Sexsim: have the tables actually turned?

[TheDooD]

Interestingly enough, there is a scholarly phenomenon of sexism, the basis of it is that schools are more geared towards girls, the sitting down, the calmness, the structure, while boys require something more physical and kinetic and thus there has become a gap in gender education leaning towards women.

Last I found, the percentages of Boys to Girls in colleges were roughly 35% (males) to 65%(females) but don't quote me on that, I don't have anything to back this up.

http://hereandnow.wbur.org/2011/09/12/boys-school-games Fascinating article

I'm not convinced by this "scholary phenomenon". It seems to make exactly the sort of generalizations that should be fought against. I do well in school, and think that physical/kinetic things can go eat cyanide, but I am also a boy. What does that make me? Most would call me an exception, but in a truelly equal world there would be no exceptions to the rule, because there wouldn't be a rule. Everyone would be treated as individuals and not lumped into groups depending on whether their genitals are an innie or an outie.

But I digress, to the question at hand, girls are doing better at education than boys. Provable fact, in Britain girls score higher in exams. I seriously doubt this is some kind of genetic thing that means girls naturally are better in school, I suspect that something in society is holding boys back.

I remember a survey (and can't bring it to hand, so this point is a bit shit but hold with me) that asked boys and girls in 2nd or 3rd grade if boys or girls were better. A lot of boys said girls were better, not so many girls said boys were better. What is it in society that is telling boys that girls are better?

I reckon' if we find that we find the reason why girls are outperforming boys. A general rule in education is, the more encouraged you are, the better you do. What is encouraging the girls that isn't encouraging boys? (the answer is probably society, but that's a bit general.

Boys learn differently then girls, hell all my male friends that I knew when they were younger learned like me through trail and error. Also through mimicry and physical mediums. Overall a very hands on and active teaching style which at times can get out of control. We all know schools want total control and that's why they normally shy away from those effective learning styles for something more suited to a girl's learning style which is easier to control. In middle school all the guys I knew including myself we're bored shitless because we're all in the same core classes and gym by sheer horrible luck. We normally acted out main with paperball fights and crude humor mainly to break up the drone of the class.

 

[Kimjira19]

Two words. Affirmative Action. Makes it so much easier for any woman to find a good job than a man looking for the same.

Not sure how true that^^^ is. But I do know that on average women get paid $0.70 for every $1.00 made by a male counterpart doing the same work. While I feel that overall things are evening out for both genders, there are factions on both sides that can be virulently sexist. And there will probably always be people who are on the fringes shouting nonsense and making everyone tense and angry. We just need to learn to tune them out and treat each other with the respect we all know {deep down} others deserve.

 

[Mobius_Hero]

RT-Medic-with-shotgun, Thank you, you are a very smart person! And also much more coherent than me. It is true that women have some bs handed to them but so what so does everyone. And socially men have it quite a bit worse off.

 

[inquisiti0n]

It's a real shame RT-Medic's post wasn't more tactful because he is completely right.

Look at 3rd wave feminism these days, spouting bullshit like "anyone against abortion is against women!" not realizing that the women who started the feminist movement were against such things.

And omfg, the wage gap myth...

Not sure how true that^^^ is. But I do know that on average women get paid $0.70 for every $1.00 made by a male counterpart doing the same work. While I feel that overall things are evening out for both genders, there are factions on both sides that can be virulently sexist. And there will probably always be people who are on the fringes shouting nonsense and making everyone tense and angry. We just need to learn to tune them out and treat each other with the respect we all know {deep down} others deserve.

that 70 cents nonsense needs to stop. It has been debunked time and time again. There are a huge list of reasons why women make what they do, and no it isn't sexism. There might be some sexist bosses here and there, but on the whole, wage gap is a myth in western society. And when you consider things like affirmative action (which for some fucked up reason, helps white woman just as much, if not more, than black men), it's women who have unfair advantages in terms of employment.


