Scientists On Trial For.... Earthquakes?

[AlloAllo]

If you'd like to read this story from a less *ahem* "impassioned" source, you can read it here:

http://www.digitaljournal.com/article/311759

It makes the important distinction that the scientists had told the government that a major earthquake was "improbable", so I can see why they'd be a bit miffed that the entire city was reduced to rubble and three hundred people lost their lives.

Not that Gizmodo, the pinnacle of unbiased reporting, would ever overlook something so important for the opportunity for lavish dramatics.

...Hey, moderate guy, I like you. Wanna enjoy a drink? We can return when somebody mentions Hitler or the discussion has cooled down.

 

[Housebroken Lunatic]

when was the last time a witch hunt happened? and isnt that like....less than a percent of the total religious groups? hell, how many fucked up NON religious groups are out there doing the same thing but for another agenda?

i never blame the belief behind it, just the nutjobs who do it.

Well actually, in saudi arabia a man was put to death for the crime of "sorcery" just a few days ago. Im quite sure that a completely secular legal system doesn't really include punishments for "crimes" like sorcery, do you?

Anyway, im not saying that non-religious groups don't do stupid or fucked-up things, im just remarking upon the interesting detail that during some of the most EPIC instances of stupidity throughoput human history, religion has somehow always been involved in one way or another.

I think it's starting to become quite valid to suspect that something really... well "stupid" is integral to religion, as a system that is.

I'd like to stress the point once again that I don't think all religious people are stupid. I find it odd that adult human beings believe in imaginary friends, but I guess we all need certain aspects to make the world seem more interesting, whether you're an ardent believer in conspiracy theories concerning alien crashlandings and government cover ups, or divine imaginary friends. It's not necessarily stupid, if a tad bit excentric (in my opinion).

But my argument still stands, how come religion has always been involved one way or the other in so much stupidity and on such a grand scale that the stupidity actually has historical records?

Isn't it strange that some of the most heavily religious regions of the earth are also the most troubled ones? Take Jerusalem for instance, devout religious people EVERYWHERE, and it's pretty much a fucking warzone!

How long can you simply dismiss it as "coincidence"?

 

[Scout Tactical]

...Hey, moderate guy, I like you. Wanna enjoy a drink? We can return when somebody mentions Hitler or the discussion has cooled down.

I'm surprised Godwin's Law hasn't been invoked yet.

In fact, no one has referenced Mussolini either. We might just me making SOME progress, after all.

 

[Orcus The Ultimate]

oh well thanks, i like to think that just because im religious im automatically stupid.

ITS A WONDER AS TO HOW I GOT INTO COLLEGE!!!!!

also, i wouldn't call that a theory as much as a prejudice remark.

Religiously funded witch-hunts and supression of scientific finds speak pretty loudly in favor of my theory.

Under what methodology do you subject "your" theory? you say that scientific finds were suppressed; that's a huge misconception you have right there written as if it was some kind of law! in fact, a great deal of advancements were on the behalf of Catholic priests, monks and friars for many centuries.

No, im no saying that you're stupid specifically, but you can't really deny the phenomenon going on in the macro-scale, right?

Did you know that Inductive Reasoning has many flaws... it's not because you've observed one then a second then a third green Crow, that all crows in the world are green.

 

[Neverhoodian]

The stupid. It hurts so much.
I totally expected this to be coming from some religious nuts in the US.

Oh come now. You should know that stupidity knows no borders.

This is just...ugh. Are these people for real? The utter lack of logic and reason just astounds me.

 

[sageoftruth]

Just ridiculous. I need to find a secondary source. I can't accept that this is the whole story. Something this insane just isn't possible.

 

[AlloAllo]

...Hey, moderate guy, I like you. Wanna enjoy a drink? We can return when somebody mentions Hitler or the discussion has cooled down.

I'm surprised Godwin's Law hasn't been invoked yet.

In fact, no one has referenced Mussolini either. We might just me making SOME progress, after all.

To be honest, Hitler ha been referenced in the very first page- but they haven't yet called the prosecutors 'Nazis', so I guess that it doesn't count.

Still, I think that Godwin's Law should have a corollary for religion: mention the Church and the whole discussion has gone to hell.

*glances at the discussion*

...We're screwed.

 

[Jace1709]

If you'd like to read this story from a less *ahem* "impassioned" source, you can read it here:

http://www.digitaljournal.com/article/311759

It makes the important distinction that the scientists had told the government that a major earthquake was "improbable", so I can see why they'd be a bit miffed that the entire city was reduced to rubble and three hundred people lost their lives.

Not that Gizmodo, the pinnacle of unbiased reporting, would ever overlook something so important for the opportunity for lavish dramatics.

Damn, i was just about to point this out. The article in the original post said absolutely nothing about the fact that the Scientists involved actually reassured people that it was nothing to worry about. There's a huge difference between not warning someone about something that 'may' happen, and coming out as an 'expert' and saying everythings going to be fine. A lot of people take the words of Scientists very seriously (almost as absolute) and to say that, when apparantly there is no reliable way to predict earthquakes, is very dangerous.

