Schools begin banning teachers from using red ink

[mental_looney]

That's just retarded, it's only red pen it just stands out is all, I hate the daily mail as well

 

[GrizzlerBorno]

If these kids are crying over red ink, they're very likely going to turn out to be worthless man-children. You coddle something and it expects to be coddled. You can't get anywhere in life like that, unless you're incredibly lucky.

What I really just disagree with you on is the degree to which you don't think this is a big deal or is not overboard. As someone who had to teach a few semesters of basic composition courses in college for his degree, I know that you're obligated to teach your students right from wrong in order to give them a baseline of correct writing behaviors and styles that help them survive more complex paper assignments. Using color as a means to coddle students into being soothed about what was not done right is doing them a disservice.

I'm glad you have an opinion based purely on your own misguided ideals of what helps kids to learn better.

But I never said anything about coddling. Coddling is counter-productive of course. It spawns entitled dipshits, I agree......what does that have to do with red ink? You can critique someone's essay with any color in the rainbow/sharpie spectrum. The benefit of not using red, imo, is that it doesn't seem like every word you're saying is a death threat to the students' loved ones.

Look, I'm for this because as a good, but rebellious student, I know I've waved off red-marked criticism tons of times, because I thought of it as "Mr.Senile's bullshit technicalities that I don't want to pay attention to". Was it right to do that? Absolutely not. Am I the only one who does do that? NO fucking Way! Students like me take constructive criticism MUCH better, when the teacher isn't hiding behind a color-coded veneer of arbitrary power and feelings of supremacy. I take constructive criticism from teachers who tell me, through their markings: "I am not on a higher level of existence, that you cannot hope to grasp with your inferior mind. I am, rather, a human being, just like you. However I am Waaay more experienced than you are on this subject; so let me tell you where and how you are wrong, so you can get better at it."

Call me naive for looking at this from the perspective of the group of people it's supposed to help. I have no other perspective. If that makes me some kind of ignorant ass to you.....well then you're probably one of the educators who are, imo, part of the problem. I mean no disrespect; but I always hated teachers like you, with your sense of superiority and egotism over students. I would mock you from the back of the class on the few days I would show up, and then prevent you from failing me by getting a 97% on the term exam (without cheating) JUST to spite you. I literally did just that with a few of my old teachers, I can do it with you.

 

[ThunderCavalier]

On another note, we have also stopped issuing grades below "A" and have stopped all types of competition between students, be them sports or ordinary arguments or fights.

We wouldn't want the students to lose these arguments or get low grades and lose self-esteem, now would we?

 

[GideonB]

I KNEW my drawing would come in handy for a thread like this!

Oh Kyubey. For once you're the voice of reason.

About two weeks ago I got a math test back. 76. He marked the SHIT out of it, and I saw every single thing I got wrong. I felt bad, but fortunately I'd done all my work, so I went to tutoring so I can qualify for a retest this Friday. He tells us to mark each others homework in red ink too. I'm pretty sure he does it so we can see our mistakes. He makes us write in pencil so we can fix our mistakes.

Seriously, Education system. Grow some balls. These kids can take a bad grade. I saw I guy get a 51 and he didn't freak out. I'm not sure about his parents though...

I can agree with this. Today we did a test on Operating Systems in College and most people failed, and there was red used (on the computer to show you the wrong answers) noone was demoralized or annoyed, just saying damn this was hard I gotta try better next time

So uhh what the fuck is with this stupid rule

Also lol at that drawing

 

[Kenjitsuka]

The ink is indeed red for reasons of being easy to spot, which is what you're supposed to do with corrections. Spot and fix mistakes, it's called learning for a reason...

The only way it can be demoralizing is when the teacher writes that you suck. And that's equally shitty in any colour ink!

 

[Owyn_Merrilin]

If these kids are crying over red ink, they're very likely going to turn out to be worthless man-children. You coddle something and it expects to be coddled. You can't get anywhere in life like that, unless you're incredibly lucky.

What I really just disagree with you on is the degree to which you don't think this is a big deal or is not overboard. As someone who had to teach a few semesters of basic composition courses in college for his degree, I know that you're obligated to teach your students right from wrong in order to give them a baseline of correct writing behaviors and styles that help them survive more complex paper assignments. Using color as a means to coddle students into being soothed about what was not done right is doing them a disservice.

