Schools begin banning teachers from using red ink

[estoria-etnia]

I am currently slamming my head into a wall.

 

[JasonKaotic]

...Seriously? For 15 years in a row (is it 15? Something like that) average GCSE results have been better than they were the previous year. Therefore we need to stop teachers from making students do badly.
And also, the colour red is intimidating to the students' fragile minds.
Nice logic.

 

[Mr Fixit]

If i were a teacher, which thankfully, for the childrens benifit, i am not, I would not only use red ink for EVERYTHING but i would put large angry faces on the papers of any student that failed. I'm an ass & i know it. Children should be very clearly told what mistakes were made & told how to fix them. Stop trying to protect children from the big bad world & teach them how to deal with it. Yeah thats about it, all this PC bull is just annoying.

 

[4173]

Edit: Also, it's clearly not holding you to a standard you can't achieve. A paper with absolutely no marks is perfect; there is no such thing as a perfect paper. What you need to aim for is a passing grade, preferably the highest passing grade you can reasonably get. You don't need to aim for perfection, but you do need to understand that if you don't do your work perfectly, it will have marks on it. That's going to be true no matter what color of ink is used. Don't think of it as holding you to a standard where you're expected to be perfect; think of it as a standard where perfect is the ideal, and you want to get as close to it as possible, but it's not the end of the world if you don't hit it.

And as soon as someone tells me what reasonable is, or what possible means. Seriously, did you ever have a teacher tell you, "eh, you did good enough?"

Edit Edit: And your last line is particularly telling. You do not have to memorize the entire text book to avoid failure. You need to get better than 60% of the questions right, at least with the system we use in the US. Besides, a properly written test won't be picking out obscure facts from the text book; it's going to be based around main ideas, things that are repeated constantly, titles, and things that are in bold print. If you're getting random questions about things neither the text nor the instruction stressed, you've got a teacher who doesn't know how to write tests. Otherwise, you probably don't know how to properly read a text book to get the information that is most likely to be on a test; there's a definite pattern to it. I'm not saying that to demean you, I'm just pointing out where a likely flaw in your study habits. If it sounds like what I'm saying applies to you, see about getting some tutoring. There's absolutely nothing wrong with asking for help.

Actually, I should refine that a little bit. Once one reaches a certain standard, then one will never hear "good enough" again. Let's say I get a 92% on the first assignment, I've just set a standard. No one will tell me that 80% is good enough. Then I'm left guessing* what amount of time and effort will replicate that 92% when we move to the next topic.

I realize this represents to some extent (big or small) a reflection of my personality and experiences as opposed to what we would want to call typical. At the same time, I can't be the only one who thought this way either. It took me years before I bought into the idea that perfect isn't the standard, the goal, and I still have to remind myself that before every paper or test.

I'm probably switching tenses something fierce. The more extreme statements are how I thought in grade school. I have curtailed it somewhat today.

*and I really do mean guessing

 

[Seventh Actuality]

The Daily Mail: Where every day is slow news day!

 

[jpoon]

My god, I hate political correctness.

 

[AndrewC]

Um, the article is 3 years old.

Plenty of schools still use red ink for marking/highlighting work/commenting.

C'mon now people, shape up.

 

[HerbertTheHamster]

1:03 AM on 26th December 2008

yeah no.

I've noticed no lack of red ink in the last 3 years.

 

[Amphoteric]

hahaha, You used The Daily Mail as a source.

I don't believe ANYTHING they say.

Unless it was written by the Guardian, the BBC or the independant I'll call bullshit.

 

[Treblaine]

They say the red ink is "demoralizing to students" and "making them do worse in school."

Red ink doesn't MAKE them do badly.

It is BECAUSE they do badly that they get red marks!!