 

[k-ossuburb]

The stupid, it BURNS!

This is exactly how I feel right now.​

Well, actually, no it's not, I just wanted to post that clip. If the original article is to believed then yes, that's how I'll feel, but it seems that this has been blown out of proportion somewhat.

 

[Totes]

Ignore post

 

[Totes]

-The amount of stupidity blows my mind...

 

[Totes]

-Derp triple post, please ignore.

 

[Jegsimmons]

when was the last time a witch hunt happened? and isnt that like....less than a percent of the total religious groups? hell, how many fucked up NON religious groups are out there doing the same thing but for another agenda?

i never blame the belief behind it, just the nutjobs who do it.

Well actually, in saudi arabia a man was put to death for the crime of "sorcery" just a few days ago. Im quite sure that a completely secular legal system doesn't really include punishments for "crimes" like sorcery, do you?

Anyway, im not saying that non-religious groups don't do stupid or fucked-up things, im just remarking upon the interesting detail that during some of the most EPIC instances of stupidity throughoput human history, religion has somehow always been involved in one way or another.

I think it's starting to become quite valid to suspect that something really... well "stupid" is integral to religion, as a system that is.

I'd like to stress the point once again that I don't think all religious people are stupid. I find it odd that adult human beings believe in imaginary friends, but I guess we all need certain aspects to make the world seem more interesting, whether you're an ardent believer in conspiracy theories concerning alien crashlandings and government cover ups, or divine imaginary friends. It's not necessarily stupid, if a tad bit excentric (in my opinion).

But my argument still stands, how come religion has always been involved one way or the other in so much stupidity and on such a grand scale that the stupidity actually has historical records?

Isn't it strange that some of the most heavily religious regions of the earth are also the most troubled ones? Take Jerusalem for instance, devout religious people EVERYWHERE, and it's pretty much a fucking warzone!

How long can you simply dismiss it as "coincidence"?

i dont dismiss it as coincidence. i know that irrational people cause this shit but heres the thing....irrational people will do this ANYWAY, take politics for example. Or hitler, he wasnt religious. Or stalin.

but even then, how much good has religion done us? ALOT. it wasnt religion that got us in the dark ages (it was rome collapsing) but if it wasnt for religion we wouldn't have had the crusades which help start trade with the east again bringing the renaissance, the discovery of america, or culture eastern or western. Infact religion has on numerous occasions HELPED science. its only the parts where the groups get upset over contradictions to belief that people and history tend to focus on.

also, please dont say we believe in imaginary friends, thats just insulting. we dont talk to pieces of wood we pray to a god. not the same thing.

 

[Snake Plissken]

Is it wrong of me to want to inflict bodily harm on these prosecutors by hitting them with my really, really heavy geography books?

Yes. Perhaps you should hit them with geology books instead.

 

[Scout Tactical]

Well actually, in saudi arabia a man was put to death for the crime of "sorcery" just a few days ago. Im quite sure that a completely secular legal system doesn't really include punishments for "crimes" like sorcery, do you?

Anyway, im not saying that non-religious groups don't do stupid or fucked-up things, im just remarking upon the interesting detail that during some of the most EPIC instances of stupidity throughoput human history, religion has somehow always been involved in one way or another.

I think it's starting to become quite valid to suspect that something really... well "stupid" is integral to religion, as a system that is.

I'd like to stress the point once again that I don't think all religious people are stupid. I find it odd that adult human beings believe in imaginary friends, but I guess we all need certain aspects to make the world seem more interesting, whether you're an ardent believer in conspiracy theories concerning alien crashlandings and government cover ups, or divine imaginary friends. It's not necessarily stupid, if a tad bit excentric (in my opinion).

But my argument still stands, how come religion has always been involved one way or the other in so much stupidity and on such a grand scale that the stupidity actually has historical records?

Isn't it strange that some of the most heavily religious regions of the earth are also the most troubled ones? Take Jerusalem for instance, devout religious people EVERYWHERE, and it's pretty much a fucking warzone!

How long can you simply dismiss it as "coincidence"?

Jerusalem is actually a pretty peaceful place right now. The only ongoing conflict they're in is with the Palestinians, and I haven't heard of any fighting going on near Jerusalem.

The cause of tensions surrounding Israel actually have more to do with British Imperialism than they do with Islam or Judiasm. When the French and English were done plundering Africa and the Middle East, they divided up the nations with borders that did not match the cultural or local powers at all, and chaos erupted as it was unclear who was supposed to control what land. You'll find that Jerusalem, Israel is a much safer place to be in (especially because of all the security) than, for instance, Africa. Here's some of the travel warnings I picked literally at random for Africa:

-Chad issued August, 2011. Americans are advised to avoid all travel to the East of the country, avoid travel after dusk and always travel in groups.
-Burundi issued June, 2011. Americans are advised to take extreme care if traveling to Burundi because of the risk of sudden outbreaks of armed violence, acts of banditry, and cross-border incursion by rebel groups.
-Eritrea issued February, 2011. All foreign nationals need special permits to travel outside the capital Asmara. The US urges visitors not to go to Eritrea. Avoid the border areas between Eritrea and Ethiopia as well as the border with Djibouti.
-Somalia issued August, 2011. The travel warnings extends to all US citizens traveling to Somaliland as well as Somalia. Inter-clan and inter-factional fighting can flare up with little warning, and kidnapping, murder, and other threats to U.S. citizens and other foreigners can occur unpredictably in many regions.