I'm glad you have an opinion based purely on your own misguided ideals of what helps kids to learn better.

But I never said anything about coddling. Coddling is counter-productive of course. It spawns entitled dipshits, I agree......what does that have to do with red ink? You can critique someone's essay with any color in the rainbow/sharpie spectrum. The benefit of not using red, imo, is that it doesn't seem like every word you're saying is a death threat to the students' loved ones.

Look, I'm for this because as a good, but rebellious student, I know I've waved off red-marked criticism tons of times, because I thought of it as "Mr.Senile's bullshit technicalities that I don't want to pay attention to". Was it right to do that? Absolutely not. Am I the only one who does do that? NO fucking Way! Students like me take constructive criticism MUCH better, when the teacher isn't hiding behind a color-coded veneer of arbitrary power and feelings of supremacy. I take constructive criticism from teachers who tell me, through their markings: "I am not on a higher level of existence, that you cannot hope to grasp with your inferior mind. I am, rather, a human being, just like you. However I am Waaay more experienced than you are on this subject; so let me tell you where and how you are wrong, so you can get better at it."

Call me naive for looking at this from the perspective of the group of people it's supposed to help. I have no other perspective. If that makes me some kind of ignorant ass to you.....well then you're probably one of the educators who are, imo, part of the problem. I mean no disrespect; but I always hated teachers like you, with your sense of superiority and egotism over students. I would mock you from the back of the class on the few days I would show up, and then prevent you from failing me by getting a 97% on the term exam (without cheating) JUST to spite you. I literally did just that with a few of my old teachers, I can do it with you.

And you're going about it wrong by assuming that the red ink is a power play. It's a commonly available color that stands out against blue ink, black ink, and pencil. It means "you got this wrong, and I'm showing you so you can learn from the mistake." As for what you were saying earlier about a 500 year old system that exists to humiliate students, it's nothing of the sort. Old fashioned teaching techniques have been around for a long time for a reason; they work. All this focus on teachers being "learning facilitators" who are supposed to be equal to the students, instead of authority figures who have special knowledge to be passed on? That is a sign of the decline of the educational system. It's one thing for a teacher to admit that he or she doesn't know everything. It's something else entirely for the teacher to know nothing, or to know no more than the students do. There's a word for teachers like that: it's unqualified. As in "if you don't know this stuff, you are unqualified to teach this subject."

Now I know that sounds like it plays right into what you were saying about how teachers act like they know everything and you know nothing. But that's not how it works. A well qualified teacher is one who knows more about the subject they're teaching than the students. Their job is to impart that knowledge to the students. It's not a case of "I know more than you ever will." It's a case of "I know more than you do right now. Let's fix that."

 

[ThyReaper]

I had my Math Methods teacher once mark in Pink Gel.

Worst D+ I've ever had in my life. Well in that class, only time I got a D+ in anything lol.

 

[Furbyz]

You do all realize this is based on a legitimate study on the effects of color on the human psyche? It's the same reason mental wards are painted green. If you see red before a test, statistically speaking, you'll do worse on it. I could really care less what color people grade in.

Look, here's a study.

http://psp.sagepub.com/content/34/11/1530.short

Edit: Big fail on my part. Didn't realize you'd have to buy a membership to the site to read the full study. The abstract is still there though.

 

[Versuvius]

It's by the Daily Mail so it's probably bollocks.

 

[Brutal Peanut]

My Earth Science teacher always used green. It's a nice color, and also my favorite.

I pretty much just always believed most teachers used red to make their marks stand out, so no one was confused and you could easily identify the question you answered incorrectly. It never seemed like they were confirming their overall godlike teacher powers over the students by slashing away with red marker, or belittling them. Red is just the teachers mark.

Meh, as long as the next color they choose for kid-friendliness isn't confusing to anyone,... *[small]whispers: use green[/small]*

 

[Tiger Sora]

Political correctness gone mad I say, MAD!

And this isn't gona help kids any bit, they're feelings are still gona hurt wether that 20% is in red, black or blue ink.

