Schools begin banning teachers from using red ink

[Owyn_Merrilin]

Edit: Also, it's clearly not holding you to a standard you can't achieve. A paper with absolutely no marks is perfect; there is no such thing as a perfect paper. What you need to aim for is a passing grade, preferably the highest passing grade you can reasonably get. You don't need to aim for perfection, but you do need to understand that if you don't do your work perfectly, it will have marks on it. That's going to be true no matter what color of ink is used. Don't think of it as holding you to a standard where you're expected to be perfect; think of it as a standard where perfect is the ideal, and you want to get as close to it as possible, but it's not the end of the world if you don't hit it.

And as soon as someone tells me what reasonable is, or what possible means. Seriously, did you ever have a teacher tell you, "eh, you did good enough?"

Edit Edit: And your last line is particularly telling. You do not have to memorize the entire text book to avoid failure. You need to get better than 60% of the questions right, at least with the system we use in the US. Besides, a properly written test won't be picking out obscure facts from the text book; it's going to be based around main ideas, things that are repeated constantly, titles, and things that are in bold print. If you're getting random questions about things neither the text nor the instruction stressed, you've got a teacher who doesn't know how to write tests. Otherwise, you probably don't know how to properly read a text book to get the information that is most likely to be on a test; there's a definite pattern to it. I'm not saying that to demean you, I'm just pointing out where a likely flaw in your study habits. If it sounds like what I'm saying applies to you, see about getting some tutoring. There's absolutely nothing wrong with asking for help.

Actually, I should refine that a little bit. Once one reaches a certain standard, then one will never hear "good enough" again. Let's say I get a 92% on the first assignment, I've just set a standard. No one will tell me that 80% is good enough. Then I'm left guessing* what amount of time and effort will replicate that 92% when we move to the next topic.

I realize this represents to some extent (big or small) a reflection of my personality and experiences as opposed to what we would want to call typical. At the same time, I can't be the only one who thought this way either. It took me years before I bought into the idea that perfect isn't the standard, the goal, and I still have to remind myself that before every paper or test.

I'm probably switching tenses something fierce. The more extreme statements are how I thought in grade school. I have curtailed it somewhat today.

*and I really do mean guessing

Well, in that case, there's two things you need to understand: for one thing, that standard of "your best" that you tell yourself you set only applies to the specific material that you were covering when you did it; on one unit, your best might be an 80. On another, the material might really click with you, and you might get a 90 or even 100. On yet another assignment, the teacher may as well be speaking moon language for all that particular section makes sense to you, and your best might be a 70 -- or even lower. "Your best" isn't a number; it's an amount of effort.

The second thing is that at some point, one of your teachers really should have explained this to you -- not in a way that discourages you from shooting for perfection, but in a way that encourages you that it's not necessarily a bad thing if you don't quite hit that target. For an example, look at the NRA B-27 target that law enforcement agencies use for handgun training:

Now, looking at the circles, you'd think you'd be aiming for the big X in the middle, and that you'd lose points if you wound up outside it. However, in an actual law enforcement test, any hit from the 8 ring down to the bullseye counts for full marks. You still want to aim for the red[footnote]There's a variation of this target that has the bullseye area colored red. I didn't notice when I posted the pic, but this is the version where it's all black and white[/footnote] X, but it's not the end of the world if you don't actually hit that particular spot.

Am I making sense?

 

[Robert Ewing]

Sure it changes nothing. But why even ban red ink? Does it signify blood too much? So it traumatizes children? Pff.

 

[Belaam]

As a teacher, they have recommended that we don't use red ink to grade for years now.

I kinda roll my eyes a little, but on the off chance that it does actually make a difference, tend to avoid red when grading papers.

I don't think it really matters if I write, "You need to stay in third person and provide proper citation here." in red, green, purple, or hot pink. But if it actually means even 1% of my students are more likely to stay in third person and cite their sources, I'm down.

 

[x EvilErmine x]

It's at times like this I wish I had the "I don't want to live on this planet anymore" image.