Anyways, reasons why women make less, broken up into subsections:

For the average woman compared to the average man:
- This one is ridiculous to even compare, considering the millions of housewives who sit at home with no income. Of course the average woman doesn't make the same as the average man, it would be mathematically impossible.

For the average employed woman compared to the average employed men:
- Woman generally go into easier, lower paying professions. Not many women in a computer science/engineering/higher level math/physics classroom. This is also the reason why women have higher GPAs in university. A 4.0 in electrical engineering =/= a 4.0 in sociology.

For the average employed woman compared to the average employed man IN THE SAME JOB POSITION:
- Women are statistically proven to work fewer hours, and particularly fewer overtime hours. They also demand more flexible hours than male employees on average.
- Women, due to their biological "risk-averse" nature, are less likely to ask for promotions. This isn't really unfair at all, since risk-averse isn't inherently a bad thing, but it just so happens to kinda screw them over in this particular category.
- Maternity leave. These research studies regarding wage gap are honestly very poorly done, especially when they're done by biased women's groups carrying a pre-conceived agenda. Many of these studies include women who are on maternity leave (who obviously aren't being paid the same) as fully working employees.


And a few other reasons you'll be sure to find if you google it.

 

[cthulhuspawn82]

I had a college class where the teacher gave extra credit to anyone who attended a Red Dress Dinner, obliviously a women only event. One of the male students asked if that was sexist and she responded "Boo Hoo, it sucks to be a white man in America"

 

[inquisiti0n]

"ignoring the fact that men as a collective have fought, bled, and died by the million to secure humanity's future"

You had me until this sentence.

Men as a collective are not owed anything due to the actions of cavemen. Just as we do not owe anything because of people like Hitler, or Genghis Khan.

Actions of cavemen?

Do you know how many armed conflicts are going on right now?

I agree it would be wrong for the average man to act like he personally contributed to everything men as a whole have sacrificed for society, but there's nothing wrong with acknowledging that men are the ones who are expected to fight for their country.

 

[oppp7]

more prone to receiving violence (rape, spousal abuse...)

This one's the opposite

http://bjs.ojp.usdoj.gov/content/glance/vsx2.cfm

Already been over the fact that I was wrong about the spousal abuse being more common (although women are more likely to be injured), although rape is still more likely for women.

No, we aren't. Women still have to deal with shit that men don't have to, and you can't say the same about the opposite.

The Draft
Being constantly portrayed as thoughtless brutes who only care about sex.

Just off the top of my head.

Last time I checked the draft wasn't around anymore. And I've seen more character tropes about guys than girls.

 

[Ickorus]

I'd say generally we have equality now but men are still demonised a lot in the media which needs to stop.

I mean equality by this standard: Some businesses treat women badly the same way others treat men badly.

 

[oppp7]

Father Time:
Men still have to register for selective service, women do not and they can still use it.

Oh and the other one you're just moving the goalposts.

Ohhhhkay, Escapist is currently having problems apparently...

Ya, in times of emergency. The chances of that are moderately slim. And considering feminist groups have tried to get them to add girls, I think if they were deperate enough to reinstate the draft (likely political suicide if not for a very good reason) I doubt it would be long before they did add women.

I can think of tons of male characters that aren't sex-crazed brutes.

I guess I should clarify as women are much more likely to be targeted for certain types of violence (rape), and in the case of spousal abuse they're more likely to be injured.

 

[BRex21]

while I dont disagree with your points, the "98% of workplace fatalities are men" thing I think dosnt have much to do with sexism,

but more that men are more likely going to do jobs that are risky, such as working around machenery, contruction sites, dangerous chemicals (mining) and such where there is more room for error

unlike say an office where the biggest risk is impaling yourself with the stapler

Its more an issue of women sitting in nice cozy offices complaining that they make seventy five cents on the dollar while men go out working construction and mining coal risking their lives to earn that dollar. virtually every bit of the wage gap has been explained away based mostly on individuals actions as opposed to sexism, but we still hear about how sexist that is.
Largely what it boils down to is that men work more hours specialize more and take more in demand jobs resulting in poorer quality of life and higher risk of death while women earn less.
Where i work i have to do all the heavy lifting and jobs involving pesticides yet corporate policy dictates i CANT make more than my female co-workers because that would be sexist.

