Sekiro Shadows Died for First Impressions

[stroopwafel]

Truth be told, I really wanted to like Nioh, but I ended up never finishing it because I just hated the inventory system and got tired of looking at the inventory screen for half an hour every time I completed a level, so I'm enjoying Sekiro more so far just because of that. The enemy designs aren't super interesting so far though, and the combat is very difficult.

There are things I like and dislike about both games, and I really like the combat systems in both of them, but I think I'll actually finish Sekiro even though I'm chipping away at it pretty slowly. I have no intention of going back to finish Nioh.

I had the same thing with Nioh, tons of loot and got kind of 'stuck' but I loved the combat so much that I started from scratch with everything I've learned about the game and end up absolutely loving it. Every weapon feels distinctly different with enemies having actual different animations on impact deciding which weapon you use. With Souls I usually just stuck with the sword b/c every other weapon just was never really as fun to use or was incredibly OP. With those games I always felt it was first and foremost designed with the sword in mind. With Nioh every weapon seemed to be much more deliberately considered and not just shoved in there for the sake of 'variety' and I felt much more inclined to switch them up.

The loot system that I saw as a detriment before actually started to work in the game's favor as you never got stuck with just starting weapons besides your main. Also what I did after each mission is visit the blacksmith and sell or disassemble my entire inventory of armor and weapons and use it for upgrade materials or money for soul matching. I won't mention Bloodborne since this game is really in a league of it's own and nails everything from weapon variety to amazing level and enemy design and while Nioh isn't as imaginative the enemies does seem to be a fair bit smarter and don't just try to death rush you.

The bosses in Nioh in particular are amazing and can easily rival some of the better fights in Sekiro. The fight against Tachibana Muneshige actually reminded me of the fight against Genichiro Ashina espescially their flurry of sword strikes. Ryu Hayabusa in the bloodshed's end DLC is also kinda reminiscent. And then I haven't even mentioned the variety of playstyles in Nioh and how it is impacted by the different stances, skill upgrades, ki pulse system, living weapon and the way you can mix onmyo and ninja skills that all add incredible depth to the game. Sekiro is probably my most favorite game but that is also in no small part thanks to the developers having excised most of Souls weaker elements(again I'm excluding Bloodborne here since the nuances here are quite different from Souls).

Definitely very hyped for Nioh 2 almost as much as I was for Sekiro. Can't wait for it to come out hopefully this year still or early next year.

 

[CritialGaming]

How does it compare to Nioh?

I would say that basic enemies are a bit easier here than in Nioh because they're so easy to stealth.

Mini-bosses and bosses are for the most part much harder than most of the bosses in Nioh. Nioh gave you more combat options, and more ability to cheese bosses and enemies if you were having trouble with them (just apply slow to anything you're having trouble with and it's an easy win), whereas the combat in Sekiro has fewer options, but is much more precise and difficult. There's no cheesing your way through this game, you actually have to get good, really good.

I hated Nioh's loot system, and that doesn't exist in this game. The areas in Sekiro are also much better structured than Nioh's levels so far.

There's also no armor in Sekiro, I haven't found any weapons other than the starting sword so far (although I'm pretty sure there are a few in the game), and there's no leveling system. So if you're slamming your head against a boss you can't grind for a few levels, or try a different weapon and armor combo and see if it works better. You just have to git gud and beat the boss.

Truth be told, I really wanted to like Nioh, but I ended up never finishing it because I just hated the inventory system and got tired of looking at the inventory screen for half an hour every time I completed a level, so I'm enjoying Sekiro more so far just because of that. The enemy designs aren't super interesting so far though, and the combat is very difficult.

There are things I like and dislike about both games, and I really like the combat systems in both of them, but I think I'll actually finish Sekiro even though I'm chipping away at it pretty slowly. I have no intention of going back to finish Nioh.

I?m pretty sure the only different ?weapons? you get in Sekiro are in the form of prosthetic attachments, as the whole core game revolves around katana swordplay and utilizing the different skill trees. While grinding is not RPG-level like SoulsBorne you can still enhance your abilities and item stashes to gain a bit more advantage over some tough bosses but yeah, ultimately it seems at least the main ones are all going to still require going toe-to-toe with. VaatiVidya has a good tip video [https://m.youtube.com/watch?v=zT35HWy_qvQ] out.

As for enemies I think

Spoiler

the big snake (snekiro?) takes the cake so far for me. God that was bone chilling stabbing that thing in the eye and watching it thrash around. I also enjoyed the horse rider because it was a change of pace and explored using grappling more for combat purposes.

