Shaky Cam Games

[Falseprophet]

Sorry Yahtzee, but I'd have to say "like Castlevania" should have been the phrase. I don't mean the new Castelvania games, I mean the old, classic ones. They have all of these features:

Collect souls - collect hearts
Instakill - special weapons
Kill Satan - Dracula

The other details are in both games as well, especially if you take into consideration Symphony of the Night.

It's true; Castlevania also did the "chain/whip weapons" and "kill all the monsters of the Greek pantheon/Hammer & Universal Horror films" thing long before the PlayStation or XBox even existed. I feel sad when such an innovative series is so forgotten it's seen as a poor-quality imitation. Kind of like going back and watching Babylon 5 again.

 

[Labcoat Samurai]

Every action game I can think of has air combos.

Like...really? How many action games do you know XD.

Well, "every" *might* be an exaggeration.... let's see.

God of War series, Dante's Inferno, and Castlevania, sure. Also every game in the Devil May Cry series, Bayonetta, Heavenly Sword, Enslaved, all the xbox/ps3 Ninja Gaiden games, SW:TFU.... that's at least 15 games unless you count sigma and sigma 2 as separate, which I won't. It's also 9 franchises.

I'm having a small amount of difficulty thinking of other recent action games. I'm not extremely focused on the genre, being fond of adventure, RPG, FPS, 3PS, etc.

Maybe if it helps, I use "action" and "hack 'n slash" interchangeably. That might be the point of confusion. So yeah, I don't count games like Zelda or Fable as action games. They are adventure games with a hint of RPG (a bit more than a hint in Fable's case). That classification is entirely arbitrary and if you disagree with it, that's fine, but maybe my point makes more sense to you in that context?

 

[Yossarian1507]

So, if God of War is popular, it's because lots of people today are emo, selfish, self-hating, physically weak, sexist, responsibility-avoiding whiners who sympathize with Republican economic policies.

That, or God of War was just so damn good, fun and relaxing package of mindless slaughter like Serious Sam and Painkiller but without FPS form. I think I'll go with the second option.

 

[Robyrt]

I like to refer to this genre as the Third-Person Brawler. It's a third-person action game with a focus on fantastical melee attacks and combos.

So does Prince of Persia: Warrior Within count as a God of War type game? Angsty hero beating up the local Satan and his cannon fodder hordes with stylish combo attacks, collecting souls to power up his weapons, instant kill throw attack, magic powers... Except it's bolted onto a level pack for Sands of Time, a platformer with light combat elements.

 

[tehroc]

I wonder how come no one ever mentions the Conan game they put out on 360 years ago, the demo was fun.

 

[Misho-]

Can't recall the shaky cam in Castlevania.

I just finished it on Friday, after 2 weeks of not playing, and can't recall the shaky cam.

WHERE THE FUCK WAS IT? Someone jog my memory, damn it.

Me either. I mean, it moves about on its own, sure. But I recall it sweeping about smoothly when it moved. There may have been times where it swept gently and slowly about while otherwise maintaining the same angle... but that's not shaky cam.

Ok it's not shaky when you are moving, but try standing still in at the begining of a stage where Gabriel is really close to the screen and don't move at all. You will notice it waves from one side to the other like if the cam was on top of a big dog's head or something.

Oh, and one other point on that. Stand still for a while in *any* 3rd person game. The camera will eventually start moving on its own. Just sayin'

True dat, but I think I found that the Castlevania Game didn't do right was to appeal to the ravin' fanboys, at its core its a good game with original concepts overwhelmed by what it copies or uses as inspiration. As the Penny Arcade one about Darksiders it really depends on your perspective. (Wait I have a point)

The thing is that what the reviewers are doing AKA nitpicking is largely because there isn't a lot to complain about. Watch IGNs review, watch gamespot review, even Gametrailers at some point... All they do is nitpick, Yahtzee's take is on the "Shaky" camera. More like Wavy camera... It's ok, reviews are still subjective so if he doesn't like it then its going to be a bad review. I like it... Largely because it's fun. And so... true dat, in most 3ds nowadays having a character standing still will have the camera move around.

 

[Ashoten]

I gotta be honest, but I am getting sick of Yahtzee's cynicism and judgmental attitude.

Also, I have no idea what he's talking about when he refers to the "shaky cam" in Castlevania. It was quite obvious in Kane and Lynch 2, but Castlevania's cam was just fixed - it never shook.

P.S. I know he's joking about some bits, but these jokes just aren't that funny anymore.

Sometimes yes. I do get really sick of his attitude as much I enjoy his wit. If I went to a stage performance staring Mr. Croshaw I'm not sure if I would bring flowers or grenades. Ideally I would want some sort of incendiary posies.
I also wonder if the irony is not lost on him that he rags on American capitalism all the time but works in an industry dependent on it? American consumerism FTW

 

[Something Amyss]

it wasn't good in the Blaire Witch project, it isn't good now. dunno why it's getting popular

Because in an age of extreme indulgence, we frequently conflate 'crap' with authenticity and 'low budget' with 'artistic.'

