Shaky Cam Games

Therumancer

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Nov 28, 2007
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Truthfully there have only been a few movies that have done the "camcorder footage" thing, despite hundreds of imitators of those scant full successes. Truthfully I am surprised that the gaming industry has been trying to do the same thing.

With movies that do a "shaky cam" in a few select scenes, as opposed to for a "faus documentary" effect I refer to it as the "Aliens Syndrome" that is to say that they shoot the scene in the dark anytime anything happens and have the camera jump around to conveinently miss anything that would require a big-budget "money scene". In some cases (like Aliens) it works, in others it seemes like what it is: cutting corners for the FX budget.

Oddly though there isn't even any money to be saved by doing things this way.


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As far as "God Of War" goes, I tend to think of games of that sort as "Brawlers" being the descendants of games like "Final Fight" and "River City Ransom", rather than calling them "Hack and Slash", as I don't think they are differant enough to really deserve a seperate designation. On the other hand your (Yahtzee) "Spectacle Fighter" designation does make a certain degree of sense in the case of games where a goodly portion of the enemies provide no signifigant threat whatsoever, compared to say "Double Dragon" or "Final Fight" or whatever where a couple of bad moves and you can get pummeled horrendously (those games having been designed to devour quarters).

As far as the meaning behind the protaganists, the fact that they are escapist empowerment fantasies goes without saying. After all that is what video games and other media are for.

I think that the dark turn that everything has taken is due to the simple fact that people have become increasingly cynical, and anything that is too straightforward in the "goodness triumphs" or in portraying anyone as being a straightforward hero is too sappy. Everything has to be dark, gritty, and anti-heroic for people to take it seriously or achieve suspension of disbelief.

Add to the fact that for whatever reason the gaming community is extremely liberal, and you run into problems with the entire "violence solves problems" mentality that drives an action game of this sort. By the logic of a goodly portion of the consumers, someone would have to be fairly twisted to take this kind of approach to conflict. What's more, I think a lot of the elements being recycled like monsters and fighting against some equivilent of The Devil is because it's considered "wrong" to have anything short of that be brutalized that way. The more realistic the opposition, the more outcry a game gets. Look at "Resident Evil 5" as an example when the most unrealistic thing about it was inserting so many white people to try and be politically correct. The days of being able to have some action hero pound a bunch of russians, or even gang-bangers, are gone, or at least for a goodly portion of the people who play games.... today you make a game about how a few clean cut white guys get a friend/daughter/girlfriend kidnapped and head into the ghetto to rescue her from the evil gang bangers, and if somehow they avoid racial criticisms, you had better prepare yourself for it on a social level. While it wasn't as vocal, think about some of the reactions games like "Condemned" got from the portrayal of the homeless and beating them to death.

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As far as "Trickle Down Economics" I actually agree with the theory, I think one of the big problems was that it was a long term plan and didn't start to come into it's own until the Clinton days, at which point the economic strategy changed as the people in charge couldn't (or wouldn't) maintain what was going on. It was a long time ago, but I pretty much feel that Clinton had the country at one of it's most prosperous times largely because he happened to be President when Reagan's policies were seeing results, but he wasn't Reagan, and his people weren't Reagan's people and the philsophies were very differant which lead to management changes that didn't turn out well in the long run.

Such are my thoughts, but it's not really a place for this kin dof arguement. I only give my opinion on it because it was mentioned, and figured that for balance I'd point out that not everyone thinks it's a bad thing (all jokes aside).
 

EatPieYes

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Jul 22, 2010
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Misho- said:
Heh, that's the kind of Extra Punctuations I like to read, I always picture the ZP like a staged shows where Yahtzee jumps around the cage flinging poo at the face of onlookers, and then comes the XP where he changes into a robe with a pipe sitting in the living room with a chimney talking you down with his intellectual prowess haha.