 

[CritialGaming]

snip

Yes you only get to use the sword as your main weapon. Everything else is a arm tool.

 

[Fappy]

Coming in late (after finishing the game), so these are more final impressions than first. Some very light spoilers ahead.

I know that is a long list of Cons but that is only because I tend to be more detailed with complaints, lol. Overall it is a fantastic game that gave me a healthy mixture of grief and joy. I would recommend it to anyone that can stomach the difficulty, as there are a lot of fantastic and awe inspiring moments.

Dang dude, you ripped through this thing. That's a pretty solid compliment on its own.

I'm still early in the game, but I find myself starved for the kind of DS boss that makes me pucker - difficulty is present and feels decent, but I want beautiful nonsensecrazy bosses - DS I got one or two usually within the first few hours. Any hope for this game, or is it samurai patrol time?

So beautiful nonsense bosses are few and far between, but they are present for sure. One of the main story bosses near the end, though a gimmick fight, is absolutely awesome. The other more Souls-y bosses I complained about earlier are actually really cool thematically, so you may actually enjoy them despite the jankiness.

 

[Fappy]

Speaking of Nioh, I have the same problem with it that I have with every other Souls clone: I end up just wanting to play an actual Souls game instead. In a vaccuum the game is quite good (and the same can be said for others like Ashen), but it just falls short of the games it is 100% aping in almost every way. Enemy variety and level design, potentially the two biggest factors of this sub-genre's game play, are severely lacking in Nioh and what ultimately prevented me from finishing it. Once I fought my 40th Oni-boi in the 5th cave level I just lost interest.

 

[Phoenixmgs_v1legacy]

I?d rather not have lock-on act like sticky cover for you since that detracts from the flow of normal movement. I think it works better in games where you?re fighting in environments that are more or less arenas though. Same kinda goes for automatically strafing on block. Works better in more controlled environments where there?s no danger of making a wrong move. In these games I?d rather have the option of free movement and lock-on for combat-centric actions as it?s never been a big problem to me just flicking the stick if I want to target a different enemy. It?s supposed to default to the next closest but maybe for instance the one behind and to the right is causing more problems.

I don't normally have issues with movement in other games as the lock-on really only "procs" when you hit attack. God of War has movement issues because of the super heavy move assist in that game, but that's not at all a common problem across the genre. If block doesn't "switch" your movement then you can't say hold block and move back from an enemy without turning your back if you're not locked on. I never have any these issues in other combat action games that I do in From games.

- Dragonrot felt like a pointlessly punishing mechanic that is easily mitigated late game. That, and losing sen/XP felt like an unnecessary holdover from the Souls games.

I feel most of the Souls mechanics don't really work here like respawning enemies as well. I guess you need the respawning enemies so you can regain lost money/exp from dying, which really only has the player waste time doing some grinding to get stuff back. The whole buying of coin purses is only there to negate the loss of money. If From didn't create such problems, you wouldn't need solutions to such problems in the first place. Hell, whenever I clear the area of enemies before fighting the mini-boss, I quit out and upload my save to the cloud, and then reload that save because it actually takes less time.

I hated Nioh's loot system...
Truth be told, I really wanted to like Nioh, but I ended up never finishing it because I just hated the inventory system and got tired of looking at the inventory screen for half an hour every time I completed a level.

Loot systems are why I hardly ever play any RPGs anymore because all they do is waste your time in inventory management. If weapons didn't dictate damage, then loot systems would be fine, but you mainly switch out weapons not because you like the special bonuses attached but because you need the damage increases. It's fine if say I'm playing a rogue/ninja character and I'm looking for weapons that say increase sneak attack, critical, and poison damage. But when overall damage is the main thing that matters, you can't really make a "build" with your equipment because that level 5 dagger that adds 20% to criticals becomes useless in a few levels and you really just end up trying to find say a level 10 dagger with 20% to criticals, which hasn't changed the game one bit. Loot systems really only work in endgame for build purposes because you can then keep those weapons forever (until you find one that has a higher bonus than you currently have).

 

[CritialGaming]

So a bit of clarification I've learned about Dragonrot.

Dragonrot does NOT kill NPC's. Instead it merely prevents you from doing their questlines until you cure them of the dragonrot. Since this is a souls game in which npc quests are obscure anyway, this doesn't affect many players I feel. Especially when cure items are easy to get and use.

As a result I no longer feel this mechanic is punishing in anyway and is more of an inconvenience if anything.

 

[Fappy]

So a bit of clarification I've learned about Dragonrot.

