Shadowrun Returns Initial Thoughts

[barbzilla]

That said, I do applaud them for releasing the mod tool with it. That allows us to modify the game and make it into whatever we want (more or less). With any amount of luck, we will have a proper Shadowrun experience inside of the next year or so with community mods.

not mod tools, level editor, its actually very hard for people to create new content and would be harder for people to download and install, not that this is a bad thing, but people seem to assuming some modder is going to come along and remove the checkpoint saves and completely recreate the game which is pretty much not going to happen.


any way on topic, it was okay, not great not bad but okay, I liked the parts I played, felt it could have been better, maybe some more optional runs, (there's only what 3? which can be missed if you dont do them as soon as available).

also I think certain design choices where very questionable, no free roam, limited access to supplies, and the fact that you cant use you damn team mates to complete things you dont have the stats for, but they do. (took a decker with me everywhere only to realise at the end you cant use there decking skill to open doors or safes) i mean the whole decker thing just felt like a waste, a few matrix missions which where just tripppy palet swaps of the over world.


I am happy they released a good (from what i have been told) editor, but I don't think the game can be given bonus points for it, as all the editor does is give the "potential" for future content, could be crap or the scene could be dead.

but yeah i am happy with my kickstarter backing of it, still think there are areas it could have been improved

The level editor gives us a bit of control, plus since it is a PC game I expect to see further modding outside of the editor. The game itself is just a load of meh for me, nothing stuck out and nothing made an impression. If someone can really get a strong sense of the world and add in the required items to make it more like NWN, then we might have a winner. Right now it just feels like a bad attempt at crossing XCom with NWN.

I do hope we can push past it though as I love Shadowrun and this was my first Kickstarter. Until then, I am still waiting for a proper Shadowrun experience in a video game.

 

[erbkaiser]

I am happy to have helped Kickstart it.

I got what I wanted: a really good Shadowrun story, an isometric game that plays well, and I guess mod tools so there'll be some mods incoming.
I am about 6 hours in so probably about halfway, with a Decker character who also does a rifle, and thus far I really like it.

I haven't noticed any grammar or spelling errors, so if they're there they're not distracting at least. No unforgivable errors like *yur or their/they're/there mixups at least.

 

[spartandude]

Im not seeing anything super special about it so far (ive only just gotten to the main pub place thing) nothing thats going to have me looking back on it though out the ages, but im really enjoying it so far, combat is good, i like how its set up similar to a P&P games with the descriptions and Shadowrun setting is generally interesting

 

[Dirty Apple]

I've seen the X-Com and Neverwinter Nights, but, judging from the stills and videos I've seen, it gives me a Arcanum feel. Does that comparison hold, or does it play very differently than that?

 

[barbzilla]

I've seen the X-Com and Neverwinter Nights, but, judging from the stills and videos I've seen, it gives me a Arcanum feel. Does that comparison hold, or does it play very differently than that?

It plays nothing like Arcanum to me. I can see the comparison, but it just doesn't have that feel. Now if you were to hybridize Arcanum and XCom, then yeah probably.

 

[Fat Hippo]

I like it.
Hit a wall though. Would have to go back 2 checkpoints to save the game. Quicksaves would help.
Yeah. I'm done with it for now.
The story is its strong point and being held back through gameplay/ losing fights due to the game expecting me to see into the future really breaks it for me. I'll let it rest for a while


shotguns are op

Haha, I've really been enjoying the crazy shotguns. I love how the pellets split at a range of 10 meters to hit two different targets. Coyote has been kneecapping assholes left and right. But yeah, they have way too much range.

I'm really enjoying the game. Yes, I would like manual saving, it's very linear, the UI is kinda fiddly etc. But so far it's quite good, and it's very obvious that the entire thing is very much based on creating a toolset for people to work with, and then seeing what can be done with that toolset. I only hope that they add more functionality to the editor, to let people do some slightly more creative stuff, although I haven't played with it myself, so who knows what possibilities lie within it.