actually I dont agreee with your opening statement, what does "lower salary?" have to do with what industry somone chooses to work in? (and no Im not using the "lower salary as an argument in anyway)

that fact that certain industrys have risks and OHAS issues has nothing to do with women, or how lazy somone is/isnt

fact is...you do those jobs..yeah there are risks...and hell not everyone wants or is suited to do those jobs

its like almosts saying "yeah..well WOMEN dont do dangers manual labour, they are lazy!" then saying "they chouldnt be doing thease jobs..they CANT!" lets be honest here, I sure as hell wouldnt want to be working in such an environment (hell Im also really week) but that said some women I think do work in the mining industry over here (I think in manual roles as well, from memory anyway)

alot of woman and men would rather be in an office than do a job that requires heavy manual labour

YOU may have not brought money into it DIRECTLY, but the reason men make up 98% of workplace deaths is in fact THE REASON men make more than women disputing one specifically involves the other. There is a strong debate saying women should earn as much as men despite no push to get women into these high risk positions and People are perfectly willing to argue that women are not represented at the top but virtually no one wants them to take up equal positions at the bottom. Women have essentially taken a place as a protected class with better access to welfare, low income housing and support, and have less expected of them. With affirmative action allowing them special access to these comfortable office jobs while if men want to eat they have to take what they can get.
Oh and I doubt there are any women in the mining industry where you live, doing the physical aspect of it anyway, most countries specifically outlaw the use of women in mines if they have laws against child labour.

 

[The Harkinator]

I think there has been ... overcompensation.

Here in the UK we have a politician called Harriet Harman who once said 'In the job of Prime Minister and Deputy Prime Minister at least one of those jobs should be held by a woman.'

That basically meant that rather than having two jobs filled by the most able candidates one should include a woman because there should be a woman there. Not because she may have the ability to fulfill one of those roles through aptitude for an important, stress filled and difficult job but because of gender.

I believe this comment was demeaning to both genders, if it was put into practice it would be basically telling men that no matter how able they may be, only one job can be held by a man because hes a man, it also makes a man in either position a villain. He's keeping back the progress of equality. Essentially denying someone a job because of their gender.

The comment also demeans women because it suggests that they would get the job because of their gender rather than their ability. Don't tell someone that they're getting a job because of their gender because thats demeaning to everyone envolved.

 

[Superhyperactiveman]

It's a bit of both to be honest. Society is making a concerted effort to secure equality between the sexes, and things are getting better for women overall. The problem is that this is still a fairly young movement, in the grand scheme of things, and so we're still going through a lot of growing pains. A lot of BS is occurring on all sides of the issue, in addition to the concerted efforts for good, and many policies that just punish men for the sake of manhood are slipping through the cracks. eventually, we'll get our act together and men and women will be totally equal, but until then, each gender is going to have advantages that the other doesn't, and each is going to focus more on the advantages that the other has and feel left out (this just being how people are.)

 

[Pyramid Head]

Things have improved, but the idea that men are worse off in todays society is largely a fucking lie spun by egotistical morons with an entitlement complex who like to claim they're being victimized because no one offered to suck them off.

This is something i've been seeing a lot of lately though. For some reason *CoughFOXNEWSTEAPARTYcough* i've been seeing a lot of people like that, people who keep stating they're being oppressed when they are merely inconvenienced. It gets especially annoying with white sup-- NATIONALISTS who keep claiming there's a Caucasian genocide going on because the 14th amendment doesn't let them curb stomp Hispanics with impunity.

Here's the truth. Things still aren't fair in the work place, things like affirmative action are still necessary measures, and people who claim otherwise more often than not are merely whiny bitches who wouldn't know hardship if it castrated them. Maybe there are examples where things aren't fair for a member of the majority ethnicity in this country, but it's nowhere near as pandemic as the aforementioned whiny bitches claim.

