Shadowrun Returns Initial Thoughts

[wulfy42]

Alot of the bad points have already been hit apon. I am, pretty dissapointed in what I recieved to be honest.

It's not the save system, the high amount of text etc that bugs me that much.

It's the fact that it's not based on the Shadowrun core rules....in almost any way. combat rolls, dice pools, use of skills etc...all of that is not in the game.

Decking might as well not be in the game either...what they call decking was just quickly added to appease people I'm guessing. The Sega systems decking was 10x better...and even if they had just imported the SAME SYSTEM as they used for the sega....it would have been a TON better....even with the exact same old graphics.

Character customization and building is mostly pointless because of this....I've played through with a few different types of characters trying to find something that is "fun"....with no luck. Combat for the most part just seems like a chore...and there really isn't any incentive in the initial campaign to think outside the box when creating a character. The Custom campaigns so far that I have tried (like the SNES remake) are not even close to done..or even as good as the official campaign. Maybe that will change eventually but honestly the tools that we have given are not going to be that useful for making a great RPG experience (at least if your looking for enjoyable character creation and combat.

If we just wanted a "game" where you walk around and talk to people...and have no real stats...character powers and combat experience......then you could have just made it a freaking text adventure and saved a ton of money and time. It would probably have been far more fun as well since more emphasis would be put on the story and making interesting characters etc.

I have attempted to list the positives of this game...and keep an open mind about it. I hate being negative on a game....as long as it isn't released in a totally broken state. Sadly I have come to a final conclusion that if this game did not have the SHADOWRUN name attached to it, I would not have given it more then 15 minutes...and I certainly would not have purchased it after trying a demo.

I doubt many people would have bought this game if they could have tried it first and it wasn't based on Shadowrun (using the same system etc...just no shadowrun name association).

I know some people are enjoying it...both because they just plain like the game, or because they really really want to enjoy it. I was trying to look on the bright side as well at first and stick with the positive parts.

Thing is....I have to be honest at this point. I regret backing this game. This is not what I paid for...and certainly not what I was hoping for. I would rather have the original Genisis game remade...or better yet expanded on...then this.

 

[geldonyetich]

It's the fact that it's not based on the Shadowrun core rules....in almost any way. combat rolls, dice pools, use of skills etc...all of that is not in the game.

Didn't Shadowrun completely change their core rules between editions?

I just assumed this one was based off of a later edition.

 

[wulfy42]

It's the fact that it's not based on the Shadowrun core rules....in almost any way. combat rolls, dice pools, use of skills etc...all of that is not in the game.

Didn't Shadowrun completely change their core rules between editions?

I just assumed this one was based off of a later edition.

Most of the rules are still very similar.....stats are still used in much the same way, hit boxes are used instead of hp, dice pools used for defense offense etc.

None of that is in shadowrun returns. It's like a totally different game...with shadowrun names pasted on top.

There are differences in later editions, but nothing at all like what we see in this game.

 

[bigwon]

Dead Man Switch Campaign: It was nice, kept me entertained. Not going to win any awards or anything but it was fun enough and did it's job.

The engine:

-cover system could of been polished more. I felt like you should've been able to cover behind certain walls but you couldn't. Weren't really any vantage points or tactical advantages I found. Every one just standing in an open room shooting each other until the other side dropped.

Hopefully in the editor you can choose what does and doesn't give you cover.

-would've been nice if they added a shift+click option that made it that you could specifically move someone somewere as opposed to accidentally clicking a party member...that was annoying.

-seems as though you can't move up and down various elevation levels. Kind of a bummer, if they were going to copy xcom's battle system they might as well went all the way.

-other then that all of the story telling stuff seems to give you a good enough amount of options. The dead mans switch campaign didn't seem to use it but i'm sure others will be able to do a good amount with it.

I'd have to wait until others have made content to really chime in.

 

[Thanatos5150]

What is this issue with accidentally moving when one meant to change party members?
I thought the only way to change the active member was clicking their portraits in the upper-right.

 

[Milanezi]

I didn't back it up (I didn't even know it was on Kickstarter), nor did I have many expectations, since my only experience with Shadowrun was appreciating some art Louis Royo did for it lol I bought the game on the release date though and I am completely amazed by it. It reminds me of a linear and simplified version of Fallout 1 & 2, but it's still all the fun with elements of RPG such as dialog options and leveling system that are enough to satisfy me. I'd say it's a blend of L.A. Noir and "Action Point system" RPG.
I'm having way more fun with it than I expected. I know they're different genres altogether, but Shadowrun actually convinced me to put a stop to Bioshock Infinite (not enjoying it as much as I did the original game anyway...) and focus on Shadowrun.