Dragonrot does NOT kill NPC's. Instead it merely prevents you from doing their questlines until you cure them of the dragonrot. Since this is a souls game in which npc quests are obscure anyway, this doesn't affect many players I feel. Especially when cure items are easy to get and use.

As a result I no longer feel this mechanic is punishing in anyway and is more of an inconvenience if anything.

Yeah it has a lot less impact than initially implied, especially because NPC questlines are for the most part just window dressing in this game. You don't really get any important items from them and anything you would miss ends up in the charity box thing for a higher price. I don't even think it has any impact on getting any of the endings.

 

[CritialGaming]

So a bit of clarification I've learned about Dragonrot.

Dragonrot does NOT kill NPC's. Instead it merely prevents you from doing their questlines until you cure them of the dragonrot. Since this is a souls game in which npc quests are obscure anyway, this doesn't affect many players I feel. Especially when cure items are easy to get and use.

As a result I no longer feel this mechanic is punishing in anyway and is more of an inconvenience if anything.

Yeah it has a lot less impact than initially implied, especially because NPC questlines are for the most part just window dressing in this game. You don't really get any important items from them and anything you would miss ends up in the charity box thing for a higher price. I don't even think it has any impact on getting any of the endings.

I've seen streamers do a no death run and there isn't even an achievement for not dying or ever spreading any dragonrot. It's just a waste of a mechanic imo.

 

[CritialGaming]

I?d rather not have lock-on act like sticky cover for you since that detracts from the flow of normal movement. I think it works better in games where you?re fighting in environments that are more or less arenas though. Same kinda goes for automatically strafing on block. Works better in more controlled environments where there?s no danger of making a wrong move. In these games I?d rather have the option of free movement and lock-on for combat-centric actions as it?s never been a big problem to me just flicking the stick if I want to target a different enemy. It?s supposed to default to the next closest but maybe for instance the one behind and to the right is causing more problems.

I don't normally have issues with movement in other games as the lock-on really only "procs" when you hit attack. God of War has movement issues because of the super heavy move assist in that game, but that's not at all a common problem across the genre. If block doesn't "switch" your movement then you can't say hold block and move back from an enemy without turning your back if you're not locked on. I never have any these issues in other combat action games that I do in From games.

- Dragonrot felt like a pointlessly punishing mechanic that is easily mitigated late game. That, and losing sen/XP felt like an unnecessary holdover from the Souls games.

I feel most of the Souls mechanics don't really work here like respawning enemies as well. I guess you need the respawning enemies so you can regain lost money/exp from dying, which really only has the player waste time doing some grinding to get stuff back. The whole buying of coin purses is only there to negate the loss of money. If From didn't create such problems, you wouldn't need solutions to such problems in the first place. Hell, whenever I clear the area of enemies before fighting the mini-boss, I quit out and upload my save to the cloud, and then reload that save because it actually takes less time.

Isn?t there a once per day limit on that though still? I guess you could also put it on usb which can be used offline too.

 

[Fappy]

I?d rather not have lock-on act like sticky cover for you since that detracts from the flow of normal movement. I think it works better in games where you?re fighting in environments that are more or less arenas though. Same kinda goes for automatically strafing on block. Works better in more controlled environments where there?s no danger of making a wrong move. In these games I?d rather have the option of free movement and lock-on for combat-centric actions as it?s never been a big problem to me just flicking the stick if I want to target a different enemy. It?s supposed to default to the next closest but maybe for instance the one behind and to the right is causing more problems.

I don't normally have issues with movement in other games as the lock-on really only "procs" when you hit attack. God of War has movement issues because of the super heavy move assist in that game, but that's not at all a common problem across the genre. If block doesn't "switch" your movement then you can't say hold block and move back from an enemy without turning your back if you're not locked on. I never have any these issues in other combat action games that I do in From games.

- Dragonrot felt like a pointlessly punishing mechanic that is easily mitigated late game. That, and losing sen/XP felt like an unnecessary holdover from the Souls games.

I feel most of the Souls mechanics don't really work here like respawning enemies as well. I guess you need the respawning enemies so you can regain lost money/exp from dying, which really only has the player waste time doing some grinding to get stuff back. The whole buying of coin purses is only there to negate the loss of money. If From didn't create such problems, you wouldn't need solutions to such problems in the first place. Hell, whenever I clear the area of enemies before fighting the mini-boss, I quit out and upload my save to the cloud, and then reload that save because it actually takes less time.

Isn?t there a once per day limit on that though still? I guess you could also put it on usb which can be used offline too.