I think Yahtzee may have summed up why I've never been enthralled by the GoW series. I just don't hate women enough.

>.>

 

[Defense]

I want to agree, but would Killzone 2 count as a game with a shaky camera? Because I thought the shaking made the game that much more immersive and well done.

 

[blackdwarf]

never seen the shaky camera and the moments the camera was onnaying because i couldn't move it were rare. if it is true that you will see the camera 'shake' when you stand still, then complaining about that is really forced. i always try not the compare games to each other, because i want to rate a game on HIS content, not what is has in comparison with other game. like i said in the comments on the video, i really like CV and i think its one of the best games of the year.

 

[Labcoat Samurai]

The thing is that what the reviewers are doing AKA nitpicking is largely because there isn't a lot to complain about. Watch IGNs review, watch gamespot review, even Gametrailers at some point... All they do is nitpick, Yahtzee's take is on the "Shaky" camera. More like Wavy camera... It's ok, reviews are still subjective so if he doesn't like it then its going to be a bad review. I like it... Largely because it's fun. And so... true dat, in most 3ds nowadays having a character standing still will have the camera move around.

It's interesting, though. Most of the critics were very positive about the game. For what it's worth, the PS3 version stands at 85 on Metacritic. That's a pretty respectable score for a hack 'n slash game. Here's the blurb Metacritic quotes from the *most* negative review they tracked:

"Castlevania: Lords of Shadow is a great amalgamation of the genres and games it combines. It makes sure they all come together effortlessly, but it never really owns the gameplay it borrows. It's a fun game, but not a revolution."

That's the *most* negative mainstream review that Metacritic counted.

Yahtzee is way out of step with the rest of the reviewers on this one with the bile he's heaping on this game. Of course, he commonly is out of step with them... but there are certain reviewers whose opinions I find more useful that Yahtzee's... most of them, actually. I mean, Yahtzee is highly amusing, and occasionally says something insightful, but otherwise, his perspective is so often irreconcilably different from mine that I don't put a lot of stock in his reviews. When he likes something, I find it interesting, but when he hates something.... meh, it might be for all the wrong reasons in my view.

 

[ohgodalex]

Apart from not *technically* being true, due to Gabriel being a different sort of protagonist, why exactly do you think this is? Might it be because you cherry picked? Bayonetta and Castlevania share a timed block/dodge slowdown mechanic that none of the other games have. God of War shares multiple selectable primary weapons with Ninja Gaiden II, and Castlevania does not have this. Ninja Gaiden II and Heavenly Sword both have chain weapons.

Almost everything you listed is *extremely* common in action games to the point that nearly every one has it. The only exceptions are chain weapons and grab finishers. These aren't the feature for feature copies you want to make them out to be.

Is that the new Eau de Fanboy cologne from Calvin Klein? Wherever did you get it?

 

[Therumancer]

Truthfully there have only been a few movies that have done the "camcorder footage" thing, despite hundreds of imitators of those scant full successes. Truthfully I am surprised that the gaming industry has been trying to do the same thing.

With movies that do a "shaky cam" in a few select scenes, as opposed to for a "faus documentary" effect I refer to it as the "Aliens Syndrome" that is to say that they shoot the scene in the dark anytime anything happens and have the camera jump around to conveinently miss anything that would require a big-budget "money scene". In some cases (like Aliens) it works, in others it seemes like what it is: cutting corners for the FX budget.

Oddly though there isn't even any money to be saved by doing things this way.


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As far as "God Of War" goes, I tend to think of games of that sort as "Brawlers" being the descendants of games like "Final Fight" and "River City Ransom", rather than calling them "Hack and Slash", as I don't think they are differant enough to really deserve a seperate designation. On the other hand your (Yahtzee) "Spectacle Fighter" designation does make a certain degree of sense in the case of games where a goodly portion of the enemies provide no signifigant threat whatsoever, compared to say "Double Dragon" or "Final Fight" or whatever where a couple of bad moves and you can get pummeled horrendously (those games having been designed to devour quarters).

As far as the meaning behind the protaganists, the fact that they are escapist empowerment fantasies goes without saying. After all that is what video games and other media are for.

I think that the dark turn that everything has taken is due to the simple fact that people have become increasingly cynical, and anything that is too straightforward in the "goodness triumphs" or in portraying anyone as being a straightforward hero is too sappy. Everything has to be dark, gritty, and anti-heroic for people to take it seriously or achieve suspension of disbelief.

