Sexsim: have the tables actually turned?

[Delsana]

To a degree, maybe.

 

[Vault101]

while I dont disagree with your points, the "98% of workplace fatalities are men" thing I think dosnt have much to do with sexism,

but more that men are more likely going to do jobs that are risky, such as working around machenery, contruction sites, dangerous chemicals (mining) and such where there is more room for error

unlike say an office where the biggest risk is impaling yourself with the stapler

Its more an issue of women sitting in nice cozy offices complaining that they make seventy five cents on the dollar while men go out working construction and mining coal risking their lives to earn that dollar. virtually every bit of the wage gap has been explained away based mostly on individuals actions as opposed to sexism, but we still hear about how sexist that is.
Largely what it boils down to is that men work more hours specialize more and take more in demand jobs resulting in poorer quality of life and higher risk of death while women earn less.
Where i work i have to do all the heavy lifting and jobs involving pesticides yet corporate policy dictates i CANT make more than my female co-workers because that would be sexist.

actually I dont agreee with your opening statement, what does "lower salary?" have to do with what industry somone chooses to work in? (and no Im not using the "lower salary as an argument in anyway)

that fact that certain industrys have risks and OHAS issues has nothing to do with women, or how lazy somone is/isnt

fact is...you do those jobs..yeah there are risks...and hell not everyone wants or is suited to do those jobs

its like almosts saying "yeah..well WOMEN dont do dangers manual labour, they are lazy!" then saying "they chouldnt be doing thease jobs..they CANT!" lets be honest here, I sure as hell wouldnt want to be working in such an environment (hell Im also really week) but that said some women I think do work in the mining industry over here (I think in manual roles as well, from memory anyway)

alot of woman and men would rather be in an office than do a job that requires heavy manual labour

 

[GraveeKing]

Thank God I'm clearly not the only one who realized how ridiculous the situation is getting!

Two words. Affirmative Action. Makes it so much easier for any woman to find a good job than a man looking for the same.

I'm going to make a start based on this, this is so damn true. Even in jobs where it may be appropriate from qualifications and references for a man to get employed a women will instead just to make it so called equal. I've had three friends tell me about being turned down for an office job because the employers all said something along the lines of 'We would but we currently need more women employed here because of-' and then the excuses came up - because it's more appropriate, more equal because they haven't got enough women there right now etc.

We were at 'equal rights' a long time ago. Now women have MORE rights than men and god damn the second a man even tries to claim it, every idiot nearby will yell at him for being sexist.
So if it's not true - explain to me why an Adult male is not allowed to sit down next to a child that is not his on a plane journey - but a women IS!
That's basically saying 'Men are all perverts and women aren't.' - That sir IS sexism!

Now don't get me wrong I've nothing against women as any average male on gods earth won't. But the fact is if you go up to a feminist and she yells more nonsense in your face than the guys you hear about from WestBoro Baptist Church. Then of course - if equal rights WERE in place, I think we should treat them like I'd treat a guy harassing me - telling them to piss off. But as soon as you don't want to hear then you're automatically sexist.
To cut a long story short - it's only sexist when a man does it. That's not bias at all is it?


The fact is people - by average, women are now better treated than men. In 90% of cases of divorce a kid will go to the mother. What if the dad has a better paying job? What if HE is more appropriate a parent in some of those cases?
I would understand even up to about 75% women but 90%! I'm sorry people but nowadays men are second to women. Although I'd love to see some evidence AGAINST such an argument - preferably something from Britain, where women have been stomping on the faces of men for quite a while now.

 

[Chelsea O'shea]

in some ways yes,in other no.....things are bent unevenly in either direction depending on area and job..i have experienced both sides myself so i have some insight to the matter.

 

[The_Amazing_G]

It actually kind of sucks to be a white male for quite a few reasons; I'm having a hard time in school because I can't get very many scholarships. Apparently, as I was recently told I am "very replaceable" in the workplace as well. Not that I think it's ok to be sexist or racist, but I thought the whole point was for equality?

 

[Chemical Alia]

I dont know...pregnacy can screw with your life in alot of unpleasant ways (mostly if it isnt planned)

You know what sucks? Shelling out $40 a month on birth control pills that you have to take at the same exact time every day during your adult life, that also make you put on 5-10 pounds. Pregnancy is nasty, but I can't think of something equally as annoying or expensive that guys have to do to avoid it as the pill.

Know what else sucks? How people complain about the pills so much but decide to keep taking them. You don't have to shell out the money and there are other ways to avoid pregnancy. Back on topic, I'm sick of both sides. I'm sick of men complaining about being overtaken (we're not) and I'm sick of women complaining about not having enough (you do). Also double standards, those can kiss my arse. Don't beg for equality then complain when I don't pay for the entire dinner or any of that crap. But, and there is no arguing this, women have it better in court. Now everyone stop saying everyone else is sexist and you want more.