Those red marks are a student's best friend, they WILL NOT HAVE THEM IN REAL LIFE! When they send a letter or email requesting business, employment or services, they WILL be judged on poor grammar and incorrect homophones (which spellcheck CANNOT catch) then they won't get a response detailing the parts of poor grammar that caused them to lose confidence. They will just be ignored. You can end up having the situation where foreign students who don't even speak english as a first language are more employable as they can actually write english legibly and clearly.

However I still have some hope, for one factor:

Grammar nazis

I'd like to thank them, all those trollish dickheads who hounded my every post, pointing out the "your" and "you're" distinctions "Its" and "It's", my grammar has improved marked far better than when I finished studying English in School as a specific subject (at around age 16). The problem is not everywhere on the internet are the grammar nazis able to enforce literacy through ridicule, far too many places seem to relish lazy and idiotic spelling.

Back on topic: it is easy to ban stuff that you think is ineffective, but that is lazy and the route to disaster.

What SHOULD be done instead of draconian ban, is REPLACE "red marking" with a more effective teaching mechanism, so effective that there would be no need to specifically ban red marking as everyone would realise how inferior it is. But I don't see how this edict actually gets a better deal for students in GETTING AND EDUCATION! Far more in just taking the path of least resistance.

Shit like this makes me reconsider the merit of home schooling.

 

[Owyn_Merrilin]

Edit: Also, it's clearly not holding you to a standard you can't achieve. A paper with absolutely no marks is perfect; there is no such thing as a perfect paper. What you need to aim for is a passing grade, preferably the highest passing grade you can reasonably get. You don't need to aim for perfection, but you do need to understand that if you don't do your work perfectly, it will have marks on it. That's going to be true no matter what color of ink is used. Don't think of it as holding you to a standard where you're expected to be perfect; think of it as a standard where perfect is the ideal, and you want to get as close to it as possible, but it's not the end of the world if you don't hit it.

And as soon as someone tells me what reasonable is, or what possible means. Seriously, did you ever have a teacher tell you, "eh, you did good enough?"

Edit Edit: And your last line is particularly telling. You do not have to memorize the entire text book to avoid failure. You need to get better than 60% of the questions right, at least with the system we use in the US. Besides, a properly written test won't be picking out obscure facts from the text book; it's going to be based around main ideas, things that are repeated constantly, titles, and things that are in bold print. If you're getting random questions about things neither the text nor the instruction stressed, you've got a teacher who doesn't know how to write tests. Otherwise, you probably don't know how to properly read a text book to get the information that is most likely to be on a test; there's a definite pattern to it. I'm not saying that to demean you, I'm just pointing out where a likely flaw in your study habits. If it sounds like what I'm saying applies to you, see about getting some tutoring. There's absolutely nothing wrong with asking for help.

Actually, I should refine that a little bit. Once one reaches a certain standard, then one will never hear "good enough" again. Let's say I get a 92% on the first assignment, I've just set a standard. No one will tell me that 80% is good enough. Then I'm left guessing* what amount of time and effort will replicate that 92% when we move to the next topic.

I realize this represents to some extent (big or small) a reflection of my personality and experiences as opposed to what we would want to call typical. At the same time, I can't be the only one who thought this way either. It took me years before I bought into the idea that perfect isn't the standard, the goal, and I still have to remind myself that before every paper or test.

I'm probably switching tenses something fierce. The more extreme statements are how I thought in grade school. I have curtailed it somewhat today.

*and I really do mean guessing

Well, in that case, there's two things you need to understand: for one thing, that standard of "your best" that you tell yourself you set only applies to the specific material that you were covering when you did it; on one unit, your best might be an 80. On another, the material might really click with you, and you might get a 90 or even 100. On yet another assignment, the teacher may as well be speaking moon language for all that particular section makes sense to you, and your best might be a 70 -- or even lower. "Your best" isn't a number; it's an amount of effort.

