Schools begin banning teachers from using red ink

[Xyliss]

Woopdi-fucking-doo. If they think it might benefit some students, go for it. It might work, it might not, but it's ink. It is as low risk as can be.

I wish I was kidding about this, but some schools in the U.K. have actually prohibited teachers from using red ink pens when correcting student assignments. They say the red ink is "demoralizing to students" and "making them do worse in school." Are you freaking kidding me?! Red ink makes sense to me because then you can actually see where the mistakes and markings are so you know where to fix mistakes! People need to stop being so freaking sensitive about everything. Coddling your kids all the way through school isn't going to do shit for them. If they're doing bad then they're doing bad and you're not helping them by making it easier for them to handle.

Indeed, we should skip the ink entirely and just tattoo "big fucking failure" on their forehead. That'll learn them.

The point isn't to make them feel better about their mistakes. I don't think it is a stretch to say that a bunch of red marks send a different message (this is a pile of shit you ignorant asshat) than green (these areas need attention). By making the mistakes easier to handle, they can actually address them instead of viewing them as insurmountable and giving up.

This isn't about coddling, it is about creating an environment that enhances learning.

Hypothetically.

No. By doing this we are creating an environment where making mistakes is seen as bad, and something to be avoided, and even kept secret. That does not help learning. Kids need to learn that making mistakes is ok, as long as you fix it.

Red is clear. Red means stop, danger, or beef if it's Oxo. Green means continue, this is ok, or vegetable. I will not teach vegetables.

The failure is not in the colour of the pen, it's in the way making mistakes is interpreted. It's up to the teacher to reinforce the idea that making mistakes is ok, and that things can be fixed. Not that potential problems should be avoided or hidden.

Yes, I'm a teacher. Yes I use a red pen for marking. No, I won't stop using it... unless I happen to lose it somewhere.

This! I, too, am a teacher and believe that pupils need to make mistakes to learn from them. Otherwise they may not know where they are going wrong

 

[ReservoirAngel]

*sees Daily Mail in url link*

Well now I can probably safely assume that it was merely mentioned and they've just gone ahead and reported it like it's going to be brutally enforced.

 

[Android2137]

Oh great. What's next? "We're banning the colors pink and blue from the school because it reinforces gender stereotypes"?

 

[Litchhunter]

AS a student, this is just damn stupid.
My current math teacher basically just SHOVES our failures in our faces, and you know what?
It makes us better! It spurs us on to prove ourselves, and it WORKS.
I personally find that the teachers that baby students don't get as far, because it just doesn't sink in.
So dear UK school system- The people you are trying to help think you need to stop. That says something.

 

[Evil Top Hat]

Here's the link if anyone wants to read the article to make sure I'm not bullshitting...
http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-1101790/Teachers-banned-using-confrontational-red-ink-case-upsets-children.html

The daily mail are like the english equivallent of fox news, they scaremonger and exagerrate to outrage people, rather than actually give news. Take everything you hear from the daily mail with about 4 shipping containers full of salt.

If two schools banned the use of red ink the daily mail are the kind of paper that would describe it as a "stupidity epicdemic" thats corrupting our country, our children and causing house prices to rise. They'd probably throw in a quick racist remark about how the immigrants are taking our jobs for good measure.

 

[Treblaine]

Also, red is arbitrarily a "bad" colour. It is only bad for it's ASSOCIATION with poor literacy, the shame of being a dunce.

red can be positive: such as Red letter day, Red Sky at Night, and association between Red and heroic sacrifice. The point is red is not a colour unique for its negativity, but more for it's PROMINENCE! In football, the Red Card is made red because red is a very eye catching colour, it is imperative, it is more imperative for a traffic light in it's function of stopping, greem merely confirms "definitely not red" you don't need green-lights every 50 yards along a road to keep travelling ahead.

Red is an eye catching colour in so many ways and really marks should be on paper in red as THAT IS A TEACHER'S JOB! Schools are not supposed be to glorified babysitting centres, the kids are supposed to be learning SOMETHING! You can't just congratulate them on every single proper use of grammar and point out errors by failing to congratulate.

The emphasis needs to be that these red marks are the best thing a child can get, a child's privilege in preparation for life!