You sound really angry. My complaint was in context of the pill and pregnancy. Try to stay out of court and dating shitty women and you should be just fine.

 

[Mr.Squishy]

Not at all.

Norway is supposed to be one of the most equalized countries in the world and we still can't manage to give everyone the same go at a job, and when a woman do get the job she still won't get paid as much as a man in the same position with the same education.

Why not? Fucked if i know

I thought we were pretty equal, though?

 

[internetzealot1]

Yes.

 

[AlmightyRa]

Being a man actually worked out for me. Teaching was traditionally a job for women, and the realization of how male role models are important for male children has made it easier for a man to get a teaching job than a woman

Actually no, teaching was never a womans job, even up until the war times, except in kindergarten roles. And by wars i mean WW1 and WW2. Woman took up the role as teachers while the men were away, and due to there being no men (or very few) to disagree, it gave 2 entire generations, the stereotype that only woman teach. It effectively brainwashed the entire world. Do some research, it's pretty trippy.

 

[Gralian]

To declare the "sexism tables have turned" is a bit of a gross oversight. It's not so much that the struggle for gender equality has been won or become inverted, it's that there's a greater realisation that the onus is always on the man to make things 'equal'. In the one or two cases there is male sexual descrimination, no-one would really think twice about it. This of course is because women have had a long history of being subject to a patriarchal society that is still a big role in many communities outside of western culture. In fact, it wasn't really that long ago that women were allowed the vote and it was no longer considered shocking for a woman to be a lawyer or doctor, so of course the onus is on men to always be the pro-active ones in making the effort for equality.

However i will refer you to a commonly spoken quote; "You ask me which is the most discriminated minority, and i will reply that i am a white heterosexual male, the most discriminated minority of all". Now this is, of course, not to be taken at face value. It's hyperbolic and while it's far from the truth, there is still a nugget of truth to be taken from it. For example, when a company is hiring or a prestigious university is looking at potential students to accept, they will select individuals who aren't "white heterosexual males" in order to fill quotas. This means they, in essence, get preferential treatment when it comes to candidate selection.

Regarding the sexism question, when participants must be selected for a board, or job position, or anything that involves selection a certain number of women will be selected above men in order to fulfill a certain equality criteria. Their opinion may be asked or paid closer attention to than their male colleagues solely by merit of them being female and ticking the equality box. Yes, women are (sometimes) paid less than men for doing the exact same job, but i don't think the glass ceiling is quite as low as it was twenty or even ten years ago.

 

[Partezan]

You sound really angry. My complaint was in context of the pill and pregnancy. Try to stay out of court and dating shitty women and you should be just fine.

Wow, really? try and stay out of court is your great advice? So your absolutely fine with men being treated unfairly in the eyes of the law but yet sit there complaining about biological differences (that are somehow men's fault in your feeble mind I guess) that no one can control. How about you die earlier and commit more suicide and we take the pill, moron.

 

[Furioso]

Being a man actually worked out for me. Teaching was traditionally a job for women, and the realization of how male role models are important for male children has made it easier for a man to get a teaching job than a woman

Actually no, teaching was never a womans job, even up until the war times, except in kindergarten roles. And by wars i mean WW1 and WW2. Woman took up the role as teachers while the men were away, and due to there being no men (or very few) to disagree, it gave 2 entire generations, the stereotype that only woman teach. It effectively brainwashed the entire world. Do some research, it's pretty trippy.

Yea I was wrong, what worries me is that was what I was taught

 

[PinkiePyro]

umm..
are you nuts although things are better things are far from equal we ladies still are worse off.

did you know there is pay discrimination typically men get payed more for every dollar a man gets payed a lady only gets payed 89 cents (this is a estimated average)

not to mention the body stereo-typing
and job discrimination

granted men wanting to go in to any nurturing type of job (teaching, nursing, etc) also face discrimination...


(just learned all this in anthropology class this week :3)

 

[Mobius_Hero]

Men have it worse off in most respects, sure you have pregnancy but there is a simple solution, dont get pregnant! I realize that women have some bad stuff to deal with, but there are ALL KINDS of recources for women that men cant access. I have never seen ANY kind of job that women dont get treated just as fairly as men, AND most of the time if there is a job that a woman doesnt get and a man does she will likely sue for sexism, and probably win. If a man gets screwed over its, oh yeah you go girl, (or some such) but if a woman gets screwed over its AW HELL NO! (or something akin to that).

Ill even go further to say that it is probably worse to be a White Male than it is to be just about anything else (as far as end results go). There is the United Negro College Fund, Women Scholarship Programs, American Indian College Fund. (lots of college stuff) And if there is a job opening it is probably going to go for whoever is not white or male first, just to keep away from law suits for racism or sexism...

Do you know how hard it is for a man to gain full custody of his children, when there is a living mother? Damn near impossible, My mother has given me several first hand accounts, (she is a social worker) and even she agrees that America is a tough place for a white male to get ahead in.