Here you go

As for my contribution

I've herd about this before but I seriously doubt that it's really as demoralising as they make it out to be, I mean ask your self why they chose red in the first place? well that's because it's easy to see! when your learning something it's as important to be able to identify where you have gone wrong as well as what you have got right. Honestly some people *sigh*.

 

[SFR]

Well, red IS a psychologically aggressive colour. We're trained to consider it alarming, so this makes as much sense as not letting teachers swear at students who misbehave.

Outright banning seems a bit...overboard, but it's probably best that red ink be discouraged. Green would be a good alternative.

There's definitely some truth to what you say. Green seems like the best alternative for several reasons: 1) it's easily visible, 2) very few people write in green ink, 3) it's not aggressive or negative (which blue could be mistaken for).

Banning it is idiotic, but the promotion of using other colors may actually help those students who see the red and automatically think it means they can't do better. Perhaps to remedy this entirely teachers should pick a random ink from an assortment of colors when correcting.

Or maybe they can just get over it.

 

[Twilight_guy]

Sadly because red ink is does not have some pretty inherently linked to correcting incorrect work, its only a default because of cultural standards and can easily be replaced. That's right, everyone's papers will now bleed blue ink and your silly law solved nothing.

 

[Torrasque]

Well... I guess I can see their point, since red actually does have a negative connotation.
In games, the bad guys are red, damage is displayed as red, "GAME OVER" is displayed in red, and many many other examples.
Obviously not all the time, but the examples are still there.

Like I said, I get their point, but they are going about it the wrong way. Instead of using red pens to mark mistakes, they're going to use what then? Green pens? Orange pens? So instead of a pen colour universally accepted as "this is wrong", they are going to use an acceptable colour instead?
I can just see the students getting their papers back now, and be "oh great! I got so many parts of my paper circled in green! I did so good on those pa-... wait... I got marks taken off... does that mean green is bad now?!" *looks outside to green field* "FUCK MY LIFE!!!!"

This is like changing the rag-doll animation your Spartan does in Halo when you die, with a burst of flowers and every enemy waving goodbye to your Spartan as it goes in the corner for a time out, before respawning coming back to play for another try at getting past that part.

 

[4173]

Well, in that case, there's two things you need to understand: for one thing, that standard of "your best" that you tell yourself you set only applies to the specific material that you were covering when you did it; on one unit, your best might be an 80. On another, the material might really click with you, and you might get a 90 or even 100. On yet another assignment, the teacher may as well be speaking moon language for all that particular section makes sense to you, and your best might be a 70 -- or even lower. "Your best" isn't a number; it's an amount of effort.

Effort is just a proxy for grades. Working hard and still doing poorly may be admirable in a sense, but not desired. And even if we judge by effort, no one tells you what the right amount of effort is.

Since individual questions could be right/wrong, I wanted the big picture to be as clear.

I'm not arguing with you. I'm able to handle the situation much better now, but it never feels completely natural - I always need to remind myself how to think about the situation in a healthy manner.

 

[Zykon TheLich]

I wish I was kidding about this, but some schools in the U.K. have actually prohibited teachers from using red ink pens when correcting student assignments. They say the red ink is "demoralizing to students" and "making them do worse in school." Are you freaking kidding me?! Red ink makes sense to me because then you can actually see where the mistakes and markings are so you know where to fix mistakes! People need to stop being so freaking sensitive about everything. Coddling your kids all the way through school isn't going to do shit for them. If they're doing bad then they're doing bad and you're not helping them by making it easier for them to handle.

Here's the link if anyone wants to read the article to make sure I'm not bullshitting...
http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-1101790/Teachers-banned-using-confrontational-red-ink-case-upsets-children.html

Why the hell are you referencing a 3 year old Daily Fail article, it is pretty much total bullshit...oh yeah, because you read Cracked.

http://www.cracked.com/article_19441_5-things-our-kids-wont-have-in-school_p2.html

Fuck me, some schools in America have actually banned teachers from failing students, they say it "makes students feel bad". Are you fucking kidding me?! Failing students makes sense to me because it lets them know they don't know shit and should start doing some studying. People need to stop being so sensitive about everything...I will stop now, you get what I'm saying.