 

[Xanadu84]

Okay, you want to ban red ink? You know what? Ill bite. I can see red ink being demoralizing, and a tiny, tiny change like using a different pen might make a small difference in the positive. So Ill listen to the argument. Show me the data that suggests that not using red ink will encourage students. Oh. There's no data at all. Well how about you come back when your not just pulling stuff out of your ass.

In the interest of fairness, I think that people getting super-offended should get some opposing data before they casually dismiss this idea. Maybe theres something to it. But there should be some evidence first.

 

[spartandude]

You do all realize this is based on a legitimate study on the effects of color on the human psyche? It's the same reason mental wards are painted green. If you see red before a test, statistically speaking, you'll do worse on it. I could really care less what color people grade in.

Look, here's a study.

http://psp.sagepub.com/content/34/11/1530.short

Edit: Big fail on my part. Didn't realize you'd have to buy a membership to the site to read the full study. The abstract is still there though.

exactly, so when i want my essay marked i want the mistakes in red to show me my mistakes so i can focus on them and know i need to improve them

if its green it wouldnt be as alarming and i might not be bothered to fix them

 

[NightmareWarden]

I think that this goes along with people who read WAY to deep into things. Can I believe that factors in school can cause a student to continue to spiral downward and get worse grades? Yes. Can I believe that a teacher's actions can cause this? Yes. Does a red failing grade cause more psychological problems than a (insert pen color here) grade? No. I don't believe that something as meaningless as color can cause such a large difference. Please don't take that statement out of context.

 

[kannibus]

Waiter? WAITER! Where's my check?

I think I've had it with the all you can eat buffet of this world.

 

[GrizzlerBorno]

And you're going about it wrong by assuming that the red ink is a power play. It's a commonly available color that stands out against blue ink, black ink, and pencil. It means "you got this wrong, and I'm showing you so you can learn from the mistake." As for what you were saying earlier about a 500 year old system that exists to humiliate students, it's nothing of the sort. Old fashioned teaching techniques have been around for a long time for a reason; they work. All this focus on teachers being "learning facilitators" who are supposed to be equal to the students, instead of authority figures who have special knowledge to be passed on? That is a sign of the decline of the educational system. It's one thing for a teacher to admit that he or she doesn't know everything. It's something else entirely for the teacher to know nothing, or to know no more than the students do. There's a word for teachers like that: it's unqualified. As in "if you don't know this stuff, you are unqualified to teach this subject."

Now I know that sounds like it plays right into what you were saying about how teachers act like they know everything and you know nothing. But that's not how it works. A well qualified teacher is one who knows more about the subject they're teaching than the students. Their job is to impart that knowledge to the students. It's not a case of "I know more than you ever will." It's a case of "I know more than you do right now. Let's fix that."

I'm not assuming anything, I'm just stating my observations. Take that for what it is, I keep telling everyone.

Also, no arguments about that last bit. I never said teachers should try to be equals. If that's what it sounded like, then I misspoke. I only mean that I view the red ink barrier (which is what I and a lot of other students DO view it as. Not everyone, by any means... But many, I'm sure) as an arbitrary one that separates students from teachers on more than just an academic level. It separates them on a symbolic "status" (perhaps inadvertently, perhaps not) level which I believe is counter-productive.

Also: hey Owyn, how are you? Being a college student in America isn't as bad as I thought it'd be

 

[Psychedelic Spartan]

Soon the stop lights will be grey because red incites panic in .000000000000000001% of the population.

Exactly. I admit i'm not perfect in school and see red pen on my tests all the time. But do I go home crying every day? NO! It helps me see my mistakes and work on them!!!!!!!

 

[emeraldrafael]

I think I saw this before in a cracked article when they were talking about stuff that was disappearing from schools and our kids would never see.

anyway, I just hope my 8th grade english/grammar and college argument and research teachers never see this. Otherwise they'll just write whoever the genius that came up with the idea a strongly worded letter in red in just to piss them off.

seriously thoug, I remember those two teachers would always use red ink. red was bad, and you only ever got blue ink (good) if you got a 100% or your paper was drastically better then the rest of the class that they wanted everyone else to know that they failed horrendously and would never be as good as the kid who got blue ink (of whcih I did a few times). and if you ever got less then a 75% (hard C), they'd just take a big fat red sharpie and write on every page of your paper your grade. usually adding a word to it like Dunce, or Failure, or Crap.