Now granted there is A LOT of racism and sexism out there, and blacks (or African Americans, or anything else you prefer to be called, I am white and southern I dont know many black people personally) and women do get treated poorly, however they (along with other races and nationalities) have more power to fight back and band together...

And as for men getting paid more, the only reason that MIGHT be true is because men will take jobs in factories and laboring and other physically demanding jobs that tend to pay higher wages that contemporary jobs. Women in general dont tend to get into that type of work...

I am not sure what kind of point I have made... I think I rambled... oh well... sorry if I offended anyone...

 

[AlmightyRa]

Being a man actually worked out for me. Teaching was traditionally a job for women, and the realization of how male role models are important for male children has made it easier for a man to get a teaching job than a woman

Actually no, teaching was never a womans job, even up until the war times, except in kindergarten roles. And by wars i mean WW1 and WW2. Woman took up the role as teachers while the men were away, and due to there being no men (or very few) to disagree, it gave 2 entire generations, the stereotype that only woman teach. It effectively brainwashed the entire world. Do some research, it's pretty trippy.

Yea I was wrong, what worries me is that was what I was taught

It's scary ae. My dad told me about this and i was like WTF so i did research. It's strange that events that happend such a short time ago have been wiped from memory pretty much.

 

[oppp7]

No, we aren't. Women still have to deal with shit that men don't have to, and you can't say the same about the opposite.

Ahh, i remember when i use to be ignorant enough to make statements like that one... i was six at the time.

- VAWA
- Rape Shield Laws that demonise a man in the court of public opinion
- Being expected to take responsibiltty for the lack of sexual agency of women
- Shroedingers Rapist
- The Family Court System (which demonises men)
- Divorce Laws (no fault divorce in specific) that benefit women exclusively to the detriment of men
- Affirmative Action hiring policies, even though women are worse employees across the board as a social group
- the lowering of physical entry standards just for women
- Praise for Mediocrity in areas which function as a Meritocracy for men.
- Thousands of women only health institutes, less then a handful of men only health institutes
- Women only social clubs & services are fine, but if there are many only clubs & services thats sexism (when was the last time you saw a "mens gym")
- 40 times more women only fedral scholarships, then men only fedral scholarships

An those are just the ones off the top of my head. Educate yourself before you comment.

I have no idea why everyone on the internet is so against feminism.

Because feminism is about the accumulation of gendered resources & powers at the detriment of 50% of the populaiton. I'm all for equality, but feminism is not a synonym for equality.

INSULTS! I KNEW something was missing from this thread...

I posted a list back on like the first page about why women would have it worse than men, so I'll try to respond to your crap now.
-Maybe it's just me, but I'd rather have the short end of the stick when being prosecuted for a crime than be the main victim of said crime
-See above
-Not really sure what that means...
-See above
-There's a movement to stop that [http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Fathers%27_rights_movement]
-Alimony's getting more available for men
-Source? I know neither of us have done much of that, but I want to see that one
-Balanced out by the high rate of rape in the military (and that I have no idea why anyone would want to join, but that's just my opinion I guess)
-You'll need to give examples of this
-Cancer research probably isn't going anywhere any time soon, so the amount of institutions for it is besides the point. Not sure about the others (maybe I should try using a source other than Wikipedia)
-When was the last time you felt you suffered from this?
-Ok, screw this, I've been looking for some kind of statistic on this for about 30 minutes (fucking Wikipedia). Could you just give me a source?

Try not to talk down to me when you reply.

 

[airrazor7]

Have the tables actually turned? Who knows? One-up-manship is encoded in human DNA so matter what the topic, when there is a debate over comparisons, people will always say they have the best or worst of something. Also, there are all types and kinds of people so as long as humans exists, there will be times when women have advantages and there will be times when men have advantages and some of those times will have no relevance with gender.

 

[Ulquiorra4sama]

Not at all.

Norway is supposed to be one of the most equalized countries in the world and we still can't manage to give everyone the same go at a job, and when a woman do get the job she still won't get paid as much as a man in the same position with the same education.

Why not? Fucked if i know

I thought we were pretty equal, though?

Eh, not exactly. It's pretty much socially acknowledged, but not financially. Though i can't imagine why it's like that when it seems like in a lot of the higher education employments the women work harder/more than their male counterparts in the same positions.

The whole system's pretty damn backwards.

 

[SillyBear]

Yes.

Edit your post dude. You'll get a warning for that.

 

[Ziadaine_v1legacy]

I wouldnt say the tables have turned, but lately it has become more obvious women are being the preferable over men in certain industries. A big example would be Retail work, most clothing stores will hire women over men. while a guy might have 4 years experience in retail in general etc, they're going to hire the woman for one reason: boobs.

I'm not trying to act like a pig, but its true. most surf shops in my area only hire woman because they have cleavage which "brings home the bacon", and even managers hire them for the eye candy for themselves.