 

[Anodos]

I wish I was kidding about this, but some schools in the U.K. have actually prohibited teachers from using red ink pens when correcting student assignments. They say the red ink is "demoralizing to students" and "making them do worse in school." Are you freaking kidding me?! Red ink makes sense to me because then you can actually see where the mistakes and markings are so you know where to fix mistakes! People need to stop being so freaking sensitive about everything. Coddling your kids all the way through school isn't going to do shit for them. If they're doing bad then they're doing bad and you're not helping them by making it easier for them to handle.

Here's the link if anyone wants to read the article to make sure I'm not bullshitting...
http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-1101790/Teachers-banned-using-confrontational-red-ink-case-upsets-children.html

Its agreeable, because the ENTIRE SCHOOL SYSTEM is messed up. The repetition and punishment system doesnt actually get better results.

 

[Stall]

According to my parents (both of whom are/were teachers for all of most of their professional careers), teachers in the US have generally been discouraged from using red ink to grade papers for some time now.

This isn't really a new or unusual practice. Why is everyone getting all mad about it? This isn't really "political correctness". You'd have to be half insane to believe this is "political correctness"... it's just not using an aggressive color like red to grade papers.

 

[Jakub324]

Loads of kids don't care about school anyway! Now, they'll just miss all the mistakes and go out for an early fag!
EDIT: If you're American, replace "fag" with "cigarette".

 

[Ledan]

Ah yes.....
If you want to see what happens when you coddle your kids and don't tell them when they are doing bad, look at the Swedish schoolsystem.
It's going down the drain. Seriously.
STOP WITH THE WHOLE "Hey. I have an idea, why don't we make it easier an easier for kids, so that they don't feel bad. Y'know, they are easily demoralized, and morale is what counts. Not knowledge or smarts. We shouldn't encourage them to do work, just smile and say "you are a good boy. Yes you are." even when they fail completely. Oh! and lets make it harder to fail, and turn a+ and b- into the same thing. That sounds like a great idea!" (dramatization)
It just makes it worse...... go do someting hard. Like the IB.

 

[Yosato]

Wait, what about for just general marking? I got my fair share of shit marks in school but I got just as many phrases and sums underlined or circled with a red pen saying 'Excellent!' beside it.

 

[4173]

So a pile of green would make a student more motivated? What a load of crap. The only reason red has negative connotations is because it has been used a long time for correcting mistakes, and thus the color in schoolwork is connected to bad work/mistakes.

When we do work correctly we are not challenged, if we are not challenged we do not evolve. Mistakes are a part of the learning experience, and are usually what we learn FROM. Red, green, purple pen...who the fuck cares?

No, it wouldn't make them more motivated. It is hypothesized to make them less un-motivated. And of course you're right, but changing the colour of pens is easier than changing an entire culture. I think mistakes are treated way more as fuck-ups than learning opportunities.

No. By doing this we are creating an environment where making mistakes is seen as bad, and something to be avoided, and even kept secret. That does not help learning. Kids need to learn that making mistakes is ok, as long as you fix it.

Red is clear. Red means stop, danger, or beef if it's Oxo. Green means continue, this is ok, or vegetable. I will not teach vegetables.

The failure is not in the colour of the pen, it's in the way making mistakes is interpreted. It's up to the teacher to reinforce the idea that making mistakes is ok, and that things can be fixed. Not that potential problems should be avoided or hidden.

Yes, I'm a teacher. Yes I use a red pen for marking. No, I won't stop using it... unless I happen to lose it somewhere.

I suspect that environment already exists. I certainly felt like it did. If I can use a personal anecdote hypothetical:

Let's say I study 5 hours for a math test and get 80%. I have no idea what would have happened if I studied more. Maybe after the 6th hour I would have got 84%. Maybe I could have studied for 12 hours and remained at 80%. So each mistake is bad, because it creates this situation of tension. Each mistake is an inadequacy I have no idea how to fix.

Maybe this is just a personal thing and I'm projecting it onto other students. And I understand the desire to push the students so they learn, investigate, think etc. But people kept telling me to do my best, but they never fucking told me what that was.