Captcha: Goody Goody Gumdrops.

Yes you are , Shadowrun Returns!

 

[randomrob1968]

Im a few hours in, just passed the first major climax.. I like it. The art is right on, the music is right on, the combat has that multigenre craziness that drew me to it back in the day, and I think the writing is worth reading.. it's well written!

That said, it's a casual tactics rpg, very linear... it won't appeal to the younger crowd, I don't think.. but I'm enjoying it for what it is.

(I wish the map scrolled a little more smoothly)

 

[barbzilla]

heard some news from an interview. apparently the reason why it was so linear is that they were going for the same sort of feel the SNES shadowrun game had. the berlin expansion however will be more openworld with different runs from johnsons, etc.

I played the Genesis game, how similar or different is that from the SNES one? I am okay with the linear progression, it is just that when I kickstarted it, it was billed as a RPG.

Im a few hours in, just passed the first major climax.. I like it. The art is right on, the music is right on, the combat has that multigenre craziness that drew me to it back in the day, and I think the writing is worth reading.. it's well written!

That said, it's a casual tactics rpg, very linear... it won't appeal to the younger crowd, I don't think.. but I'm enjoying it for what it is.

(I wish the map scrolled a little more smoothly)

I'm 30 years old and a huge PnP roleplayer, but this game just falls flat for me (the campaign, not the engine itself). So I don't think age has much to do with it. What is doubly baffling is, where did the extra kickstarter funds go? Everyone says that the editor is where the money went, but a level design editor is a key part of most game engines (granted the ones released to the public take more time as they have to be made accessible to people without programing skills), and with the original goal at only 400k... Well my point is, I think the campaign was rushed and tacked on at the end, which I can live with. I would much rather them spend the money on assets and making the editor easy to use than making the release campaign great, but I can't help wondering how much it will hurt the community before it ever gets a chance to start.

 

[Azahul]

Finished the campaign a few hours ago. Really enjoyed it. The ending was... really quite good, and certainly made me feel a bit ashamed of some choices I'd made. I played an Ork Adept, had a lot of fun just wading through with my sword in hand, and the only times I ever felt stuck were when I blew all my money upgrading my character and had none to hire a team for the next run. So that was just me being stupid.

There were a few minor frustrations. In that late level where you need to defend the Decker as the elevators are coming up, I was really wishing it was possible for two deckers (I'd brought two for the mission, as it said you'd need them) to jack into the matrix at once.

The start of the game had a few moments when it looked like they were going to be a lot less linear than they ultimately ended up being, but ultimately I didn't mind that. I never played the PnP game (World of Darkness and Unhallowed Metropolis are more my thing), but the game gave me the impression that Shadowruns were a pretty linear experience anyway.

I'm seriously looking forward to the release of the Berlin campaign. Will probably play through the game a second time, want to try out one of the more magical classes.

 

[randomrob1968]

What is doubly baffling is, where did the extra kickstarter funds go?

Well, assuming it was a dedicated project of all the 22 employees being on the clock for the year and a few months it took.. 400K divided by 22 is about 18k per person as a wage. That ain't much. The other million point 4 they raised? I'm guessing some of it went to the editor, some to the new campaign and whatever content they're adding, which it sounds like they are adding a good bit since they're having most of their team staying with it, some to PR and advertising, some into their pockets...

I don't pretend to understand the legal issues of crowdfunding, I do know they promised to put out a sequel to the 90s console game and I really can't fault them on that. The game I bought is the one I expected-

 

[Brown_Coat117]

I enjoyed the the game however I do have some complaints about it.

Not being able to rotate the camera made targeting enemies a pain at times. There was next to nothing useful for deckers to do with the exception of one mission where one is required. The whole game seemed a bit too focused on using guns, if you don't have decent skill with firearms at the end you can get screwed very easily. I hate check point only saving systems. There also seemed to be several places in combat where I would have to wait for around 10 seconds for the enemy to move.