OT: While it is kinda pointless it's hardly something to spit the dummy over. Not using red doesn't equal coddling. I can still write "you are a fucking failure that will never amount to anything you little retard" in green.

 

[Limie]

Woopdi-fucking-doo. If they think it might benefit some students, go for it. It might work, it might not, but it's ink. It is as low risk as can be.

I wish I was kidding about this, but some schools in the U.K. have actually prohibited teachers from using red ink pens when correcting student assignments. They say the red ink is "demoralizing to students" and "making them do worse in school." Are you freaking kidding me?! Red ink makes sense to me because then you can actually see where the mistakes and markings are so you know where to fix mistakes! People need to stop being so freaking sensitive about everything. Coddling your kids all the way through school isn't going to do shit for them. If they're doing bad then they're doing bad and you're not helping them by making it easier for them to handle.

Indeed, we should skip the ink entirely and just tattoo "big fucking failure" on their forehead. That'll learn them.

The point isn't to make them feel better about their mistakes. I don't think it is a stretch to say that a bunch of red marks send a different message (this is a pile of shit you ignorant asshat) than green (these areas need attention). By making the mistakes easier to handle, they can actually address them instead of viewing them as insurmountable and giving up.

This isn't about coddling, it is about creating an environment that enhances learning.

Hypothetically.

No. By doing this we are creating an environment where making mistakes is seen as bad, and something to be avoided, and even kept secret. That does not help learning. Kids need to learn that making mistakes is ok, as long as you fix it.

Red is clear. Red means stop, danger, or beef if it's Oxo. Green means continue, this is ok, or vegetable. I will not teach vegetables.

The failure is not in the colour of the pen, it's in the way making mistakes is interpreted. It's up to the teacher to reinforce the idea that making mistakes is ok, and that things can be fixed. Not that potential problems should be avoided or hidden.

Yes, I'm a teacher. Yes I use a red pen for marking. No, I won't stop using it... unless I happen to lose it somewhere.

You've just made my day!That's brilliant. My Mum's a teacher and that's why I know where you are coming from and she agrees with you (except she never runs out of red pens because there are about 100 in every room of her house). She's marking books in red as I write.
I always found red ink useful to quickly look for areas that needed to be corrected. I once recieved feedback for coursework in green and I couldn't find the corrections or read the comments. All in all it is just a bit of red ink.

 

[Xyliss]

Woopdi-fucking-doo. If they think it might benefit some students, go for it. It might work, it might not, but it's ink. It is as low risk as can be.

I wish I was kidding about this, but some schools in the U.K. have actually prohibited teachers from using red ink pens when correcting student assignments. They say the red ink is "demoralizing to students" and "making them do worse in school." Are you freaking kidding me?! Red ink makes sense to me because then you can actually see where the mistakes and markings are so you know where to fix mistakes! People need to stop being so freaking sensitive about everything. Coddling your kids all the way through school isn't going to do shit for them. If they're doing bad then they're doing bad and you're not helping them by making it easier for them to handle.

Indeed, we should skip the ink entirely and just tattoo "big fucking failure" on their forehead. That'll learn them.

The point isn't to make them feel better about their mistakes. I don't think it is a stretch to say that a bunch of red marks send a different message (this is a pile of shit you ignorant asshat) than green (these areas need attention). By making the mistakes easier to handle, they can actually address them instead of viewing them as insurmountable and giving up.

This isn't about coddling, it is about creating an environment that enhances learning.

Hypothetically.

No. By doing this we are creating an environment where making mistakes is seen as bad, and something to be avoided, and even kept secret. That does not help learning. Kids need to learn that making mistakes is ok, as long as you fix it.

Red is clear. Red means stop, danger, or beef if it's Oxo. Green means continue, this is ok, or vegetable. I will not teach vegetables.

The failure is not in the colour of the pen, it's in the way making mistakes is interpreted. It's up to the teacher to reinforce the idea that making mistakes is ok, and that things can be fixed. Not that potential problems should be avoided or hidden.

