Sexy Shelob...why? Just why?

[Jonbodhi]

I can't believe I'm only the second poster to approve of this because I HATE SPIDERS!!

Gods, every video game has them and they give me a near-terminal case of the willies!! I almost stopped playing Bloodborne at the spider level. Why are video games so in love with these awful things? And Jim's video really didn't help. I know he warned us, but the close-up spider faces were just gratuitous.

Sorry, Tolkien purists. I'd like to feel your pain, but I'm too busy feeling my own.

BTW, could someone explain the bitter resentment of Gollum's presence in the first game? I read LOTR, and it establishes that Gollum was in Mordor and that much of his time was unaccounted for. In fact, the entire game is set in the period between Hobbit and LOTR, so I didn't see it as violating canon, but I'm no Tolkien scholar.

 

[Rahkshi500]

Listen, I know I've just reduced the low amount of friends I have on this website even lower for bringing up an ess-jay-double u topic, but seriously guys, this is getting stupid.

Hey, I'm still here!

Granted, I hardly appear here on the Escapist much during this past year, but doesn't mean I don't agree with you. Of course, nothing wrong with sexy or conventionally attractive women in itself. Problem is that, like you said, they're the norm rather than part of a melting pot of otherwise diverse, variety of women. And now it almost seems like any that end up being the exception are starting to be assimilated into the norm. If there's one thing I've learned from this is putting more effort to have less conventionally attractive female characters in my own stories.

 

[Erttheking]

I guess it says most people who play the game (adolescent males) would relate more to the sexy version than the spider version.

They could've at least done a hybrid but that would kinda be ripping off

Spoiler: this

This is the second time I've asked this, why do we need an emotional connection to the spawn of the Tolkien version of a Lovecraftian horror? Her mother was so viciously dedicating to eating absolutely everything that when she ran out of things to eat, she ate herself. Why would anyone want to relate to her? She's a horrific monster that Sauron himself couldn't fully control. Talion making an alliance with her is, at the very best, making an alliance with a lesser evil, if not an outright Faustian bargain. None of this adds up with anything.

 

[Avnger]

I guess it says most people who play the game (adolescent males) would relate more to the sexy version than the spider version.

They could've at least done a hybrid but that would kinda be ripping off

Spoiler: this

This is the second time I've asked this, why do we need an emotional connection to the spawn of the Tolkien version of a Lovecraftian horror? Her mother was so viciously dedicating to eating absolutely everything that when she ran out of things to eat, she ate herself. Why would anyone want to relate to her? She's a horrific monster that Sauron himself couldn't fully control. Talion making an alliance with her is, at the very best, making an alliance with a lesser evil, if not an outright Faustian bargain. None of this adds up with anything.

Well this is rather simple. It's because men and boys can't possibly understand or feel engaged with a game if there's not a nice pair of tits and body on a women they want to fuck. Thank god those dirty man-hating feminists aren't in charge; who knows what kind of insults to men they would force into the game.

 

[TheMysteriousGX]

Ok, so they turned a giant monster spider into a dark sexy lady. Whatever, stupid as it is, I'll chalk it up to 'game needs titties'.

But why did they go with that design? It's so ... bland. Nothing about it evokes 'spider'. In fact, it evokes nothing at all beyond 'this character is not a good guy'. Couldn't they have put in some indication about her true nature, aside from the little spider crawling along her arm? Anything at all? Ok, just some throwing stuff at the wall:

- Give her 6 human arms, bringing her total limbs up to 8.
- Let a bunch of spider legs come from behind her back. Alternately, make it ornaments that simply resemble spider legs.
- Make her clothing look like spider webbing
- Give her a crown adorned with gems shaped like human eyes, but arrayed like a set of spider eyes. Makes the gems colored like her human eyes (or other way around).
- Not enough? Just make her fucking Lolth. Monstrous spider from the abdomen down, but sexy lady bits up top. You might even get away with showing nips this way.

Right? I mean, people describe this as a"dark goth woman", but every goth lady I've every hung out with has more adornment that huShelob. Usually more spider imagery as well.

 

[Erttheking]

American pop culture in a nutshell:

Spoiler

"Whoa...awesome!!"

Spoiler

"Whoa...OMG/lame/cliche/disgusting cover your eyes junior!!"

 

[Erttheking]

American pop culture in a nutshell:

Spoiler

"Whoa...awesome!!"