Overall I'd give it a 7/10.

 

[Aiddon_v1legacy]

I enjoyed the the game however I do have some complaints about it.

Not being able to rotate the camera made targeting enemies a pain at times. There was next to nothing useful for deckers to do with the exception of one mission where one is required. The whole game seemed a bit too focused on using guns, if you don't have decent skill with firearms at the end you can get screwed very easily. I hate check point only saving systems. There also seemed to be several places in combat where I would have to wait for around 10 seconds for the enemy to move.

Overall I'd give it a 7/10.

Especially when it came to the last mission. The last two missions in general had ONE solution or playstyle, which is kind of annoying. Hopefully the Berlin expansion has a final fight that's a bit more varied in nature.

 

[Seracen]

I've enjoyed it thus far. It holds truer to the feel of Shadowrun than anything I've played of late. Furthermore, anything coming close to cyberpunk is a welcome addition for me.

I can definitely see the frustration with the combat mechanics, as I was expecting more of a Diablo style combat flow, but I'm not complaining. I'm more put off by the lack of voice-overs.

I know it's probably too much to ask from them, but I've been spoiled of late. To be honest, half the time I speed past the dialogue once I've read it anyways.

Looking forward to more content, however!

 

[Azahul]

the tabletop game was mostly self contained shadowruns for the most part. meet the johnson, get the job, hope there isnt any fall back

In that case, yeah, sounds like they captured the spirit of the PnP game pretty well.

Just started a second playthrough. My Ork Adept went well, never had a problem meleeing enemies throughout the game. Going to be trying an Elf Shaman for the second run.

 

[vallorn]

the tabletop game was mostly self contained shadowruns for the most part. meet the johnson, get the job, hope there isnt any fall back

In that case, yeah, sounds like they captured the spirit of the PnP game pretty well.

Just started a second playthrough. My Ork Adept went well, never had a problem meleeing enemies throughout the game. Going to be trying an Elf Shaman for the second run.

Elf Mage is hilarious. I know it isn't optimal but it's so goddamn fun to just nuke everything with fireballs, lightning bolts and acid splashes. Plus if you play right you can multiclass a pure Mage to have some Shaman traits which makes things really awesome.

Also I would like to mirror the lack of use for Decker crew members... Seriously wtf... In the last mission (no spoilers) there's a safe which requires Decking 5 to open. My main character is magic focused so nada. I turn to the decked I brought along just in case. they walk over. NOPE DOESN'T COUNT THE PC HAS TO BE A DECKER LOL!

Seriously, probably the most frustrating thing about the story was that some classes were good for anything and some just had nothing to do for half the missions.

 

[veloper]

There's a difference between creating a decker PC yourself or hiring some decker.
The deckers you can hire are all much poorer than all the other hirelings, except for the one mission that requires a decker.
Creating your own decker with large focus on a sensible firearm(like rifle or shotgun) works pretty well. You get to open rooms you wouldn't otherwise get into, take some extra loot and fix a few problems with the decker skill. Then with a proper weapon and the secondary focus your PC will probably still outperform the pure street samurai for hire.

Actually, come to think of it, ALL available shadowrunners in the game are pretty bad, with points scattered across less useful skills and unsuitable equipment. Melee skills in unarmored support classes being the worst offender. The mages and the one ranged samurai, are probably the better picks of the lot. Not entirely sure about riggers. Atleast drones are fun. The deckers come last.

 

[Alcamonic]

Story and dialogue is very good.
But as others have said, the tactical combat is very much XCOM-lite (how does a 2 feet high box give half protection while a table of greater size gives zero!?) and the animation feels a bit sluggish and slow.

I was hoping for a second SNES Shadowrun. I was sad.

 

[5ilver]

I liked the setting and art style of the game but it felt way too short. The best part about similar older RPG's is how massive and deep they are. A 12-hour game can't compare to a 60+ hour game, even if it any lacks major flaws.