The second thing is that at some point, one of your teachers really should have explained this to you -- not in a way that discourages you from shooting for perfection, but in a way that encourages you that it's not necessarily a bad thing if you don't quite hit that target. For an example, look at the NRA B-27 target that law enforcement agencies use for handgun training:

Now, looking at the circles, you'd think you'd be aiming for the big X in the middle, and that you'd lose points if you wound up outside it. However, in an actual law enforcement test, any hit from the 8 ring down to the bullseye counts for full marks. You still want to aim for the red[footnote]There's a variation of this target that has the bullseye area colored red. I didn't notice when I posted the pic, but this is the version where it's all black and white[/footnote] X, but it's not the end of the world if you don't actually hit that particular spot.

Am I making sense?

 

[Robert Ewing]

Sure it changes nothing. But why even ban red ink? Does it signify blood too much? So it traumatizes children? Pff.

 

[Belaam]

As a teacher, they have recommended that we don't use red ink to grade for years now.

I kinda roll my eyes a little, but on the off chance that it does actually make a difference, tend to avoid red when grading papers.

I don't think it really matters if I write, "You need to stay in third person and provide proper citation here." in red, green, purple, or hot pink. But if it actually means even 1% of my students are more likely to stay in third person and cite their sources, I'm down.

 

[x EvilErmine x]

It's at times like this I wish I had the "I don't want to live on this planet anymore" image.

Here you go

As for my contribution

I've herd about this before but I seriously doubt that it's really as demoralising as they make it out to be, I mean ask your self why they chose red in the first place? well that's because it's easy to see! when your learning something it's as important to be able to identify where you have gone wrong as well as what you have got right. Honestly some people *sigh*.

 

[SFR]

Well, red IS a psychologically aggressive colour. We're trained to consider it alarming, so this makes as much sense as not letting teachers swear at students who misbehave.

Outright banning seems a bit...overboard, but it's probably best that red ink be discouraged. Green would be a good alternative.

There's definitely some truth to what you say. Green seems like the best alternative for several reasons: 1) it's easily visible, 2) very few people write in green ink, 3) it's not aggressive or negative (which blue could be mistaken for).

Banning it is idiotic, but the promotion of using other colors may actually help those students who see the red and automatically think it means they can't do better. Perhaps to remedy this entirely teachers should pick a random ink from an assortment of colors when correcting.

Or maybe they can just get over it.

 

[Twilight_guy]

Sadly because red ink is does not have some pretty inherently linked to correcting incorrect work, its only a default because of cultural standards and can easily be replaced. That's right, everyone's papers will now bleed blue ink and your silly law solved nothing.

 

[Torrasque]

Well... I guess I can see their point, since red actually does have a negative connotation.
In games, the bad guys are red, damage is displayed as red, "GAME OVER" is displayed in red, and many many other examples.
Obviously not all the time, but the examples are still there.

Like I said, I get their point, but they are going about it the wrong way. Instead of using red pens to mark mistakes, they're going to use what then? Green pens? Orange pens? So instead of a pen colour universally accepted as "this is wrong", they are going to use an acceptable colour instead?
I can just see the students getting their papers back now, and be "oh great! I got so many parts of my paper circled in green! I did so good on those pa-... wait... I got marks taken off... does that mean green is bad now?!" *looks outside to green field* "FUCK MY LIFE!!!!"

This is like changing the rag-doll animation your Spartan does in Halo when you die, with a burst of flowers and every enemy waving goodbye to your Spartan as it goes in the corner for a time out, before respawning coming back to play for another try at getting past that part.

 

[4173]

Well, in that case, there's two things you need to understand: for one thing, that standard of "your best" that you tell yourself you set only applies to the specific material that you were covering when you did it; on one unit, your best might be an 80. On another, the material might really click with you, and you might get a 90 or even 100. On yet another assignment, the teacher may as well be speaking moon language for all that particular section makes sense to you, and your best might be a 70 -- or even lower. "Your best" isn't a number; it's an amount of effort.