 

[LarenzoAOG]

No, we aren't. Women still have to deal with shit that men don't have to, and you can't say the same about the opposite.

The Draft. So there.

OT: The problem is how people view gender roles and gender differences.

Aside from given birth a man can do anything a woman can, and besides cock-slapping things a woman can do anything a man can do. Gender equality in the economy and goverment is pretty much equal where I live, the U.S., with women actually having a bit of an edge do to affirmative action.

Generally, people veiw women as less capable than men, that's unfortunate and dumb but the fact is that all around the word people think it, however besides personal descrimination, men and women are on equal footing in the Estada Unidos.

 

[Chemical Alia]

No, we aren't. Women still have to deal with shit that men don't have to, and you can't say the same about the opposite.

The Draft. So there.

OT: The problem is how people view gender roles and gender differences.

Aside from given birth a man can do anything a woman can, and besides cock-slapping things a woman can do anything a man can do. Gender equality in the economy and goverment is pretty much equal where I live, the U.S., with women actually having a bit of an edge do to affirmative action.

Generally, people veiw women as less capable than men, that's unfortunate and dumb but the fact is that all around the word people think it, however besides personal descrimination, men and women are on equal footing in the Estada Unidos.

It's not really womens' fault that they aren't eligible for the draft. I'm personally all for it and find it insulting that everyone isn't expected to sign up if men are.

 

[LarenzoAOG]

No, we aren't. Women still have to deal with shit that men don't have to, and you can't say the same about the opposite.

The Draft. So there.

OT: The problem is how people view gender roles and gender differences.

Aside from given birth a man can do anything a woman can, and besides cock-slapping things a woman can do anything a man can do. Gender equality in the economy and goverment is pretty much equal where I live, the U.S., with women actually having a bit of an edge do to affirmative action.

Generally, people veiw women as less capable than men, that's unfortunate and dumb but the fact is that all around the word people think it, however besides personal descrimination, men and women are on equal footing in the Estada Unidos.

It's not really womens' fault that they aren't eligible for the draft. I'm personally all for it and find it insulting that everyone isn't expected to sign up if men are.

I agree, if we have to have compulsory service we should have it for everyone, and I just bought it up because the poster I quoted said that their is nothing men have to deal with that women don't, and at least in my country that is wrong.

 

[Vault101]

while I dont disagree with your points, the "98% of workplace fatalities are men" thing I think dosnt have much to do with sexism,

but more that men are more likely going to do jobs that are risky, such as working around machenery, contruction sites, dangerous chemicals (mining) and such where there is more room for error

unlike say an office where the biggest risk is impaling yourself with the stapler

Its more an issue of women sitting in nice cozy offices complaining that they make seventy five cents on the dollar while men go out working construction and mining coal risking their lives to earn that dollar. virtually every bit of the wage gap has been explained away based mostly on individuals actions as opposed to sexism, but we still hear about how sexist that is.
Largely what it boils down to is that men work more hours specialize more and take more in demand jobs resulting in poorer quality of life and higher risk of death while women earn less.
Where i work i have to do all the heavy lifting and jobs involving pesticides yet corporate policy dictates i CANT make more than my female co-workers because that would be sexist.

actually I dont agreee with your opening statement, what does "lower salary?" have to do with what industry somone chooses to work in? (and no Im not using the "lower salary as an argument in anyway)

that fact that certain industrys have risks and OHAS issues has nothing to do with women, or how lazy somone is/isnt

fact is...you do those jobs..yeah there are risks...and hell not everyone wants or is suited to do those jobs

its like almosts saying "yeah..well WOMEN dont do dangers manual labour, they are lazy!" then saying "they chouldnt be doing thease jobs..they CANT!" lets be honest here, I sure as hell wouldnt want to be working in such an environment (hell Im also really week) but that said some women I think do work in the mining industry over here (I think in manual roles as well, from memory anyway)

alot of woman and men would rather be in an office than do a job that requires heavy manual labour