Minor flaws:
Checkpoint system
Some skills are absurdly under/overpowered (rifles and shotguns vs melee, for instance).
some stats/skills are used too rarely/too often during dialogue (at least 20 uses for charisma and only 1 use for quickness?)
no way to change/view keybinds
the mercs lack dialogue/character


Also, protip: DO NOT make your protagonist a decker. Seriously, there are about 3-4 chances to enter the matrix in the entire game and you can use a hireling in almost every one of them.

 

[5ilver]

Spoiler

the tabletop game was mostly self contained shadowruns for the most part. meet the johnson, get the job, hope there isnt any fall back

In that case, yeah, sounds like they captured the spirit of the PnP game pretty well.

Just started a second playthrough. My Ork Adept went well, never had a problem meleeing enemies throughout the game. Going to be trying an Elf Shaman for the second run.

Elf Mage is hilarious. I know it isn't optimal but it's so goddamn fun to just nuke everything with fireballs, lightning bolts and acid splashes. Plus if you play right you can multiclass a pure Mage to have some Shaman traits which makes things really awesome.

Also I would like to mirror the lack of use for Decker crew members... Seriously wtf... In the last mission (no spoilers) there's a safe which requires Decking 5 to open. My main character is magic focused so nada. I turn to the decked I brought along just in case. they walk over. NOPE DOESN'T COUNT THE PC HAS TO BE A DECKER LOL!

Seriously, probably the most frustrating thing about the story was that some classes were good for anything and some just had nothing to do for half the missions.

There's 1 tier 3 medkit in that safe. That's all :X

 

[barbzilla]

What is doubly baffling is, where did the extra kickstarter funds go?

Well, assuming it was a dedicated project of all the 22 employees being on the clock for the year and a few months it took.. 400K divided by 22 is about 18k per person as a wage. That ain't much. The other million point 4 they raised? I'm guessing some of it went to the editor, some to the new campaign and whatever content they're adding, which it sounds like they are adding a good bit since they're having most of their team staying with it, some to PR and advertising, some into their pockets...

I don't pretend to understand the legal issues of crowdfunding, I do know they promised to put out a sequel to the 90s console game and I really can't fault them on that. The game I bought is the one I expected-

Well the Editor would have been made either way, as this is how levels are designed at the professional level as well (albeit the editors tend to be less user friendly, so I accept some of the funds went to making it easier to use). The DLC campaign didn't get started until after launch, and is likely using funds from the launch and not the 1.4m. It wasn't heavily advertised (which is fine, I've known about it for quite a while) and PR doesn't cost much more than hiring a PR manager (which I am guessing was included in the 22 people).

I don't mean to say that I am disappointed in the overall product I received. In fact I am sufficiently satisfied with what I recieved vs what I paid, but I am very disappointed that with all of those funds they didn't put the campaign through at least a basic editorial process. Punctuation and grammatical errors are all over the place, and the dialogue was terrible. The overarch of the story was fairly well written (as in the concept), but the writing itself was atrocious.

If I had to judge the game based on this campaign alone, I would only give it a 5/10. It was technically functional and didn't suffer from major bugs. On the other end of the spectrum the writing was bad, there were no role playing elements (aside from character creation elements), your choices make little to no difference, and it was nothing but a linear turn based tactics game. Luckily I don't have to judge it solely on the base campaign, and already I've seen some decent entries into the user generated content market. With any luck we will have a decent game experience soon (hopefully the DLC meets my expectations and raises my opinion on the devs again).

As for legality, I don't want a refund or want to start any law suits, so the legality isn't an issue. Where I am disappointed is the fact that my Shadowrun RPG turned into a Shadowrun turn based tactical game. Outside of that, most of my complaints are based on the release campaign, which is not a major issue. I just wonder what kind of game we would have gotten for the 400k minimum. If 1.4m bought us this, what did the original 400k buy us?