 

[randomrob1968]

I'm on the bug-killing mission and this game is starting to feel like a real slog... if this is how they end the campaign, then yeah- I have to weigh in on the 'not so well written/why isn't this better' side.

Will advise-

 

[Milanezi]

one thing that really suprised me was the lack of choice with cyberware. it makes playing a street samurai alot harder. seriously needs far more cyberware, slots for installing it, etc

in the table top game a samurai could fit wired reflexes, dermal plating and bone lacing with no issues. plus wired reflexes was alot more lethal too

Now THAT'S the sort of thing everyone is complaining and I can't have I say because I never played the original tabletop (or any other version)... Good sense and good criticism goes hand in hand, but I REALLY want to *****-slap every fucker complaining that the game sucks because "if they wanted to read they'd get a book"...

 

[Calcium]

I've found it to be an awesome game so far. 14 hours into the campaign and still going, though I think I'm pretty close to the end from accidentily looking at the chapter names in the editor.

I enjoy the combat, though find it kinda easy. Perhaps it's just how I built my character, but he runs into the center of combat punching fools and roundhouse kicking orks while the rest of the party showers him in heals, armour, and haste spells (giving extra actions per turn). I havn't had any allies or runners die yet, and only ended up with characters downed once. I do really like how you can actually have an unarmed character be viable though.

The story and dialogue I've also been fascinated with, though at one point in the story I had one of those "Really...?" moments. Stuff does seem to get rather weird, though it's somewhat explained as the game progresses.

The editor also seems to be a very polished tool. I must have spent a good 10 hours in it, and unlike most out-of-game editors I've come across, its a breeze to use.

I find it a great game, and can see myself replaying it through quickly after completing it to explore things and options I missed on my first run.

 

[Talvrae]

Anyone knows if there are any good/memorable party members you can get? Any new Morte or Garrus?

I find it difficult to engage in a story if there aren't any good characters to engage with, especially if your own char doesn't have alot of personality.

A couple; Coyote is definitely badass while Jake is a grizzled, snarky old man. The supporting cast is really where the writing shines as the villains are rather interesting and the supporting characters do have loads of personality.

Just to bad we get Dodger in the game... and he don,t say anything

Has anyone ever played the Shadowrun TTRPG? It's fucking impossible because the developers are always overcomplicating the rules for combat and such. Seriously, what's wrong with using the Interlock system like Cyberpunk 2020 did/does? It's simple, easy to learn, and allows for tons of flexibility.

Since they won't change the system, Shadowrun works much better as a videogame. Let the computer handle all the stupid rules that make only partial sense.

What are you talking about the PnP is awesome i absolutelly love it... yeah there is complexity and lot of modifiers... but it's a great game

 

[dementis]

I've really enjoyed it so far, although I would have liked more side quests and exploration as the universe is so interesting. I haven't found the role playing or combat disappointing in anyway, although I would have like more chances for deckers to be able to hack devices in the game as the matrix is such an interesting idea that I've loved since I first read neuromancer.

I'm certainly looking forward to the wide variety of user generated campaigns that we'll get in the future, hopefully we'll get some decker orientated campaigns. Maybe even a neuromancer homage!

 

[Jandau]

Just finished the game and I'd like to revise some of my initial impressions:

First, the game's story is cool. Showcases the setting and some basic themes, runs the player through a selection of situations and people you'd meet in Shadowrun, gives some backstory. A good introductory campaign. It's linear almost to the extreme, with your choices making next to no impact on the events of the game. I suppose that's fine, but it could have been so much more...

Secondly, the gameplay is not terrible. It plays like Fallout 1&2 mixed with some X-COM. However, the controls feel sluggish, there's some tedium in the gameplay. Some great ideas in there, like hacking being a mini-dungeon that happens parallel to the rest of the mission, so while your Decker is in the Matrix, bullets are flying around. Sadly, they don't do much with it. Most Decking sections are plot related, there's only a few cool situations where you can "discover" a solution to a problem using Decking. I'm not saying Decking is bad, just that they could have done so much more with it...

One thing worth mentioning is the balancing. Firearms rule, Magic is OK, Melee is poop. Around 50% of the skills are outright useless and serve no purpose. Game mechanics are poorly explained and half the time you're not sure what the points you're spending actually do. Little variety in gear and overall tactical options. It's like they were on to something, but then just wrapped it up halfway and just shipped it...

Overall, that's the feel of the game - not bad, but a ton of wasted potential. I keep repeating to myself that I shouldn't be so hard on the game, it's an indie and all that, but there's just so much that could have been soooo much better than I can't ignore all the missed opportunities. Shadowrun is a really cool setting and I'd love a proper RPG in it. This is more like a mini-version of what the game should be...