And yeah That's weird but I gotta admit this XP was better than the ZP last week. I just wished I was quoted...
Best description of the two different punctuations I've ever read.
 

beetrain

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Nov 17, 2009
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You know what? I really never notice shaky cam unless it's drawn to my attention. I guess I'm too focused on the action.
 

Labcoat Samurai

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Feb 4, 2010
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ohgodalex said:
Labcoat Samurai said:
Apart from not *technically* being true, due to Gabriel being a different sort of protagonist, why exactly do you think this is? Might it be because you cherry picked? Bayonetta and Castlevania share a timed block/dodge slowdown mechanic that none of the other games have. God of War shares multiple selectable primary weapons with Ninja Gaiden II, and Castlevania does not have this. Ninja Gaiden II and Heavenly Sword both have chain weapons.

Almost everything you listed is *extremely* common in action games to the point that nearly every one has it. The only exceptions are chain weapons and grab finishers. These aren't the feature for feature copies you want to make them out to be.
Is that the new Eau de Fanboy cologne from Calvin Klein? Wherever did you get it?
Your mom likes it too. I've just come from her house, which is why I'm wearing it ;)

Seriously, though.... yeah, I like the game. I guess that makes me a fan of it. What's your point?
 

Ampersand

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May 1, 2010
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The only issue i have with this subject is that every game that you have said is like god of war(regardless of whether it was made before or after) was far better the God of war. GOW was a barely decent hack and slasher with poor level design and boring combat (not to mention a hollow and pointless main character). Frankly saying that any of these games are "like god of war" is giving GOW credit that it hasn't earned.
 

FionaPhocidae

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Mar 19, 2009
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Maybe Dante's Inferno was just setting up for a Monkey Island 2-esque twist, where it turns out Yahtzee's theory is right, but then it gets ret-conned in favor of more sequels.
 

Redd

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Sep 2, 2009
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EatPieYes said:
Misho- said:
Heh, that's the kind of Extra Punctuations I like to read, I always picture the ZP like a staged shows where Yahtzee jumps around the cage flinging poo at the face of onlookers, and then comes the XP where he changes into a robe with a pipe sitting in the living room with a chimney talking you down with his intellectual prowess haha.

And yeah That's weird but I gotta admit this XP was better than the ZP last week. I just wished I was quoted...
Best description of the two different punctuations I've ever read.
I concur.

OT: Look, I bought LoS before the review. I enjoyed it. It was a time filler for me, but not more then that. I thought it was cheeky how they took things from other games and tried to build on it. They didn't really..build on it though as much as just take it and stick it in the game with some duct tape. But I digress. I enjoy ZP and XP because I know how Yahtzee is. Even if he says a game is horrible and I happen to like it, I don't go rabid fanboy on him. I usually just say " Hmm, he may be right. LOL penis joke! " And that's all you can really do. Unless you're a rabid fanboy in which case, grow up. Not everyone likes what you like and no one has to hold your hand and sing songs with you.
 

SFR

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Mar 26, 2009
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I really hope the last actual paragraph was a joke. If not, Yatzee has some serious problems and probably shouldn't be aloud to tell anyone anything. Based on the way they were worded probably shows he was kidding, but just in case, you've got to remember people play games to be someone else. Oh, and unless RE5 was called Resident Evil 5: How to Hate Your Fellow "Minority", playing it is in no way racist. I will tell you one thing, if there were no black people in the game it'd be even more racist.

Yeah, I know, the tribal parts. Blah blah blah. It's called enemy variation. Get over it.

Edit: Also, I loved Clover-field. I thought they did the camera movement perfectly. Then again, my stomach doesn't suck.
 

Fists

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Apr 16, 2009
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But I'm a [closet] emo, selfish, self-hating, [maybe not] physically weak, sexist, responsibility-avoiding whiner who sympathizes with Republican economic policies and I didn't really like God of War. I much rather running around as a demi-god in sandboxes like oblivion.
 

badgersprite

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Sep 22, 2009
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Shaky cam in games would only work well in something survival horror like Silent Hill. I know the first game threw a couple of angles like this at the player, and that sense of not knowing what you're looking at or feeling out of control is exactly what you want in a game where the very atmosphere is supposed to be hostile towards you. In survival horror, feeling like you can't see anything actually works, which is why this shaky cam technique is so frequent in the horror film genre. It doesn't work in action or shoot em ups.
 