Spoiler

"Whoa...OMG/lame/cliche/disgusting cover your eyes junior!!"

Oh for fuck's sake. Are you just ignoring my point to play victim? Of course you are. People can actually do nuance with violence in gaming. They struggle to do anything with sex other than "LOOK! TITS!" IE, the same thing that they're doing in this game.

 

[springheeljack]

Okay the thing that people don't realize is that this has already been done before in a little movie based on a little story called Beowulf. Do you remember that? I didn't until just now because it came out in 2007 and that's over 10 years ago.
Anyway they did the exact same thing they are trying to do to Shelob. What if instead of making Grendel's mother a monster let's instead just make her into a sexy seductress played by Angelina Jolie. It was a dumb choice when they did that in 2007 and it's still a dumb idea now.

It's kind of like if they took Smaug the dragon and made him into some buff dude with scales and maybe a few horns on his head.

 

[nomotog_v1legacy]

Ok, so they turned a giant monster spider into a dark sexy lady. Whatever, stupid as it is, I'll chalk it up to 'game needs titties'.

But why did they go with that design? It's so ... bland. Nothing about it evokes 'spider'. In fact, it evokes nothing at all beyond 'this character is not a good guy'. Couldn't they have put in some indication about her true nature, aside from the little spider crawling along her arm? Anything at all? Ok, just some throwing stuff at the wall:

- Give her 6 human arms, bringing her total limbs up to 8.
- Let a bunch of spider legs come from behind her back. Alternately, make it ornaments that simply resemble spider legs.
- Make her clothing look like spider webbing
- Give her a crown adorned with gems shaped like human eyes, but arrayed like a set of spider eyes. Makes the gems colored like her human eyes (or other way around).
- Not enough? Just make her fucking Lolth. Monstrous spider from the abdomen down, but sexy lady bits up top. You might even get away with showing nips this way.

Well I would rather the spider be a spider, but I do like that her design isn't over loaded with spider bits. I like simple and I think trying to split the difference on this would just look bad.

 

[Dalisclock]

Ok, so they turned a giant monster spider into a dark sexy lady. Whatever, stupid as it is, I'll chalk it up to 'game needs titties'.

But why did they go with that design? It's so ... bland. Nothing about it evokes 'spider'. In fact, it evokes nothing at all beyond 'this character is not a good guy'. Couldn't they have put in some indication about her true nature, aside from the little spider crawling along her arm? Anything at all? Ok, just some throwing stuff at the wall:

- Give her 6 human arms, bringing her total limbs up to 8.
- Let a bunch of spider legs come from behind her back. Alternately, make it ornaments that simply resemble spider legs.
- Make her clothing look like spider webbing
- Give her a crown adorned with gems shaped like human eyes, but arrayed like a set of spider eyes. Makes the gems colored like her human eyes (or other way around).
- Not enough? Just make her fucking Lolth. Monstrous spider from the abdomen down, but sexy lady bits up top. You might even get away with showing nips this way.

For some reason, I keep thinking of The Stalk from SAGA. Spider? Check. Lady? Check. Sexy? Probably as close as a spider lady could be.

 

[Neverhoodian]

Speaking as someone critical of both SJWs and Red pillers, I have to agree wholeheartedly with Jim on this one. I'd much rather have Shelob the monstrous spider as a potentially treacherous ally than "generic goth chick #5,431." It would fit better thematically anyway, what with Talion sacrificing his principles and increasingly becoming the very monster he's fighting against.

In any case, the lootboxes and microtransactions are enough at this point to dissuade me from buying it, and this is coming from someone who loved Shadow of Mordor.

Who wants to fuck a spider?

Oh you sweet innocent child...

That one picture Jim cuts to in the video a few times? The creepy as fuck one depicting a live action human-spider hybrid? That's from a porno, and she's the main attraction. It's one of the many "lose your faith in humanity for the day" tidbits I learned when I still read Cracked a handful of years ago.

 

[RaikuFA]

Speaking as someone critical of both SJWs and Red pillers, I have to agree wholeheartedly with Jim on this one. I'd much rather have Shelob the monstrous spider as a potentially treacherous ally than "generic goth chick #5,431." It would fit better thematically anyway, what with Talion sacrificing his principles and increasingly becoming the very monster he's fighting against.

In any case, the lootboxes and microtransactions are enough at this point to dissuade me from buying it, and this is coming from someone who loved Shadow of Mordor.

