Science Breakthrough: Plate Armor is Heavy

[NinjaMan1001]

"This just in! Pain hurts~ More on this at 11 ."

 

[Whispering Cynic]

Wow... seriously, wow (slow clap). So our scientist friends *finally* figured out what my history teacher explained to us on highschool. Bravo!

 

[Monsterfurby]

I've been LARPing for 10 years. I wear plate armor pretty close to its historical counterpart. Why didn't they just ask me?

Also, chainmail is much heavier.

 

[Alon Shechter]

Oh wow, really?
And here I thought the only reason knights tire faster is because they have incredibly large penises!

 

[Riobux]

I am glad to learn of this ground breaking news before I depart from this world. This information has not only changed my life, but it'll change the life of every other person alive. We could of never advanced technologically without scientific evidence that plate armour is not only heavy, but heavier than not wearing plate armour. I would like to thank the scientists involve for bringing this important news and can't wait to hear future scientific investigations.

 

[Strazdas]

so you take a obvious fact. put it into inadequate conditions, and from result deduct obvious result regardless that conditions you were comparing it to (past) was different. this makes science look bad.
on the other hand, maybe we will see "us marine suit" in wow due to this?

 

[ultrachicken]

I once tried putting weights into a backpack, and special weights on my legs, for training purposes. That particular session did not exactly go well.

The thing about the experiment was that the test subjects were probably not USED to the weight of the armour. I spend days at a time with my leg weights on, and find that after a couple of days my body adjusts accordingly, almost as if I'm not wearing them at all. I wouldn't second guess that getting a feel for their armour was a regular part of a knight's training.

Agreed. Not to mention that it's possible to make use of momentum to help reduce the amount of force you have to exert to keep moving forward. Flawed study is flawed.

 

[Dogstile]

- Snip -

snip snip

Its ok, but surely you'd be better off posting on one of the guys who actually used leather as an example?

 

[Ashoten]

Soooooooooo did the scientists have the armor custom made for the testers? and if so did they then have them train in the custom fitted armor for days or weeks before the testing began?
Cause you know I always look forward to the summer Olympics weightlifting for people that have never done it before in there life but its so fun to watch them strain muscles and hurt themselves competition(SARCASM).

Did they use actual armor that saw combat as their reference or did they unknowingly use display pieces that were never intended to be worn? I would never accuse scientists of being lazy and only using the most convenient data on hand instead of researching the subject in full and just assuming their smarter then everyone else to know what to look at but I guess I just did.

These are things I want answered before I believe one word of the findings.

 

[Denamic]

Mail certainly had flexibility over plate, but there's no real weight saving with mail and mail can be rather ineffective against a piercing strike (say, from an arrow or a lance).

Hairsplitting aside, quilt and leather were actually very good at stopping arrows.
You might get some penetration and a shallow wound, but full on penetration with enough energy left over to keep penetrating into your body was exceptionally hard to achieve with anything but a powerful crossbow.

 

[Gamblerjoe]

Well that must have been one of the most pointless things iv read. Of course wearing plate mail sucked. Fighting in a war sucks in many many ways. Its already been proven by science that exerting yourself in ways that you are not accustomed to requires more energy. Its called muscle memory. Its been proven that higher weight requires more force and therefore more strength and energy to move. Its also been proven that exerting yourself more causes your muscles to require more respiration, and therefore more blood. When your muscles require more blood your heart beats faster. When your muscles are using more oxygen, they are producing carbon dioxide faster.

Full plate was a very potent form of protection. It was nearly impossible to harm someone in full plate until you got them into a helpless state. Like anything else that has ever proven effective on a battlefield, people started finding ways to counter it. The same can be said for horses, phalanxes, chariots, castles, and many other things.

 

[Vankraken]

I do think this study ignores the work arounds that knights used to avoid the pitfalls of wearing heavy plate mail. Even with how heavy plate armor is the knights would be entering the battle in a far better state of rest and energy than the common soldier they would be facing. They had pages to carry their gear, set up camp, prepare them for battle, do normal logistical stuff, etc. They also would receive better rations of food so they would be better fed and have more energy to utilize. Also knights would almost always be mounted which is the most effective way to utilize full body plate armor (you don't have to walk).

Its cool that they tested how wearing heavy armor impacted the physical condition of a person but I don't put a lot of credit into the findings unless it looked accurately unto the manner that knights utilized the armor and the pros and cons of wearing full plate. If you want to do a study on wearing heavy armor then just as a soldier how they feel about wearing full body class IV armor (that's armor with the ceramic plates inserted) and I'm sure they will tell you its heavy as shit, hot, and makes moving difficult.

 

[Gottesstrafe]

Oh, and as for that bit about how plate armor would fare against a longbow...