...

Actually, i remember in 8th grade one kid failed so hard on a seven page paper the teacher just wrote YOU FAIL in big red letters, one letter a page, down her paper, then added an eighth sheet just to berate the girls paper and tell her how horrible her paper was. The expressions "made me want to quit nd kill myself so I never see your writing again", "you have no business advancing past second grade", and "waste of paper the other (valuable and worthwhile) students could have used".

it was an interesting year.

 

[Owyn_Merrilin]

And you're going about it wrong by assuming that the red ink is a power play. It's a commonly available color that stands out against blue ink, black ink, and pencil. It means "you got this wrong, and I'm showing you so you can learn from the mistake." As for what you were saying earlier about a 500 year old system that exists to humiliate students, it's nothing of the sort. Old fashioned teaching techniques have been around for a long time for a reason; they work. All this focus on teachers being "learning facilitators" who are supposed to be equal to the students, instead of authority figures who have special knowledge to be passed on? That is a sign of the decline of the educational system. It's one thing for a teacher to admit that he or she doesn't know everything. It's something else entirely for the teacher to know nothing, or to know no more than the students do. There's a word for teachers like that: it's unqualified. As in "if you don't know this stuff, you are unqualified to teach this subject."

Now I know that sounds like it plays right into what you were saying about how teachers act like they know everything and you know nothing. But that's not how it works. A well qualified teacher is one who knows more about the subject they're teaching than the students. Their job is to impart that knowledge to the students. It's not a case of "I know more than you ever will." It's a case of "I know more than you do right now. Let's fix that."

I'm not assuming anything, I'm just stating my observations. Take that for what it is, I keep telling everyone.

Also, no arguments about that last bit. I never said teachers should try to be equals. If that's what it sounded like, then I misspoke. I only mean that I view the red ink barrier (which is what I and a lot of other students DO view it as. Not everyone, by any means... But many, I'm sure) as an arbitrary one that separates students from teachers on more than just an academic level. It separates them on a symbolic "status" (perhaps inadvertently, perhaps not) level which I believe is counter-productive.

Also: hey Owyn, how are you? Being a college student in America isn't as bad as I thought it'd be

So I suppose you never had a teacher that did peer grading? I know you're not exactly from the States. Around here, teachers will frequently pass out multiple choice exams (which are easy to grade) to students, as well as a bunch of red pens, and then go over the answers, which saves a lot of time by grading everything at once. It's not the color of teachers correcting students; it's just the color of corrections and comments.

Edit: I missed the last question at first. I'm doing pretty well, actually. I'm right in the center of campus this year, and a member of several active clubs, so I feel a lot more plugged in than I did last year. And yeah, American collegiate life is pretty laid back. Sure, the work gets hard at times, but it's not significantly worse than highschool, and you actually live on a campus with (potentially) thousands of people your own age, so the downtime is a lot more fun. How have you been doing?

 

[GrizzlerBorno]

So I suppose you never had a teacher that did peer grading? I know you're not exactly from the States. Around here, teachers will frequently pass out multiple choice exams (which are easy to grade) to students, as well as a bunch of red pens, and then go over the answers, which saves a lot of time by grading everything at once. It's not the color of teachers correcting students; it's just the color of corrections and comments.

Edit: I missed the last question at first. I'm doing pretty well, actually. I'm right in the center of campus this year, and a member of several active clubs, so I feel a lot more plugged in than I did last year. And yeah, American collegiate life is pretty laid back. Sure, the work gets hard at times, but it's not significantly worse than highschool, and you actually live on a campus with (potentially) thousands of people your own age, so the downtime is a lot more fun. How have you been doing?

We did have something like that once or twice.....but we just used our own pens. Just to not be a cheeky little bastard I'll put the blame for that one not on my teacher's sense of superiority.....but on his stinginess for not wanting to buy so many red pens. See I can be open-minded

That's good to hear man. I'm trying to balance academics with a healthy club-life as well. It's definitely not as hard as I thought it'd be right now, since I got some easy courses. So yeah I'm alright. A little homesick already; but alright. What Uni did you say you were in again?