Who wants to fuck a spider?

Oh you sweet innocent child...

That one picture Jim cuts to in the video a few times? The creepy as fuck one depicting a live action human-spider hybrid? That's from a porno, and she's the main attraction. It's one of the many "lose your faith in humanity for the day" tidbits I learned when I still read Cracked a handful of years ago.

I've read hentai, I've seen some fucked up shit.

 

[Chimpzy_v1legacy]

Well I would rather the spider be a spider, but I do like that her design isn't over loaded with spider bits. I like simple and I think trying to split the difference on this would just look bad.

The half-woman, half spider example was just an extreme. I'd be happy with just a single small ornamentation. Just ... anything to give the dull design they have now a little bit of spice.

 

[Zykon TheLich_v1legacy]

So, is this like a Dungeons and Dragons Drider type thing or just a woman that is vaguely spider themed?

 

[TheMysteriousGX]

So, is this like a Dungeons and Dragons Drider type thing or just a woman that is vaguely spider themed?

Generic goth woman wearing purple.

Which is an oddly specific trope: why's purple associated with spider-themed ladies?

 

[SweetShark]

Meh, just a normal tranformed human body...
A little more creative with her wouldn't be harmful.
I would prefer something like the spider woman in the movie "Enemy", with different kind of cosmetics which are spider related, not just butt-naked.

 

[SweetShark]

So, is this like a Dungeons and Dragons Drider type thing or just a woman that is vaguely spider themed?

Generic goth woman wearing purple.



Which is an oddly specific trope: why's purple associated with spider-themed ladies?

Because the developers played Undertale.

 

[Zykon TheLich_v1legacy]

Generic goth woman wearing purple.

Which is an oddly specific trope: why's purple associated with spider-themed ladies?

Maybe it's DnD Drow thing (do an image search, lots of black/purple/blue there)? Or a goth thing, or a mix of the two (most likely I'd imagine). Black and purple generally go well together.

 

[Addendum_Forthcoming]

So, is this like a Dungeons and Dragons Drider type thing or just a woman that is vaguely spider themed?

Generic goth woman wearing purple.

Which is an oddly specific trope: why's purple associated with spider-themed ladies?

Christ, are my eyes that bad? It looks black to me. I think I need to go to an optometrist.

As for the topic, gah. Why? Giant spider is so much cooler. I'm less fussed that it was generic pretty woman for no reason, #1,546,894 in video games as much as I think it's purely lazy as all hell. After all, animating a gigantic spider in cutscenes somehow communicating well enough with the protag might have required creative thinking, and showing a creature that is both intelligent, malicious, powerful and ancient.

Shelob is quarter-Umaiar, thus immortal and all the Great Spiders can speak if I remember correctly, but few could hear them properly.

But see you could have accommodated this in many ways. Like a gift from the ancient Ainur that allowed Shelob to speak as if into his mind. A relic he had to find before he sought her out. The cool thing is the item could have let you hear the whispers of other Great Spiders.

This change doesn't really add a whole lot. Talion making an alliance with Shelob is actually a really interesting concept, since she's supposed to be a borderline Lovecrafian horror. Even Sauron doesn't have full control over her. But it shows kind of a lack of creativity on the developer's part that, instead of forming an alliance with a giant scary spider, we're gonna be spending most of the time talking to a generic sexy woman. It's been done.

TL;DR There's a sexy humanized Shelob in Shadow of War. It adds nothing, is a tired cliche, and it's just BORING.

Sauron was in awe of her, at least in so far that personally uprooting her would havew been impossible. Shelob did her own thing. She'd regulaly eat his gathered warhosts. Which makes sense for a being that is practically godly through bloodline. Her mother took on multiple Balrogs before being driven off. Shelob hunted all things and she consumed the very light of the world. The fact that Sam managed to get a good stab in and drove her back speaks more to the courage of hobbits than it does to relative strength.

 

[The Almighty Aardvark]

They want to give their male audience fap material, and they may or may not try and justify it in world.

It's kind of annoying, but it's not exactly surprising. It's kind of a trend in games, and this game hardly seems like one to try and break it. Look at the first game, it's taken LotR and tried to make it a lot more gritty and manly. It's like they took the Pale Orc storyline from The Hobbit movies and made that into a game. They've been pandering to a very specific audience from the get go.

I'm enjoying the game, but not as much as I would otherwise, and I'm sure it'll put some LotR fans off of the games.