MCerberus said:
A couple of things, if you look at that "Controversy", the outfits were noticeable, because they were designed to be. When a reviewer has to say "Come on, seriously?", then it's fair game to knock off points. But it became more than that, because of course it has to.
If you don't like the aesthetics, it's fair game. However, neither review made it a centerpiece and there's no evidence that it lost them points. The former gamers routinely reinforce until it's used against something they actually like.
Second, correct me if I'm wrong, but isn't "form fitting" modern armor "it fits women"? The US military in particular has a problem where pretty much all of its stock is based off a narrow range of male dimensions, making it impractical but "better than nothing" for female soldiers to wear.
The "form fitting" armour I was referring to has boob contours, just not as ridiculous as the "practical" armour in question. However, my understanding is that armour has been improved for women. I'm not sure specifically about military, but I've got friends in law enforcement.
But it's not so much "better than nothing," as it still provides significant protection. It's "a lot better than nothing."
thaluikhain said:
There's a lot of that regarding the burqa itself.
In some places, women are forced to wear the burqa, regardless of what they might choose. Many people object to this, and many of those who do demand that women be forced not to wear it instead, regardless of what they might choose.
There is something of a problem there.
Within the context of the accusations that we were putting teh wimminz in teh berkehz, I figured it was pretty clear which situation we were talking about. I have absolutely no issue with a woman who chooses to wear a burka, though I do question it on some level. Still, I question a lot of things without opposing them, and I can respect the right or choice without agreeing with it.
If we're talking about letting women choose whether they wear burkas, there's no relevance to the original bit.
Dead Raen said:
Oh no. Skyrim may very well still be boring WITH sexy armor. It's not the sexy armor that makes it not boring, it's the addition of more content. I make it less boring for me with sexy armor (among new houses, quest lines, followers, enemies, and many, many, many other things). Perhaps I should have more accurately defined that my post was of my preference alone.
Fair enough. I appreciate the clarification.
mecegirl said:
It gets really touchy when the subject intersects with Middle Eastern women and their choice to cover themselves. By all means forcing the burka on anyone is wrong, but that has little to do with why some women choose to wear say a hijab. Some western feminists can be very pushy with their beliefs, when really all that matters is if an individual has free choice to follow their own path. So to say that they have to bare themselves in order to be truly liberated is no different than saying that one has to always be covered. Just like a woman who chooses to wait until marriage to have sex is just as "sexually liberated" as a woman who has chosen to have multiple partners.
And I agree. I covered part of this in my response above, but my stance is one of self-determination. A woman who chooses to be a housewife is as legit as a woman who chooses to be a lawyer. A woman who chooses to wear a burka is as legit as one who doesn't. And a decent chunk of feminists are straight white middle classed women who are only concerned about their straight white middle class sensibilities.
There is also an issue that I think muddies the water, and it's that a lot of times it's hard to tell choice from external pressure. After the Civil War, you still had many American blacks who were uncomfortable being free. Not only were they used to slavery, but they received a huge amount of negative reaction in the south. And sometimes the north. Cultural pressures and predispositions don't dissolve overnight. And we're still seeing that with Islam. Religion and culture can both be used as a form of emotional abuse, which we see play out. In the same sense a domestic abuse victim might choose to stay with their partner, so might someone cleave to the burka. And I think some folks pick up on that in their crusade to wipe it out. But while I identify it as an issue, I'm not entirely sure how to address it.
However, I'm taking this from the accusation that wanting our characters to wear clothes is the same as putting women in burkas. Remember, she said we're no different than those who were trying to FORCE (emphasis mine) women to wear burkas. And that comparison isn't cool.
In this case though we aren't even really talking about what a woman would wear in everyday life, but what she would wear to do a specific task. And preferring one type of fantasy armor over another is just a preference. Some people may prefer a Conan type of world and the armor that comes with it. Others may prefer a Aragorn type of world and the armor that comes with it. It's no different from preferring a dystopian future to a utopian future. It's only an issue because content creators will create an Aragon type of world and only have the women dress like they come from a Conan type of world(the same would work for the opposite situation but we never see the opposite situation). As if we aren't supposed to notice the difference and question why she is dressed for the wrong climate and type of combat. Unless she is a recent immigrant she would adhere to whatever armoring conventions are common in her culture. Not wear what the men wear but with strategically placed cutouts.
Or band-aids.
But the issue of preference is why I like games whether clothing is either stat neutral or where you can pick your attire and then slot gems/equipment/whatever to give it states. That way, you can dress your character your way, I can dress mine my way, and everyone else can dress their characters how they want. Someone who wants "lore" or "region" appropriate can choose that. Someone who wants fanservice or empowerment fantasy can have that.
I honestly feel like everyone wins with this situation.
Except maybe the developers, who might have to program more options.