 

[Owyn_Merrilin]

So I suppose you never had a teacher that did peer grading? I know you're not exactly from the States. Around here, teachers will frequently pass out multiple choice exams (which are easy to grade) to students, as well as a bunch of red pens, and then go over the answers, which saves a lot of time by grading everything at once. It's not the color of teachers correcting students; it's just the color of corrections and comments.

Edit: I missed the last question at first. I'm doing pretty well, actually. I'm right in the center of campus this year, and a member of several active clubs, so I feel a lot more plugged in than I did last year. And yeah, American collegiate life is pretty laid back. Sure, the work gets hard at times, but it's not significantly worse than highschool, and you actually live on a campus with (potentially) thousands of people your own age, so the downtime is a lot more fun. How have you been doing?

We did have something like that once or twice.....but we just used our own pens. Just to not be a cheeky little bastard I'll put the blame for that one not on my teacher's sense of superiority.....but on his stinginess for not wanting to buy so many red pens. See I can be open-minded

That's good to hear man. I'm trying to balance academics with a healthy club-life as well. It's definitely not as hard as I thought it'd be right now, since I got some easy courses. So yeah I'm alright. A little homesick already; but alright. What Uni did you say you were in again?

Glad to hear you're doing well -- and I completely understand about the homesickness. I occasionally get a bit homesick, and I live close enough to home that I can go there on the weekends if I want to or need to. Coming in from a completely different country has got to be rough. As for the specific school, it's USF in Florida. Not exactly Ivy league, but a good school. Humans Vs. Zombies starts up next month; I can't wait. If your school has a game, look into playing -- it's just about /the/ best way to meet people on a campus where people tend to be cliqueish, and the game itself may well be the most fun you'll ever have playing a game in your life. I'm really sad that this is going to be my last term playing.

 

[GrizzlerBorno]

You would have been thrown out of my class before the first quarter was over if you were disrupting class, so you wouldn't have had the time to save yourself. But as I've told my kids: you don't have to like me to pass my class, you just have to be smart enough not to spite yourselves out of some delusional notion that you're hurting me by not trying. Because you're not. I like how you judge my teaching methods based on absolutely no knowledge of me at all, it really helps validate your case. Honestly I don't care what kind of student you are, or what kind of student any of my kids are. I only expect effort and I try to convince students to put forth that effort. You've managed to misread my statements based on a single line, which convinces me that this argument is not worth having. But for the sake of setting the record clear....

I agree with you: [color=ANY other color at all. heck even black. What's so wrong with teachers wiritng in black ink. Can students not tell apart their handwriting from their teachers' nowaydays?] constructive criticism is the best way to teach mistakes to kids. Also I didn't say anything about coddling or not coddling. Some kids prefer the traditional method of teaching, and traditional methods are built into the fabric of most job environments, so kids should be aware of these environments and trained to handle them. State tests also aren't going to ever bend over and allow alternative assessments, so kids need to know how to sit down and take pencil-and-paper tests.

All I said was "alternative teaching is NOT the best way for everyone" and to suggest that it is, is utterly dishonest. Even the kids will occasionally testify that they prefer traditional methods, and to tell them "no, you have to put up with it" is wrong too. I'm a strong believer that we need to reorganize the teaching system to incorporate both strategies....the problem is how to manage it.[/color]

See? I came this close to not even fully reading your entire comment, because the first paragraph was a big 'ol dump of pedantic, obtuse "teacher-talk", scolding me for my bad mannerisms, and hypothetical behavior.....even though you're not even my teacher!

THAT'S what Red ink does man! It hides your perfectly reasonable and intelligent assertions (in the second paragraph) behind an impenetrable wall of pure meh. I'm extremely sorry if this seems rude, but it's just true.

Btw, I'm not saying I shouldn't be reprimanded for actually committing the actions I theorized in my last comment. But I didn't commit them. I only threatened to do so. It's something I've seen hundreds of teenagers do. In short I was trolling you. And you cut me a nice, big turkey leg: you had the obvious response, which is to pre-maturely call me out for my "actions", instead of discussing it with me on a level playing field and preventing my actions.