To wit if I thought I did my best, but there were mistakes, and I'm supposed to learn from those mistakes, by definition I didn't do my best.

But I never said anything about coddling. Coddling is counter-productive of course. It spawns entitled dipshits, I agree......what does that have to do with red ink? You can critique someone's essay with any color in the rainbow/sharpie spectrum. The benefit of not using red, imo, is that it doesn't seem like every word you're saying is a death threat to the students' loved ones.

Look, I'm for this because as a good, but rebellious student, I know I've waved off red-marked criticism tons of times, because I thought of it as "Mr.Senile's bullshit technicalities that I don't want to pay attention to". Was it right to do that? Absolutely not. Am I the only one who does do that? NO fucking Way! Students like me take constructive criticism MUCH better, when the teacher isn't hiding behind a color-coded veneer of arbitrary power and feelings of supremacy. I take constructive criticism from teachers who tell me, through their markings: "I am not on a higher level of existence, that you cannot hope to grasp with your inferior mind. I am, rather, a human being, just like you. However I am Waaay more experienced than you are on this subject; so let me tell you where and how you are wrong, so you can get better at it."

And you're going about it wrong by assuming that the red ink is a power play. It's a commonly available color that stands out against blue ink, black ink, and pencil. It means "you got this wrong, and I'm showing you so you can learn from the mistake." As for what you were saying earlier about a 500 year old system that exists to humiliate students, it's nothing of the sort. Old fashioned teaching techniques have been around for a long time for a reason; they work.

I have to say I frequently felt the same way. Every highlighted mistake was a big fucking sign saying "why don't you know everything" in flashing neon. It holds me to a standard I can never achieve. Even if I get 100% on a particular thing, I know it was partly luck - which questions were asked. Short of literally memorizing the entire textbook, I'm always failing.

 

[Zaik]

lol daily mail?

Don't they put out some fake story about stupid bs like this in schools every month or so?

 

[GiglameshSoulEater]

Its the daily mail.
Conclusion: it is bullshit.

 

[Owyn_Merrilin]

So a pile of green would make a student more motivated? What a load of crap. The only reason red has negative connotations is because it has been used a long time for correcting mistakes, and thus the color in schoolwork is connected to bad work/mistakes.

When we do work correctly we are not challenged, if we are not challenged we do not evolve. Mistakes are a part of the learning experience, and are usually what we learn FROM. Red, green, purple pen...who the fuck cares?

No, it wouldn't make them more motivated. It is hypothesized to make them less un-motivated. And of course you're right, but changing the colour of pens is easier than changing an entire culture. I think mistakes are treated way more as fuck-ups than learning opportunities.

No. By doing this we are creating an environment where making mistakes is seen as bad, and something to be avoided, and even kept secret. That does not help learning. Kids need to learn that making mistakes is ok, as long as you fix it.

Red is clear. Red means stop, danger, or beef if it's Oxo. Green means continue, this is ok, or vegetable. I will not teach vegetables.

The failure is not in the colour of the pen, it's in the way making mistakes is interpreted. It's up to the teacher to reinforce the idea that making mistakes is ok, and that things can be fixed. Not that potential problems should be avoided or hidden.

Yes, I'm a teacher. Yes I use a red pen for marking. No, I won't stop using it... unless I happen to lose it somewhere.

I suspect that environment already exists. I certainly felt like it did. If I can use a personal anecdote hypothetical:

Let's say I study 5 hours for a math test and get 80%. I have no idea what would have happened if I studied more. Maybe after the 6th hour I would have got 84%. Maybe I could have studied for 12 hours and remained at 80%. So each mistake is bad, because it creates this situation of tension. Each mistake is an inadequacy I have no idea how to fix.

Maybe this is just a personal thing and I'm projecting it onto other students. And I understand the desire to push the students so they learn, investigate, think etc. But people kept telling me to do my best, but they never fucking told me what that was.

To wit if I thought I did my best, but there were mistakes, and I'm supposed to learn from those mistakes, by definition I didn't do my best.

