. It is hypothesized to make them less un-motivated. And of course you're right, but changing the colour of pens is easier than changing an entire culture. I think mistakes are treated way more as fuck-ups than learning opportunities.

No. By doing this we are creating an environment where making mistakes is seen as bad, and something to be avoided, and even kept secret. That does not help learning. Kids need to learn that making mistakes is ok, as long as you fix it.

Red is clear. Red means stop, danger, or beef if it's Oxo. Green means continue, this is ok, or vegetable. I will not teach vegetables.

The failure is not in the colour of the pen, it's in the way making mistakes is interpreted. It's up to the teacher to reinforce the idea that making mistakes is ok, and that things can be fixed. Not that potential problems should be avoided or hidden.

Yes, I'm a teacher. Yes I use a red pen for marking. No, I won't stop using it... unless I happen to lose it somewhere.

I suspect that environment already exists. I certainly felt like it did. If I can use a personal anecdote hypothetical:

Let's say I study 5 hours for a math test and get 80%. I have no idea what would have happened if I studied more. Maybe after the 6th hour I would have got 84%. Maybe I could have studied for 12 hours and remained at 80%. So each mistake is bad, because it creates this situation of tension. Each mistake is an inadequacy I have no idea how to fix.

Maybe this is just a personal thing and I'm projecting it onto other students. And I understand the desire to push the students so they learn, investigate, think etc. But people kept telling me to do my best, but they never fucking told me what that was.

To wit if I thought I did my best, but there were mistakes, and I'm supposed to learn from those mistakes, by definition I didn't do my best.

But I never said anything about coddling. Coddling is counter-productive of course. It spawns entitled dipshits, I agree......what does that have to do with red ink? You can critique someone's essay with any color in the rainbow/sharpie spectrum. The benefit of not using red, imo, is that it doesn't seem like every word you're saying is a death threat to the students' loved ones.

Look, I'm for this because as a good, but rebellious student, I know I've waved off red-marked criticism tons of times, because I thought of it as "Mr.Senile's bullshit technicalities that I don't want to pay attention to". Was it right to do that? Absolutely not. Am I the only one who does do that? NO fucking Way! Students like me take constructive criticism MUCH better, when the teacher isn't hiding behind a color-coded veneer of arbitrary power and feelings of supremacy. I take constructive criticism from teachers who tell me, through their markings: "I am not on a higher level of existence, that you cannot hope to grasp with your inferior mind. I am, rather, a human being, just like you. However I am Waaay more experienced than you are on this subject; so let me tell you where and how you are wrong, so you can get better at it."

And you're going about it wrong by assuming that the red ink is a power play. It's a commonly available color that stands out against blue ink, black ink, and pencil. It means "you got this wrong, and I'm showing you so you can learn from the mistake." As for what you were saying earlier about a 500 year old system that exists to humiliate students, it's nothing of the sort. Old fashioned teaching techniques have been around for a long time for a reason; they work.

I have to say I frequently felt the same way. Every highlighted mistake was a big fucking sign saying "why don't you know everything" in flashing neon. It holds me to a standard I can never achieve. Even if I get 100% on a particular thing, I know it was partly luck - which questions were asked. Short of literally memorizing the entire textbook, I'm always failing.

 

[Zaik]

lol daily mail?

Don't they put out some fake story about stupid bs like this in schools every month or so?

 

[GiglameshSoulEater]

Its the daily mail.
Conclusion: it is bullshit.

 

[Owyn_Merrilin]

So a pile of green would make a student more motivated? What a load of crap. The only reason red has negative connotations is because it has been used a long time for correcting mistakes, and thus the color in schoolwork is connected to bad work/mistakes.

When we do work correctly we are not challenged, if we are not challenged we do not evolve. Mistakes are a part of the learning experience, and are usually what we learn FROM. Red, green, purple pen...who the fuck cares?

No, it wouldn't make them more motivated. It is hypothesized to make them less un-motivated. And of course you're right, but changing the colour of pens is easier than changing an entire culture. I think mistakes are treated way more as fuck-ups than learning opportunities.

No. By doing this we are creating an environment where making mistakes is seen as bad, and something to be avoided, and even kept secret. That does not help learning. Kids need to learn that making mistakes is ok, as long as you fix it.

Red is clear. Red means stop, danger, or beef if it's Oxo. Green means continue, this is ok, or vegetable. I will not teach vegetables.

The failure is not in the colour of the pen, it's in the way making mistakes is interpreted. It's up to the teacher to reinforce the idea that making mistakes is ok, and that things can be fixed. Not that potential problems should be avoided or hidden.

Yes, I'm a teacher. Yes I use a red pen for marking. No, I won't stop using it... unless I happen to lose it somewhere.