 

[PedroSteckecilo]

I love it... except for the horrible, horrible save system... I'm probably going to wait until they patch it to give it a second playthrough.

 

[Atmos Duality]

The look, feel, prose and tone are perfect. It shows that the original guy who created Shadowrun lead the design team.
I just wished there was more of a hub-mission system than an on-rails game. The strategy segments are so far, a bit too easy, but that's fine because apparently I already handicapped myself by playing an adept (whose killing hands refuses to activate even when I select them).

It's pretty great for an old Shadowrun fan like me, but I'd definitely see people slamming it more if they weren't invested in the setting; it needs more content and badly.

*COUGH*

http://www.shadowrun.com/shadowrun-online/

You're welcome.

Ever since I heard them announce the Shadowrun MMO, I've had this dreadful feeling that all the real effort will go there.

 

[Talvrae]

*COUGH*

http://www.shadowrun.com/shadowrun-online/

You're welcome.

Ever since I heard them announce the Shadowrun MMO, I've had this dreadful feeling that all the real effort will go there.

2 Completelly differents companys here, there is no the real effort go there, because HBS was working on ShadowRun Return, and a completelly different company and teams work on ShadowRun Online, namelly Cliffhanger Productions

 

[Phoenixmgs_v1legacy]

I feel as though this is closer to XCom than to any form of PnP role playing.

I haven't played Shadowrun Returns but XCOM's combat is basically DnD but adapted for gun combat. You have basically a move action and standard action or you can double move. Then, you have flanking and stuff. So just from that Shadowruns Returns has at least be half of what a PnP game is.

 

[IamLEAM1983]

Been loving it so far, but Dead Man's Switch really isn't the best fit for Decker characters. That's a crying shame. You only get to put your Sony or your Renraku to good use about two thirds into the campaign, so there's quite a bit of time that passes where your security expert is reduced to brute-forcing his way past passwords on personal computers.

Yay.

So I rerolled a Troll Samurai, and I've been having fun ever since. It's not an easy game by any stretch of the imagination and the interface could really use some work; but I'm fond of the isometric style they used. It reminds me of the earlier XCOM games and Baldur's Gate.

 

[gmaverick019_v1legacy]

Just finished the game and I'd like to revise some of my initial impressions:

First, the game's story is cool. Showcases the setting and some basic themes, runs the player through a selection of situations and people you'd meet in Shadowrun, gives some backstory. A good introductory campaign. It's linear almost to the extreme, with your choices making next to no impact on the events of the game. I suppose that's fine, but it could have been so much more...

Secondly, the gameplay is not terrible. It plays like Fallout 1&2 mixed with some X-COM. However, the controls feel sluggish, there's some tedium in the gameplay. Some great ideas in there, like hacking being a mini-dungeon that happens parallel to the rest of the mission, so while your Decker is in the Matrix, bullets are flying around. Sadly, they don't do much with it. Most Decking sections are plot related, there's only a few cool situations where you can "discover" a solution to a problem using Decking. I'm not saying Decking is bad, just that they could have done so much more with it...

One thing worth mentioning is the balancing. Firearms rule, Magic is OK, Melee is poop. Around 50% of the skills are outright useless and serve no purpose. Game mechanics are poorly explained and half the time you're not sure what the points you're spending actually do. Little variety in gear and overall tactical options. It's like they were on to something, but then just wrapped it up halfway and just shipped it...

Overall, that's the feel of the game - not bad, but a ton of wasted potential. I keep repeating to myself that I shouldn't be so hard on the game, it's an indie and all that, but there's just so much that could have been soooo much better than I can't ignore all the missed opportunities. Shadowrun is a really cool setting and I'd love a proper RPG in it. This is more like a mini-version of what the game should be...

I've only put a couple solid hours in so far, but this is definitely echo'ing how I feel. I'm enjoying it alot, don't get me wrong, but it feels like it was teetering on the edge of "awesome!" and didn't quite reach it, depth-wise at least. then again, steam workshop is seeming to line up nicely with the game so i'm sure over time there will be some GREAT mods (both on and off of steam of course) that will really get this game to shine, and i can't wait to see what campaigns people build up! most of the complaints/issues i think can be solved quite nicely with some depth mods so i'm hoping those are on the way!

 

[bigwon]

Just been playing around with some community projects. It looks like down the line this could be pretty legit.
My only concern would be that the community would all migrate to the mmo and let returns just fade out.

I was hearing about an astral plane (sort of like the matrix but for shamans) and I'm just....damn just so much they could've done with this game. I'm hoping that they have plans on fleshing the game out with more mechanics before too long.

Otherwise the games great! if they can just patch in these functions they could have a perfect game!