Effort is just a proxy for grades. Working hard and still doing poorly may be admirable in a sense, but not desired. And even if we judge by effort, no one tells you what the right amount of effort is.

Since individual questions could be right/wrong, I wanted the big picture to be as clear.

I'm not arguing with you. I'm able to handle the situation much better now, but it never feels completely natural - I always need to remind myself how to think about the situation in a healthy manner.

 

[Zykon TheLich]

I wish I was kidding about this, but some schools in the U.K. have actually prohibited teachers from using red ink pens when correcting student assignments. They say the red ink is "demoralizing to students" and "making them do worse in school." Are you freaking kidding me?! Red ink makes sense to me because then you can actually see where the mistakes and markings are so you know where to fix mistakes! People need to stop being so freaking sensitive about everything. Coddling your kids all the way through school isn't going to do shit for them. If they're doing bad then they're doing bad and you're not helping them by making it easier for them to handle.

Here's the link if anyone wants to read the article to make sure I'm not bullshitting...
http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-1101790/Teachers-banned-using-confrontational-red-ink-case-upsets-children.html

Why the hell are you referencing a 3 year old Daily Fail article, it is pretty much total bullshit...oh yeah, because you read Cracked.

http://www.cracked.com/article_19441_5-things-our-kids-wont-have-in-school_p2.html

Fuck me, some schools in America have actually banned teachers from failing students, they say it "makes students feel bad". Are you fucking kidding me?! Failing students makes sense to me because it lets them know they don't know shit and should start doing some studying. People need to stop being so sensitive about everything...I will stop now, you get what I'm saying.

OT: While it is kinda pointless it's hardly something to spit the dummy over. Not using red doesn't equal coddling. I can still write "you are a fucking failure that will never amount to anything you little retard" in green.

 

[Limie]

Woopdi-fucking-doo. If they think it might benefit some students, go for it. It might work, it might not, but it's ink. It is as low risk as can be.

I wish I was kidding about this, but some schools in the U.K. have actually prohibited teachers from using red ink pens when correcting student assignments. They say the red ink is "demoralizing to students" and "making them do worse in school." Are you freaking kidding me?! Red ink makes sense to me because then you can actually see where the mistakes and markings are so you know where to fix mistakes! People need to stop being so freaking sensitive about everything. Coddling your kids all the way through school isn't going to do shit for them. If they're doing bad then they're doing bad and you're not helping them by making it easier for them to handle.

Indeed, we should skip the ink entirely and just tattoo "big fucking failure" on their forehead. That'll learn them.

The point isn't to make them feel better about their mistakes. I don't think it is a stretch to say that a bunch of red marks send a different message (this is a pile of shit you ignorant asshat) than green (these areas need attention). By making the mistakes easier to handle, they can actually address them instead of viewing them as insurmountable and giving up.

This isn't about coddling, it is about creating an environment that enhances learning.

Hypothetically.

No. By doing this we are creating an environment where making mistakes is seen as bad, and something to be avoided, and even kept secret. That does not help learning. Kids need to learn that making mistakes is ok, as long as you fix it.

Red is clear. Red means stop, danger, or beef if it's Oxo. Green means continue, this is ok, or vegetable. I will not teach vegetables.

The failure is not in the colour of the pen, it's in the way making mistakes is interpreted. It's up to the teacher to reinforce the idea that making mistakes is ok, and that things can be fixed. Not that potential problems should be avoided or hidden.

Yes, I'm a teacher. Yes I use a red pen for marking. No, I won't stop using it... unless I happen to lose it somewhere.

You've just made my day!That's brilliant. My Mum's a teacher and that's why I know where you are coming from and she agrees with you (except she never runs out of red pens because there are about 100 in every room of her house). She's marking books in red as I write.
I always found red ink useful to quickly look for areas that needed to be corrected. I once recieved feedback for coursework in green and I couldn't find the corrections or read the comments. All in all it is just a bit of red ink.