Not sure what platform he is on, but if Sekiro works like previous From games on PC you can change your save file to Read Only so that it prevents save overriding. If you get stuck on a boss you can make the file Read Only so that every time you load it loads to the last point the file saved before you changed the file status. Once the boss is dead you simply turn Read Only off.

 

[CritialGaming]

snip.

Save scumming doesn't matter because Dragonrot literally has no consequences, and is curable. Die all you want, bash your face until the boss falls over.

 

[Fappy]

snip.

Save scumming doesn't matter because Dragonrot literally has no consequences, and is curable. Die all you want, bash your face until the boss falls over.

The only advantage to save scumming is to cut down on farming items if you run low. Particularly for Spirit Emblems and Confetti.

I don't bother with save scumming these games since there are no permanent consequences.

 

[Phoenixmgs_v1legacy]

snip.

Save scumming doesn't matter because Dragonrot literally has no consequences, and is curable. Die all you want, bash your face until the boss falls over.

I don't care about the dying or dragonrot, I care about not having to go around killing the same dudes again so I can fight the mini-boss. And avoiding dying is pretty easy if you really want to without save scumming as you can just run back to an idol after resurrecting.

 

[Phoenixmgs_v1legacy]

Hell, whenever I clear the area of enemies before fighting the mini-boss, I quit out and upload my save to the cloud, and then reload that save because it actually takes less time.

Isn?t there a once per day limit on that though still? I guess you could also put it on usb which can be used offline too.

On PS4, there's no limits to copying saves back and forth from the cloud.

 

[CritialGaming]

snip.

Save scumming doesn't matter because Dragonrot literally has no consequences, and is curable. Die all you want, bash your face until the boss falls over.

I don't care about the dying or dragonrot, I care about not having to go around killing the same dudes again so I can fight the mini-boss. And avoiding dying is pretty easy if you really want to without save scumming as you can just run back to an idol after resurrecting.

Except when there are fog walls.

 

[EvilRoy]

Coming in late (after finishing the game), so these are more final impressions than first. Some very light spoilers ahead.

I know that is a long list of Cons but that is only because I tend to be more detailed with complaints, lol. Overall it is a fantastic game that gave me a healthy mixture of grief and joy. I would recommend it to anyone that can stomach the difficulty, as there are a lot of fantastic and awe inspiring moments.

Dang dude, you ripped through this thing. That's a pretty solid compliment on its own.

I'm still early in the game, but I find myself starved for the kind of DS boss that makes me pucker - difficulty is present and feels decent, but I want beautiful nonsensecrazy bosses - DS I got one or two usually within the first few hours. Any hope for this game, or is it samurai patrol time?

So beautiful nonsense bosses are few and far between, but they are present for sure. One of the main story bosses near the end, though a gimmick fight, is absolutely awesome. The other more Souls-y bosses I complained about earlier are actually really cool thematically, so you may actually enjoy them despite the jankiness.

That's a little disappointing, but I'm enjoying the game enough to keep going regardless. I'm even getting better. The bull wasn't as bad as the miniboss before, and I even won by doing something suicidal in real life.

 

[PsychedelicDiamond]

I'm having a pretty rough time with it. I guess my main problem is trying to play it like it's Dark Souls or Bloodborne but I just can't wrap my head around the combat. Mostly because I feel like everything is killing me far too quickly to actually learn it. But then, maybe it just doesn't play to my strengths. As far as I can tell it's all about immediately recognizing the enemies attack and then timing the parry correctly but I'm just far too slow for that.

And it annoys me because I reckon that it just needs to click for me but it doesn't.

 

[CritialGaming]

23 hours to completion. I have finished the game with the "good" ending and once the combat clicked, everything else kinda feel into place with the exception of a couple of insanely hard roadblocks. Ultimately, the game works, though it just does require you adjust to how it wants you to play it. No brute forcing this is ever gonna work, you have to master the combat or give up. No inbetween.

 

[Casual Shinji]

I'm having a pretty rough time with it. I guess my main problem is trying to play it like it's Dark Souls or Bloodborne but I just can't wrap my head around the combat. Mostly because I feel like everything is killing me far too quickly to actually learn it. But then, maybe it just doesn't play to my strengths. As far as I can tell it's all about immediately recognizing the enemies attack and then timing the parry correctly but I'm just far too slow for that.

And it annoys me because I reckon that it just needs to click for me but it doesn't.

You can actually just spam the block button to trigger deflects. I have the same problem with certain enemies where it's a bit hard to judge when an attack will land, and so I just kinda tap block as a precaution. It's not 100% accurate, but it's helped me out quite a bit. Same with the mikiri counter.