I suspect that environment already exists. I certainly felt like it did. If I can use a personal anecdote hypothetical:

Let's say I study 5 hours for a math test and get 80%. I have no idea what would have happened if I studied more. Maybe after the 6th hour I would have got 84%. Maybe I could have studied for 12 hours and remained at 80%. So each mistake is bad, because it creates this situation of tension. Each mistake is an inadequacy I have no idea how to fix.

Maybe this is just a personal thing and I'm projecting it onto other students. And I understand the desire to push the students so they learn, investigate, think etc. But people kept telling me to do my best, but they never fucking told me what that was.

To wit if I thought I did my best, but there were mistakes, and I'm supposed to learn from those mistakes, by definition I didn't do my best.

But I never said anything about coddling. Coddling is counter-productive of course. It spawns entitled dipshits, I agree......what does that have to do with red ink? You can critique someone's essay with any color in the rainbow/sharpie spectrum. The benefit of not using red, imo, is that it doesn't seem like every word you're saying is a death threat to the students' loved ones.

Look, I'm for this because as a good, but rebellious student, I know I've waved off red-marked criticism tons of times, because I thought of it as "Mr.Senile's bullshit technicalities that I don't want to pay attention to". Was it right to do that? Absolutely not. Am I the only one who does do that? NO fucking Way! Students like me take constructive criticism MUCH better, when the teacher isn't hiding behind a color-coded veneer of arbitrary power and feelings of supremacy. I take constructive criticism from teachers who tell me, through their markings: "I am not on a higher level of existence, that you cannot hope to grasp with your inferior mind. I am, rather, a human being, just like you. However I am Waaay more experienced than you are on this subject; so let me tell you where and how you are wrong, so you can get better at it."

And you're going about it wrong by assuming that the red ink is a power play. It's a commonly available color that stands out against blue ink, black ink, and pencil. It means "you got this wrong, and I'm showing you so you can learn from the mistake." As for what you were saying earlier about a 500 year old system that exists to humiliate students, it's nothing of the sort. Old fashioned teaching techniques have been around for a long time for a reason; they work.

I have to say I frequently felt the same way. Every highlighted mistake was a big fucking sign saying "why don't you know everything" in flashing neon. It holds me to a standard I can never achieve. Even if I get 100% on a particular thing, I know it was partly luck - which questions were asked. Short of literally memorizing the entire textbook, I'm always failing.

Let me put it this way: if you can't handle criticism and people pointing out when you're wrong, you aren't going to do well in the real world. It's something you have to learn at some point in your life. Of course, maybe it's my background as a musician talking. Musicians generally don't get nasty about mistakes, but they sure as hell let you know what mistakes you've made, where and when you made them, and how to fix them so you don't make them again. As a result, musicians have to have a thick enough skin to handle criticism -- if they don't have it and they can't get it, they really can't cut it as musicians, even at an amateur level. This is a good mindset to have no matter what material you're learning.

Edit: Also, it's clearly not holding you to a standard you can't achieve. A paper with absolutely no marks is perfect; there is no such thing as a perfect paper. What you need to aim for is a passing grade, preferably the highest passing grade you can reasonably get. You don't need to aim for perfection, but you do need to understand that if you don't do your work perfectly, it will have marks on it. That's going to be true no matter what color of ink is used. Don't think of it as holding you to a standard where you're expected to be perfect; think of it as a standard where perfect is the ideal, and you want to get as close to it as possible, but it's not the end of the world if you don't hit it.

Edit Edit: And your last line is particularly telling. You do not have to memorize the entire text book to avoid failure. You need to get better than 60% of the questions right, at least with the system we use in the US. Besides, a properly written test won't be picking out obscure facts from the text book; it's going to be based around main ideas, things that are repeated constantly, titles, and things that are in bold print. If you're getting random questions about things neither the text nor the instruction stressed, you've got a teacher who doesn't know how to write tests. Otherwise, you probably don't know how to properly read a text book to get the information that is most likely to be on a test; there's a definite pattern to it. I'm not saying that to demean you, I'm just pointing out where a likely flaw in your study habits. If it sounds like what I'm saying applies to you, see about getting some tutoring. There's absolutely nothing wrong with asking for help.

Final edit: I'm sorry about all of these edits. I'm a bit sleep deprived, and I have a tendency to respond to stuff piecemeal when I'm in that state. I noticed what you said about how, if you have things you need to improve after doing your best, you aren't doing your best. That is looking at it all wrong. For most people, even when they do things the absolute best way they can, they don't generally get it perfect on the first try. Especially when you're dealing with something like math, where you're learning a skill, not just cramming your head full of knowledge, you aren't always going to fully grasp a concept by the time your first test on it comes up. That test gives you a chance to find out what you don't understand, and fix it further down the road. The only way what you described wouldn't be doing your best is if you decided not to go back and learn from your mistakes. Mistakes happen; doing our best isn't about not making them at all, it's about learning why we made them, and trying not to make the same mistake twice.

 

[estoria-etnia]

I am currently slamming my head into a wall.