Add to the fact that for whatever reason the gaming community is extremely liberal, and you run into problems with the entire "violence solves problems" mentality that drives an action game of this sort. By the logic of a goodly portion of the consumers, someone would have to be fairly twisted to take this kind of approach to conflict. What's more, I think a lot of the elements being recycled like monsters and fighting against some equivilent of The Devil is because it's considered "wrong" to have anything short of that be brutalized that way. The more realistic the opposition, the more outcry a game gets. Look at "Resident Evil 5" as an example when the most unrealistic thing about it was inserting so many white people to try and be politically correct. The days of being able to have some action hero pound a bunch of russians, or even gang-bangers, are gone, or at least for a goodly portion of the people who play games.... today you make a game about how a few clean cut white guys get a friend/daughter/girlfriend kidnapped and head into the ghetto to rescue her from the evil gang bangers, and if somehow they avoid racial criticisms, you had better prepare yourself for it on a social level. While it wasn't as vocal, think about some of the reactions games like "Condemned" got from the portrayal of the homeless and beating them to death.

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As far as "Trickle Down Economics" I actually agree with the theory, I think one of the big problems was that it was a long term plan and didn't start to come into it's own until the Clinton days, at which point the economic strategy changed as the people in charge couldn't (or wouldn't) maintain what was going on. It was a long time ago, but I pretty much feel that Clinton had the country at one of it's most prosperous times largely because he happened to be President when Reagan's policies were seeing results, but he wasn't Reagan, and his people weren't Reagan's people and the philsophies were very differant which lead to management changes that didn't turn out well in the long run.

Such are my thoughts, but it's not really a place for this kin dof arguement. I only give my opinion on it because it was mentioned, and figured that for balance I'd point out that not everyone thinks it's a bad thing (all jokes aside).

 

[EatPieYes]

Heh, that's the kind of Extra Punctuations I like to read, I always picture the ZP like a staged shows where Yahtzee jumps around the cage flinging poo at the face of onlookers, and then comes the XP where he changes into a robe with a pipe sitting in the living room with a chimney talking you down with his intellectual prowess haha.

And yeah That's weird but I gotta admit this XP was better than the ZP last week. I just wished I was quoted...

Best description of the two different punctuations I've ever read.

 

[beetrain]

You know what? I really never notice shaky cam unless it's drawn to my attention. I guess I'm too focused on the action.

 

[Labcoat Samurai]

Apart from not *technically* being true, due to Gabriel being a different sort of protagonist, why exactly do you think this is? Might it be because you cherry picked? Bayonetta and Castlevania share a timed block/dodge slowdown mechanic that none of the other games have. God of War shares multiple selectable primary weapons with Ninja Gaiden II, and Castlevania does not have this. Ninja Gaiden II and Heavenly Sword both have chain weapons.

Almost everything you listed is *extremely* common in action games to the point that nearly every one has it. The only exceptions are chain weapons and grab finishers. These aren't the feature for feature copies you want to make them out to be.

Is that the new Eau de Fanboy cologne from Calvin Klein? Wherever did you get it?

Your mom likes it too. I've just come from her house, which is why I'm wearing it

Seriously, though.... yeah, I like the game. I guess that makes me a fan of it. What's your point?

 

[Ampersand]

The only issue i have with this subject is that every game that you have said is like god of war(regardless of whether it was made before or after) was far better the God of war. GOW was a barely decent hack and slasher with poor level design and boring combat (not to mention a hollow and pointless main character). Frankly saying that any of these games are "like god of war" is giving GOW credit that it hasn't earned.

 

[Ampersand]

Oh and on the shaky cam thing thing, I think it's Gears of wars fault.

 

[FionaPhocidae]

Maybe Dante's Inferno was just setting up for a Monkey Island 2-esque twist, where it turns out Yahtzee's theory is right, but then it gets ret-conned in favor of more sequels.

 

[Redd]

Heh, that's the kind of Extra Punctuations I like to read, I always picture the ZP like a staged shows where Yahtzee jumps around the cage flinging poo at the face of onlookers, and then comes the XP where he changes into a robe with a pipe sitting in the living room with a chimney talking you down with his intellectual prowess haha.

And yeah That's weird but I gotta admit this XP was better than the ZP last week. I just wished I was quoted...

Best description of the two different punctuations I've ever read.

I concur.

OT: Look, I bought LoS before the review. I enjoyed it. It was a time filler for me, but not more then that. I thought it was cheeky how they took things from other games and tried to build on it. They didn't really..build on it though as much as just take it and stick it in the game with some duct tape. But I digress. I enjoy ZP and XP because I know how Yahtzee is. Even if he says a game is horrible and I happen to like it, I don't go rabid fanboy on him. I usually just say " Hmm, he may be right. LOL penis joke! " And that's all you can really do. Unless you're a rabid fanboy in which case, grow up. Not everyone likes what you like and no one has to hold your hand and sing songs with you.