As much as I love that series (seriously, if you can find The Weapons That Made Britain, watch it. It's quite informative), I always get the feeling people come away with the wrong conclusion from that clip. That 'the long bow penetrated steel breastplate, therefore armour sucks' rather than 'the longbow penetrated steel breastplate, but the process of doing so robbed the arrow of any lethal force whatsoever leaving a very much alive and probably very angry knight bearing down on you, therefore armour has done its job and worked'.

They said as much in the clip, I was very much surprised to see the arrowhead flattened when they retrieved it. I doubt it would hold up long against the continuous fire you'd see in movies that would blot out the sun, but for the stray arrow I'm sure it would be a life saver (especially considering medieval surgical practices).

About the "Armour worn on the battlefield would weigh no more than 60 pounds" part, I was under the impression that soldiers dressed in full plate armor were usually mounted on horses. I won't pretend to know the total weight a war horse back then could carry (also factoring in the weight of the rider and his weapons), but I would think that alone would give a little more leeway to the rider in terms of heavier pieces of armor.

Still, I suppose there's the eventuality of being dismounted from the horse if it were to be injured or if the rider were to be pulled off by a polearm to take into account...

 

[Puzzlenaut]

Wrong, it's not science. Like Martial artists, Knights were trained since their youth in armor. They wore it like a second skin from childhood. I carry a 50 pound pack while hiking long distances, and after a few days, it feels like less than half the weight. People don't understand today the meaning of "bred for battle", but the Knights spent a ridiculous amount of time training to be soldiers. US Marines, on the other hand spend a few months. Try to understand the difference.

You forget that knights weren't necessarily particularly good soldiers, and they rarely even fought -- they were just aristocrats who "led" the armies and acted as figureheads, wearing huge expensive armour to preserve their measly hides.
Knights were never an elite order, they were just rich kids sitting in for the people who really knew what they were doing.

 

[Life_Is_A_Mess]

In other news: Water is wet. The Sun shines. Most fish are known to execute a muscular task that in combination with their hidrodynamic structure creates a movement called swimming.

 

[LondonBeer]

Hmmmmm I dont need to point out that 4 modern day 'researchers' (AKA Tarquin and Farqhuar probably Etonians) are zero zip nada representative of a medieval knight. In fact youd have to go get a rugby player to even get close to the correct body mass & then youd have to find a really short one.

Even if Tarquin & Faruqhuar play with swords all day long they wouldnt have the physical regimen required from childhood to pass muster.

 

[LondonBeer]

It was an experiment to see what factors affected the battle of Agincourt and enabled England to win against the French, as there were considerably less British soldiers than there were French knights. Because the British archers were armed in light armour, whilst the French knights were in plate it gave the archers an advantage. That's what it was about not to see whether armour is heavy, as it was so eloquently put.

I dont think it is based in Agincourt, if it was running a treadmill doesnt really create any kind of scientific sense or rigour since Agincourt was a muddy field. Common sense & basic material sciences tells you running through mud requires more effort than running across a flat surface.

 

[LitleWaffle]

I once tried putting weights into a backpack, and special weights on my legs, for training purposes. That particular session did not exactly go well.

The thing about the experiment was that the test subjects were probably not USED to the weight of the armour. I spend days at a time with my leg weights on, and find that after a couple of days my body adjusts accordingly, almost as if I'm not wearing them at all. I wouldn't second guess that getting a feel for their armour was a regular part of a knight's training.

Most likely, but Knights still had problems with their heavy armor...

1. Lack of Sight
2. Slower movement than the average person
3. If you fall over, you're screwed.

Sure I agree with the whole training business, but regardless, a knights armor was still a burden when facing an unarmored foe.

 

[Abize]

I think this video is very much needed in here: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=NqC_squo6X4
Yes, it's lengthy, but it's worth it (at least if you're interested in this kind of stuff). But to summerize this in context of this study: The study is not only very poorly done "sciencemanship"-wise, but also very, very inaccurate.

(Seriously though, watch the video.)

Loved the vid, a bit long but still very interesting ^.^


P.S;embeded for the terminally lazy

 

[noahd]

what's next, fire is hot, rain is wet, and some day soon we'll find out real science. because those who JUST discovered plate armor is heavy. isn't getting anywhere anytime soon. they've been doing mideval type reconstructions for many years. all you had to do was go ask one of the fellas interested in those things. or ask the museum.

it's almost to the point they don't know that there was other things that people died from back then that the suit could never protect from.

it's like asking someone to carry a bag of bricks for you and walking a long distance and discovering he got tired faster. "researchers" my ass. those rich boys need to get their noses back into books rather than into their parents wallets.