Spelonker

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Nov 15, 2009
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Well Yahtzee, the reason I'm guessing "shaky/handheld cam" is being used in games now is because of how they're going for a more "cinematic" feel these days. Handheld camera is used in films when there's a real intense scene going on and isn't just relegated to "Cloverfield" or "Blair Witch". Pick almost any modern film and you'll notice camera shake in the intense scenes, weither they're action packed, or just emotional. It's usually very subtle in film, but it obviously doesn't go well in games when it's constantly there. Makes you feel drunk.

What I do think works well is camera shake when it's reflected in gameplay. Like when you give someone a nice strong attack and the screen shakes a little, or if there's an explosion. It works nicely with the vibration of the controller too. And actually, I can think of a good few action games that use this. God of War for example. And thus we've come full circle. Very Buddhist.
 

Labcoat Samurai

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Feb 4, 2010
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Redd said:
OT: Look, I bought LoS before the review. I enjoyed it. It was a time filler for me, but not more then that. I thought it was cheeky how they took things from other games and tried to build on it. They didn't really..build on it though as much as just take it and stick it in the game with some duct tape. But I digress. I enjoy ZP and XP because I know how Yahtzee is. Even if he says a game is horrible and I happen to like it, I don't go rabid fanboy on him. I usually just say " Hmm, he may be right. LOL penis joke! " And that's all you can really do. Unless you're a rabid fanboy in which case, grow up. Not everyone likes what you like and no one has to hold your hand and sing songs with you.
I don't get it. It seems that the people who want to hold hands and sing songs are the ones who can't tolerate disagreement. Not everyone agrees with Yahtzee. Is the reaction thread not the appropriate place to say so? If not, then what's the point of the reaction thread? Are we all supposed to share our favorite Yahtzee joke? If so, how boring.

Honestly, if I think Yahtzee is on form, funny, and insightful (which, yes, I do sometimes), I can't think of anything I care to say in the reaction thread. His ego is fine, and he doesn't need me to stroke it.

I can't think of many things more insipid or redundant than 10 pages of comments about how brilliant Yahtzee's latest video/column was.

EDIT: rereading this, I think I sound more bitter and cynical than I actually feel. Pretend I added some smileys or something maybe....
 

Grygor

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Oct 26, 2010
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Lerxst said:
It has quick light attacks and slow heavy attacks, as well as combos involving the two, air combos and the ability to grab and instakill the enemy with the circle button if you're just completely bored with tossing the guy around. You gather souls from enemies and use them to upgrade your combos and magic spells you learn along the way, and collect things that eventually make your health and magic bars bigger. Then at the end of it you kill whoever the local equivalent of Satan is.
Sorry Yahtzee, but I'd have to say "like Castlevania" should have been the phrase. I don't mean the new Castelvania games, I mean the old, classic ones. They have all of these features:

Collect souls - collect hearts
Instakill - special weapons
Kill Satan - Dracula

The other details are in both games as well, especially if you take into consideration Symphony of the Night.
Yeah, I don't think this really works:

It has quick light attacks and slow heavy attacks, Not really. There's only a single normal attack button until you get to Symphony of the Night, and even there, it's left hand and right hand, and while you can turn this into light/heavy with the right equipment choices, it's not quite the same thing, and doesn't serve the same function.

as well as combos involving the two, Definitely not. No combos of any kind.

air combos and the ability to grab and instakill the enemy with the circle button if you're just completely bored with tossing the guy around. The special weapons you mentioned above don't count. They don't function as finishers, they don't kill instantly, and some of them don't do any damage whatsoever. They're supplemental weapons that give the player offensive control over more of the play field, which is something entirely different from an instakill move.