 

[JasonKaotic]

...Seriously? For 15 years in a row (is it 15? Something like that) average GCSE results have been better than they were the previous year. Therefore we need to stop teachers from making students do badly.
And also, the colour red is intimidating to the students' fragile minds.
Nice logic.

 

[Mr Fixit]

If i were a teacher, which thankfully, for the childrens benifit, i am not, I would not only use red ink for EVERYTHING but i would put large angry faces on the papers of any student that failed. I'm an ass & i know it. Children should be very clearly told what mistakes were made & told how to fix them. Stop trying to protect children from the big bad world & teach them how to deal with it. Yeah thats about it, all this PC bull is just annoying.

 

[4173]

Edit: Also, it's clearly not holding you to a standard you can't achieve. A paper with absolutely no marks is perfect; there is no such thing as a perfect paper. What you need to aim for is a passing grade, preferably the highest passing grade you can reasonably get. You don't need to aim for perfection, but you do need to understand that if you don't do your work perfectly, it will have marks on it. That's going to be true no matter what color of ink is used. Don't think of it as holding you to a standard where you're expected to be perfect; think of it as a standard where perfect is the ideal, and you want to get as close to it as possible, but it's not the end of the world if you don't hit it.

And as soon as someone tells me what reasonable is, or what possible means. Seriously, did you ever have a teacher tell you, "eh, you did good enough?"

Edit Edit: And your last line is particularly telling. You do not have to memorize the entire text book to avoid failure. You need to get better than 60% of the questions right, at least with the system we use in the US. Besides, a properly written test won't be picking out obscure facts from the text book; it's going to be based around main ideas, things that are repeated constantly, titles, and things that are in bold print. If you're getting random questions about things neither the text nor the instruction stressed, you've got a teacher who doesn't know how to write tests. Otherwise, you probably don't know how to properly read a text book to get the information that is most likely to be on a test; there's a definite pattern to it. I'm not saying that to demean you, I'm just pointing out where a likely flaw in your study habits. If it sounds like what I'm saying applies to you, see about getting some tutoring. There's absolutely nothing wrong with asking for help.

Actually, I should refine that a little bit. Once one reaches a certain standard, then one will never hear "good enough" again. Let's say I get a 92% on the first assignment, I've just set a standard. No one will tell me that 80% is good enough. Then I'm left guessing* what amount of time and effort will replicate that 92% when we move to the next topic.

I realize this represents to some extent (big or small) a reflection of my personality and experiences as opposed to what we would want to call typical. At the same time, I can't be the only one who thought this way either. It took me years before I bought into the idea that perfect isn't the standard, the goal, and I still have to remind myself that before every paper or test.

I'm probably switching tenses something fierce. The more extreme statements are how I thought in grade school. I have curtailed it somewhat today.

*and I really do mean guessing

 

[Seventh Actuality]

The Daily Mail: Where every day is slow news day!

 

[jpoon]

My god, I hate political correctness.

 

[AndrewC]

Um, the article is 3 years old.

Plenty of schools still use red ink for marking/highlighting work/commenting.

C'mon now people, shape up.

 

[HerbertTheHamster]

1:03 AM on 26th December 2008

yeah no.

I've noticed no lack of red ink in the last 3 years.

 

[Amphoteric]

hahaha, You used The Daily Mail as a source.

I don't believe ANYTHING they say.

Unless it was written by the Guardian, the BBC or the independant I'll call bullshit.

 

[Treblaine]

They say the red ink is "demoralizing to students" and "making them do worse in school."

Red ink doesn't MAKE them do badly.

It is BECAUSE they do badly that they get red marks!!

Those red marks are a student's best friend, they WILL NOT HAVE THEM IN REAL LIFE! When they send a letter or email requesting business, employment or services, they WILL be judged on poor grammar and incorrect homophones (which spellcheck CANNOT catch) then they won't get a response detailing the parts of poor grammar that caused them to lose confidence. They will just be ignored. You can end up having the situation where foreign students who don't even speak english as a first language are more employable as they can actually write english legibly and clearly.

However I still have some hope, for one factor:

Grammar nazis

I'd like to thank them, all those trollish dickheads who hounded my every post, pointing out the "your" and "you're" distinctions "Its" and "It's", my grammar has improved marked far better than when I finished studying English in School as a specific subject (at around age 16). The problem is not everywhere on the internet are the grammar nazis able to enforce literacy through ridicule, far too many places seem to relish lazy and idiotic spelling.

Back on topic: it is easy to ban stuff that you think is ineffective, but that is lazy and the route to disaster.

What SHOULD be done instead of draconian ban, is REPLACE "red marking" with a more effective teaching mechanism, so effective that there would be no need to specifically ban red marking as everyone would realise how inferior it is. But I don't see how this edict actually gets a better deal for students in GETTING AND EDUCATION! Far more in just taking the path of least resistance.

Shit like this makes me reconsider the merit of home schooling.