But I never said anything about coddling. Coddling is counter-productive of course. It spawns entitled dipshits, I agree......what does that have to do with red ink? You can critique someone's essay with any color in the rainbow/sharpie spectrum. The benefit of not using red, imo, is that it doesn't seem like every word you're saying is a death threat to the students' loved ones.

Look, I'm for this because as a good, but rebellious student, I know I've waved off red-marked criticism tons of times, because I thought of it as "Mr.Senile's bullshit technicalities that I don't want to pay attention to". Was it right to do that? Absolutely not. Am I the only one who does do that? NO fucking Way! Students like me take constructive criticism MUCH better, when the teacher isn't hiding behind a color-coded veneer of arbitrary power and feelings of supremacy. I take constructive criticism from teachers who tell me, through their markings: "I am not on a higher level of existence, that you cannot hope to grasp with your inferior mind. I am, rather, a human being, just like you. However I am Waaay more experienced than you are on this subject; so let me tell you where and how you are wrong, so you can get better at it."

And you're going about it wrong by assuming that the red ink is a power play. It's a commonly available color that stands out against blue ink, black ink, and pencil. It means "you got this wrong, and I'm showing you so you can learn from the mistake." As for what you were saying earlier about a 500 year old system that exists to humiliate students, it's nothing of the sort. Old fashioned teaching techniques have been around for a long time for a reason; they work.

I have to say I frequently felt the same way. Every highlighted mistake was a big fucking sign saying "why don't you know everything" in flashing neon. It holds me to a standard I can never achieve. Even if I get 100% on a particular thing, I know it was partly luck - which questions were asked. Short of literally memorizing the entire textbook, I'm always failing.

Let me put it this way: if you can't handle criticism and people pointing out when you're wrong, you aren't going to do well in the real world. It's something you have to learn at some point in your life. Of course, maybe it's my background as a musician talking. Musicians generally don't get nasty about mistakes, but they sure as hell let you know what mistakes you've made, where and when you made them, and how to fix them so you don't make them again. As a result, musicians have to have a thick enough skin to handle criticism -- if they don't have it and they can't get it, they really can't cut it as musicians, even at an amateur level. This is a good mindset to have no matter what material you're learning.

Edit: Also, it's clearly not holding you to a standard you can't achieve. A paper with absolutely no marks is perfect; there is no such thing as a perfect paper. What you need to aim for is a passing grade, preferably the highest passing grade you can reasonably get. You don't need to aim for perfection, but you do need to understand that if you don't do your work perfectly, it will have marks on it. That's going to be true no matter what color of ink is used. Don't think of it as holding you to a standard where you're expected to be perfect; think of it as a standard where perfect is the ideal, and you want to get as close to it as possible, but it's not the end of the world if you don't hit it.

Edit Edit: And your last line is particularly telling. You do not have to memorize the entire text book to avoid failure. You need to get better than 60% of the questions right, at least with the system we use in the US. Besides, a properly written test won't be picking out obscure facts from the text book; it's going to be based around main ideas, things that are repeated constantly, titles, and things that are in bold print. If you're getting random questions about things neither the text nor the instruction stressed, you've got a teacher who doesn't know how to write tests. Otherwise, you probably don't know how to properly read a text book to get the information that is most likely to be on a test; there's a definite pattern to it. I'm not saying that to demean you, I'm just pointing out where a likely flaw in your study habits. If it sounds like what I'm saying applies to you, see about getting some tutoring. There's absolutely nothing wrong with asking for help.

Final edit: I'm sorry about all of these edits. I'm a bit sleep deprived, and I have a tendency to respond to stuff piecemeal when I'm in that state. I noticed what you said about how, if you have things you need to improve after doing your best, you aren't doing your best. That is looking at it all wrong. For most people, even when they do things the absolute best way they can, they don't generally get it perfect on the first try. Especially when you're dealing with something like math, where you're learning a skill, not just cramming your head full of knowledge, you aren't always going to fully grasp a concept by the time your first test on it comes up. That test gives you a chance to find out what you don't understand, and fix it further down the road. The only way what you described wouldn't be doing your best is if you decided not to go back and learn from your mistakes. Mistakes happen; doing our best isn't about not making them at all, it's about learning why we made them, and trying not to make the same mistake twice.