Yes, I'm a teacher. Yes I use a red pen for marking. No, I won't stop using it... unless I happen to lose it somewhere.

This! I, too, am a teacher and believe that pupils need to make mistakes to learn from them. Otherwise they may not know where they are going wrong

 

[ReservoirAngel]

*sees Daily Mail in url link*

Well now I can probably safely assume that it was merely mentioned and they've just gone ahead and reported it like it's going to be brutally enforced.

 

[Android2137]

Oh great. What's next? "We're banning the colors pink and blue from the school because it reinforces gender stereotypes"?

 

[Litchhunter]

AS a student, this is just damn stupid.
My current math teacher basically just SHOVES our failures in our faces, and you know what?
It makes us better! It spurs us on to prove ourselves, and it WORKS.
I personally find that the teachers that baby students don't get as far, because it just doesn't sink in.
So dear UK school system- The people you are trying to help think you need to stop. That says something.

 

[Evil Top Hat]

Here's the link if anyone wants to read the article to make sure I'm not bullshitting...
http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-1101790/Teachers-banned-using-confrontational-red-ink-case-upsets-children.html

The daily mail are like the english equivallent of fox news, they scaremonger and exagerrate to outrage people, rather than actually give news. Take everything you hear from the daily mail with about 4 shipping containers full of salt.

If two schools banned the use of red ink the daily mail are the kind of paper that would describe it as a "stupidity epicdemic" thats corrupting our country, our children and causing house prices to rise. They'd probably throw in a quick racist remark about how the immigrants are taking our jobs for good measure.

 

[Treblaine]

Also, red is arbitrarily a "bad" colour. It is only bad for it's ASSOCIATION with poor literacy, the shame of being a dunce.

red can be positive: such as Red letter day, Red Sky at Night, and association between Red and heroic sacrifice. The point is red is not a colour unique for its negativity, but more for it's PROMINENCE! In football, the Red Card is made red because red is a very eye catching colour, it is imperative, it is more imperative for a traffic light in it's function of stopping, greem merely confirms "definitely not red" you don't need green-lights every 50 yards along a road to keep travelling ahead.

Red is an eye catching colour in so many ways and really marks should be on paper in red as THAT IS A TEACHER'S JOB! Schools are not supposed be to glorified babysitting centres, the kids are supposed to be learning SOMETHING! You can't just congratulate them on every single proper use of grammar and point out errors by failing to congratulate.

The emphasis needs to be that these red marks are the best thing a child can get, a child's privilege in preparation for life!

 

[Xanadu84]

Okay, you want to ban red ink? You know what? Ill bite. I can see red ink being demoralizing, and a tiny, tiny change like using a different pen might make a small difference in the positive. So Ill listen to the argument. Show me the data that suggests that not using red ink will encourage students. Oh. There's no data at all. Well how about you come back when your not just pulling stuff out of your ass.

In the interest of fairness, I think that people getting super-offended should get some opposing data before they casually dismiss this idea. Maybe theres something to it. But there should be some evidence first.

 

[spartandude]

You do all realize this is based on a legitimate study on the effects of color on the human psyche? It's the same reason mental wards are painted green. If you see red before a test, statistically speaking, you'll do worse on it. I could really care less what color people grade in.

Look, here's a study.

http://psp.sagepub.com/content/34/11/1530.short

Edit: Big fail on my part. Didn't realize you'd have to buy a membership to the site to read the full study. The abstract is still there though.

exactly, so when i want my essay marked i want the mistakes in red to show me my mistakes so i can focus on them and know i need to improve them

if its green it wouldnt be as alarming and i might not be bothered to fix them

 

[NightmareWarden]

I think that this goes along with people who read WAY to deep into things. Can I believe that factors in school can cause a student to continue to spiral downward and get worse grades? Yes. Can I believe that a teacher's actions can cause this? Yes. Does a red failing grade cause more psychological problems than a (insert pen color here) grade? No. I don't believe that something as meaningless as color can cause such a large difference. Please don't take that statement out of context.