YOU may have not brought money into it DIRECTLY, but the reason men make up 98% of workplace deaths is in fact THE REASON men make more than women disputing one specifically involves the other. There is a strong debate saying women should earn as much as men despite no push to get women into these high risk positions and People are perfectly willing to argue that women are not represented at the top but virtually no one wants them to take up equal positions at the bottom. Women have essentially taken a place as a protected class with better access to welfare, low income housing and support, and have less expected of them. With affirmative action allowing them special access to these comfortable office jobs while if men want to eat they have to take what they can get.
Oh and I doubt there are any women in the mining industry where you live, doing the physical aspect of it anyway, most countries specifically outlaw the use of women in mines if they have laws against child labour.

? women working and child labour are not the same thing...

plus Im not from some 3rd world country where they have to physically mine with shovels and pickaxes,

I imangine there may be a few women working in the industry, doing what im not sure, you can make insane amounts of money..even just for driving trucks

 

[oppp7]

No, we aren't. Women still have to deal with shit that men don't have to, and you can't say the same about the opposite.

The Draft. So there.

OT: The problem is how people view gender roles and gender differences.

Aside from given birth a man can do anything a woman can, and besides cock-slapping things a woman can do anything a man can do. Gender equality in the economy and goverment is pretty much equal where I live, the U.S., with women actually having a bit of an edge do to affirmative action.

Generally, people veiw women as less capable than men, that's unfortunate and dumb but the fact is that all around the word people think it, however besides personal descrimination, men and women are on equal footing in the Estada Unidos.

"Ya, in times of emergency. The chances of that are moderately slim. And considering feminist groups have tried to get them to add girls, I think if they were deperate enough to reinstate the draft (likely political suicide if not for a very good reason) I doubt it would be long before they did add women."

That was from a prvious post of mine, so I'm gonna go ahead and erase what you quoted so people stop saying the same thing. Not that it's you guys' fault, I mean, I don't expect you guys to wade through the 11 pages this thing has lasted. Just tired of this thread (and that post was misleading anyways, I meant to put "to the same degree" after that sentence but didn't want it getting cluttered (as I also already said).

 

[LarenzoAOG]

No, we aren't. Women still have to deal with shit that men don't have to, and you can't say the same about the opposite.

The Draft. So there.

OT: The problem is how people view gender roles and gender differences.

Aside from given birth a man can do anything a woman can, and besides cock-slapping things a woman can do anything a man can do. Gender equality in the economy and goverment is pretty much equal where I live, the U.S., with women actually having a bit of an edge do to affirmative action.

Generally, people veiw women as less capable than men, that's unfortunate and dumb but the fact is that all around the word people think it, however besides personal descrimination, men and women are on equal footing in the Estada Unidos.

"Ya, in times of emergency. The chances of that are moderately slim. And considering feminist groups have tried to get them to add girls, I think if they were deperate enough to reinstate the draft (likely political suicide if not for a very good reason) I doubt it would be long before they did add women."

That was from a prvious post of mine, so I'm gonna go ahead and erase what you quoted so people stop saying the same thing. Not that it's you guys' fault, I mean, I don't expect you guys to wade through the 11 pages this thing has lasted. Just tired of this thread (and that post was misleading anyways, I meant to put "to the same degree" after that sentence but didn't want it getting cluttered (as I also already said).

Well alrighty then.

 

[BRex21]

? women working and child labour are not the same thing...

NO... there not the same, however most countires that have child labor laws, like first world nations, have laws that specifically protect women if they are doing a dangerous job. Women can work for a mining company, they can be accountants, some countries let them be machine operators but most physical jobs are legally outside of what an employer can ask.

plus Im not from some 3rd world country where they have to physically mine with shovels and pickaxes,

Ironically if you WERE there would be a much higher likelihood that women could work in a mine. As i said previously, In the first world companies legally CANT ask them to dangerous work.

I imangine there may be a few women working in the industry, doing what im not sure, you can make insane amounts of money..even just for driving trucks

There is a serious problem with basing your view of the world on your imagination.