NOTE: All of these conflicts have to do with nationalist movements, banditry, and border disputes. My once-over revealed that none of these conflicts have anything to do with any religion at all.

A quick search of the BCA shows that there is no travel warning for Jersusalem right now. The only travel warning for Israel at all is the West Bank, an area whose conflict has nothing to do with religion, and everything to do with borders.

Aren't you a little bit old to be believing in imaginary wars...? I'm not calling you stupid, but it is a tad eccentric...

 

[Jamous]

Religiously funded witch-hunts and supression of scientific finds speak pretty loudly in favor of my theory.

No, im no saying that you're stupid specifically, but you can't really deny the phenomenon going on in the macro-scale, right?

I don't mean to interject with your conversation, but I just thought I'd mention that you've actually fallen prey to a common misconception there. Don't worry, it's one people fall into all the time. You see, during the Middle Ages, the Catholic church was actually the source of the majority of scientific advancements, and there's no evidence that they suppressed science at all.

I highly recommend reading this: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_common_misconceptions#Ancient_to_early_modern_history
You can learn all sorts of interesting things, ranging from Catholic patronage of science throughout the Middle and Victorian eras, to mis-attributed quotes. It's a pretty cool page.

While I see where you're coming from, yes. Yes the Catholic Church -did- suppress science. Not all science. But anything that contradicted their world view. Surely the fact that there was a fairly large... dispute, over whether the Earth orbits the Sun or vice versa. The church had a few people executed/permanently imprisoned because of this. Galileo & Giordano Bruno to name but two. So, whilst I can see where you're coming from, the Catholic Church -did- suppress certain scientific theories. Not all, probably not many, but they still did it. Basically what I'm trying to say is, yes, there kind of is evidence.

 

[Scout Tactical]

While I see where you're coming from, yes. Yes the Catholic Church -did- suppress science. Not all science. But anything that contradicted their world view. Surely the fact that there was a fairly large... dispute, over whether the Earth orbits the Sun or vice versa. The church had a few people executed/permanently imprisoned because of this. Galileo & Giordano Bruno to name but two. So, whilst I can see where you're coming from, the Catholic Church -did- suppress certain scientific theories. Not all, probably not many, but they still did it. Basically what I'm trying to say is, yes, there kind of is evidence.

Galileo was only brought to trial over his heliocentric viewpoint as a pretense. The real reason he was tried was because he personally insulted the Pope himself. If it was about the heliocentric theory, he would have been executed much earlier, or at least brought to trial earlier. He was allowed to publish two books on heliocentricism without even a censure. It was only after he had directly insulted the Pope that the Pope called him a heretic and had him arrested. This had more to do with insulting a man with poor self esteem than it did defending a world view. Take SPECIAL note of the fact that Nicolaus Copernicus, who was the progenitor of heliocentric theory, was never punished at all for it. Pope Clement VII and his cardinals were actually very interested in the possibility of the theory of heliocentricism. Copernicus himself did not believe his model conflicted with scripture, either.

As for Mr. Bruno, he was executed by the Inquisition for being a heretic, not for having any particular scientific viewpoint different from the church. To say that religion was suppressing science with Giordano's death would be like saying atheism was suppressing science with the deaths of millions of Russians under the Stalin regime while religion was stamped out in Communist Russia.

These are important details. The context of situations will always be ignored by those who only want to see things one way. I'm not saying this is your fault, either. The media in America has taken a VERY anti-Catholic stance for the entire existence of the nation, because we are so rooted in Protestantism. Still, if you want the whole story, you often need to dig a bit deeper.

This is actually an area of particular interest to me, and I've done quite a bit of independent research on the matter. I confess, though, Galileo is one of my favorites to study, so I have you at a slight disadvantage.

 

[Sonicron]

Is it wrong of me to want to inflict bodily harm on these prosecutors by hitting them with my really, really heavy geography books?

Yes. Perhaps you should hit them with geology books instead.

Well, as a geographer I'm expected to know my way around all of the geo-sciences to a certain extent, so I've got books on all subjects; I think of all the subject literature on my shelf as 'geography books', but for the sake of correctness I'll make sure I whack those bozos with the extra-heavy geology reference guide.

 

[kebab4you]

hihi, a good reason to use this ^v^

OT: Well they can't really punish mother nature so I guess scientists is close enough for them.

 

[joecool5000]

The stupid. It hurts so much.
I totally expected this to be coming from some religious nuts in the US.

So when some stupid ignorant angry people do and say stupid ignorant angry things, that automatically makes them "religious nuts"? Prejudiced much?