You gather souls from enemies and use them to upgrade your combos and magic spells you learn along the way, Castlevania hearts are used to fuel special weapons, not upgrade your abilities. And hearts are obtained primarily by breaking candles; enemies rarely drop them. The "metroidvanias" add money, but this is used primarily to buy items - ability upgrades are generally found lying around the castle. The closest thing to this is in Aria of Sorrow and Dawn of Sorrow, but even then, the souls you obtain from enemies ARE the spells, rather than being exchanged for them later (although DoS allows you to exchange souls for weapon upgrades).

and collect things that eventually make your health and magic bars bigger. In the older 2D CV games, both bars are fixed in size - but since damage received increases as you progress through the game, your life bar actually gets effectively shorter. For the metroidvanias, it depends on the game - Symphony of the Night, for example, has collectibles that increase your life and heart meters, while in Aria of Sorrow they grow automatically as your level increases.

Then at the end of it you kill whoever the local equivalent of Satan is. I'll give you this one; in the Castlevania series, Dracula basically IS Satan.
 

Labcoat Samurai

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Grygor said:
Yeah, I don't think this really works:

[snip]
You make a number of spot on points here. It is an enormous stretch to compare the gameplay mechanics of LoS to classic Castlevania games. But what exactly *should* they have done? One attack button and no combos? At least you do find subweapon ammo by breaking candles and whatnot. And the art design *is* very true to the series.

But otherwise, most of these features are as common in the genre as regenerating health in modern FPSs or chest high walls in cover based shooters. Yahtzee was almost ready to concede that what we really have is a genre with lots of common elements. And he should have, because that would be accurate. I'm sure I could cherry pick the same number of things between just about any two games within the same genre in order to call them clones of each other. It doesn't prove a thing.

Here, let's give it a try:

All happens because of an experiment gone horribly wrong, an Alien infestation infects people and turns them into murderous monsters, you have access to various futuristic guns, the protagonist is a scientist who never says a word the entire game, and it ultimately ends with a battle against a massive boss on an alien world which you don't visit until nearly the end of the game.

There. Dead Space = Half-Life. Except it really, really doesn't.

I'll grant CV and GoW share more in common than Dead Space and Half-Life, but my point is that the spin game is easy to play, and a handful of distorted, cherry-picked similarities proves nothing.
 

LimeJester

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Mar 16, 2009
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While I don't think Yahtzee is too far off with his pop-culture analysis, I feel the need to point out that the physically strong hero representing the relative weakness of the general population is has been a feature of literature since the very beginning in many different region's myths. It just used to be a response to the powerlessness against the environment, the struggle for survival, not your Father for not letting you take the car out last Friday night, GOD!
 

AceAngel

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I wonder if Yahtzee ever get depressed...because you know, half of the people posting are MISSING THE BLOODY POINT in his EP.
 

ResiEvalJohn

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Nov 23, 2009
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It makes so much sense now! I always hated RE5, but I blamed that hate on the shitty Co-op system. Now that I know it's because I'm not racist, I feel so much more enlightened :p
 

mikespoff

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Oct 29, 2009
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Rocketboy13 said:
"So, if God of War is popular, it's because lots of people today are emo, selfish, self-hating, physically weak, sexist, responsibility-avoiding whiners who sympathize with Republican economic policies." -Crosshaw

I very much like this theory, might explain why everyone also like zombie games, you picture yourself as the only person with a brain left to be eaten by the monstrous hordes of mall going consumers.
You make a good point (as does Yahtzee in the post). The original fascination and horror of zombies (as characters) is driven by the uncanny-valley dread of something resembling a human body, but with no mind or spirit. The fascination with the zombie genre, on the other hand, seems more likely to be driven by consumers who imagine that they are the only people left who aren't like, you know, slaves to that whole media-driven consumerist bullsh*t, dude.