This was the mistake my English teacher made: She threw me out of her class when I wouldn't conform to her ridiculously specific standards. So I did all the studying myself, and got a 750 in writing, in my SAT. Then I rubbed it in her face in the most politely cruel way I could.

And you are absolutely right that many kids DO learn better with the "I will fuck you up!" treatment (easy, that was just a joke). There is no doubt about it. I'm sure there is no cure-all for teaching every kind of student. I respect the shit you guys have to go through, trust me. Many of my best friend's are teachers, and some of my teachers are my fondest childhood friends.

After much though, I guess I do agree that banning the use of red ink altogether was a little bit excessive. But it's just that a lot of you guys are debating that red ink doesn't have a subconscious negative effect on some students which it clearly DOES! That's all I'm saying.

 

[GrizzlerBorno]

Glad to hear you're doing well -- and I completely understand about the homesickness. I occasionally get a bit homesick, and I live close enough to home that I can go there on the weekends if I want to or need to. Coming in from a completely different country has got to be rough. As for the specific school, it's USF in Florida. Not exactly Ivy league, but a good school. Humans Vs. Zombies starts up next month; I can't wait. If your school has a game, look into playing -- it's just about /the/ best way to meet people on a campus where people tend to be cliqueish, and the game itself may well be the most fun you'll ever have playing a game in your life. I'm really sad that this is going to be my last term playing.

HAHAHAHA! Waay ahead of you friend: I already played a couple rounds (1 week-long and 1 day round) of Humans vs. Zombies, and it was pure unadulterated awesomeness sold in a can for the price of a bandana and a Nerf Recon. Seriously: Best. club. idea. in. history.

I mean, the chapter here in Ithaca College (New York) isn't too big; about 40-60 people show up at most. I'm guessing a big public school like your's would have a LOT more players. But still, it's friggin awesome. Great way to meet new people of a similarly wacky disposition.

And I'm only about 5 hours from NYC where I have relatives so it's not that far tbh. I'm planning on going down there for Columbus day weekend. So it's not that bad. I'll manage.

 

[dorkette1990]

This happened in the US as well! I was a teacher's assistant, and her first warning was "don't use a red pen - apparently they make kids feel bad, so we have to use something else, like black or blue".

Of course, this just meant I went out and bought a package of brightly colored gel pens, so I could write "F - you failed to answer the prompt, and I think if you went over your essay with spellcheck, you could get a higher grade " in neon pink! Because the pink will make the F less painful.

 

[Owyn_Merrilin]

Glad to hear you're doing well -- and I completely understand about the homesickness. I occasionally get a bit homesick, and I live close enough to home that I can go there on the weekends if I want to or need to. Coming in from a completely different country has got to be rough. As for the specific school, it's USF in Florida. Not exactly Ivy league, but a good school. Humans Vs. Zombies starts up next month; I can't wait. If your school has a game, look into playing -- it's just about /the/ best way to meet people on a campus where people tend to be cliqueish, and the game itself may well be the most fun you'll ever have playing a game in your life. I'm really sad that this is going to be my last term playing.

HAHAHAHA! Waay ahead of you friend: I already played a couple rounds (1 week-long and 1 day round) of Humans vs. Zombies, and it was pure unadulterated awesomeness sold in a can for the price of a bandana and a Nerf Recon. Seriously: Best. club. idea. in. history.

I mean, the chapter here in Ithaca College (New York) isn't too big; about 40-60 people show up at most. I'm guessing a big public school like your's would have a LOT more players. But still, it's friggin awesome. Great way to meet new people of a similarly wacky disposition.

And I'm only about 5 hours from NYC where I have relatives so it's not that far tbh. I'm planning on going down there for Columbus day weekend. So it's not that bad. I'll manage.

Oh yeah, we only had 500 people play last term due to mandatory rules meetings weeding out the less serious players. Only. The average is much higher. Nice to see you've got a dedicated club for it, though; here, it's run by a different club every term, and that inevitably brings issues, because club leadership tends to want to play and moderate at the same time, and they can't bring themselves to be impartial. You would not believe some of the drama this causes.