Shigeru Miyamoto Says His Rivals Are Boring, Samey

[Toadfish1]

Snip.

Interesting, but sold to retailers is different to sold to customers. The number sold to consumers is the detail they don't seem to mention.

That seems kinda nitpicky. Besides, you really think that over a quarter of all Xbox Ones in existence are sitting on store shelves?

 

[CaptainMarvelous]

Yo Miyamoto. Tim Schafer has more unique creative output in single summer than you have had in your entire career. If he had the enormous resources you have, I guaran-freakin-tee you he wouldn't have Raz playing tennis against Sonic the Hedgehog.

So nyeh.

Are you honestly saying Tim Schafer is more creative than Miyamoto? You think the guy who made Brutal Legend is more innovative than the guy who invented the jump button?
Jesus, that's not even a case of opinion, that's just flat-out unreasonable. I got nothing against Tim Schafer but seriously, dude, look into what he did for the industry before saying such things, you know not of what you speak.

I am, and I do.

Saying Miyamoto is the most creative videogame developer in the industry is like saying the caveman who carved the first wheel is the best automotive manufacturer. Schafer has only been making games since the 1980's, but he is constantly moving forward and trying something new with everything he does. Even if it turns out poorly (Read: Combat in Full Throttle). He bangs out a dozen entirely new game mechanics every year. Some of them are amazing, some of them aren't, but he is still creating.

Schafer has been pushing the envelope, hard, with his games, his writing, and the way he runs his businesses, for 25 years. Miyamoto made a handful of successful IPs and rode the success of a videogame industry giant the rest of the way.

Are you seriously going to try to convince me the man who made "Wii Sports Resort" has a single ounce of relevance left? He is wealthy and well known. That's it at this point.

I kinda of am, yeah.
I feel like you're giving Tim Schafer a lot more leeway on this than you're giving Miyamoto; what you say is pushing the envelope usually boils down to being inventive with existing ideas. Psychonauts, which is a f*cking amazing game, draws from a lot of sources. Crash Bandicoot's style of platforming, Spyro's style of character design, just fused with his own skill for comic writing. This is nothing against the game, but it has influences. Schafer does his own thing with it but, at best, it's Crash Bandicoot as written by Tim Schafer. Which was awesome but isn't on the same level as Miyamoto.
Around the same time, Miyamoto came out with Pikmin and I will defend that original outings inventiveness to the death. It takes on RTS elements in the vaguest possible sense, structured itself around avoiding combat and was inspired by when he spent some time gardening. Comparison, Schafer came up with Full Throttle after he spent some time in a biker bar and realised how weird they sound to outsiders.
Again, I don't want to slam Tim Schafer because then this stops being a debate and starts being a "My dad can beat up your dad" contest.

But if we're talking innovations that affected the industry, Miyamoto was heavily involved in the Wii and HOW MANY consoles now have motion sensing of some form installed?
Schafer's contributions to gaming are heavy, he pretty much came up with solid comic writing integrated into storytelling in gaming.
But Miyamoto came up with gameplay, man. And he still IS, you can't just ignore all that, it's still ongoing.

 

[Halla Burrica]

I still find it hard to understand the criticism Nintendo gets for "remaking the same games over and over". What, their franchises has reoccuring characters, names, themes and gameplay elements? Welcome to every game franchise ever that's lasted more than 2 years. Give me one main series Metal Gear Solid game that isn't about some guy called Snake, has themes about war and politics and which gameplay mainly revolves aroud sneaking and infiltating with options for different approaches. Give me one Hitman game that doesn't have you play as Agent 47 and has gameplay that mainly involves you assassinating people and gives you different ways of doing so. Give me one Megaman game where you don't play as a human-like robot stopping an evil madman from taking over the world defeating his robot minions along the way and gaining new powers when you defeat them. Or a God of War game where you don't play as Kratos, brutally tearing through any obstacle standing in your way with hack and slash gameplay. Or just one motherfucking Half-Life game that doesn't have you play as Gordon Freeman (blue shift and opposing force were expansion packs), do jumping and physics puzzles, gives you an increasingly wide arsenal of weapons and has enviromental storytelling.


The thing about franchises is that they can have these recurring things, because they are franchises, without using these kinds of elements again and again they wouldn't be able to call themselves that. So really, what is Nintendo's big sin here? I honestly want to know, because it's nearly impossible to get anything out of these criticisms that have NOTHING that back them up. I'm not even really sure if they have anything backing them up, or if they're just regurgitating what Yathzee said because "that's what the cool kids do".

 

[Aiddon_v1legacy]

You do know that the profits for Microsofty and Sony's game divisions are higher than Nintendo's, right?

Except they aren't. At all. When you get down to it, Sony is still in the toilet financially and no matter how much people keep trying to bring up the PS4's success, it has done nothing to dispel the giant black hole the PS3 left. And that's before we get into how Sony as a whole is floundering in all sectors (heck, they're poised to post another billion dollar loss this year). And I don't even need to get into MS' gigantic money-eater that is their gaming division. Or how 3rd parties are struggling to become profitable due to mismanagement and frivolous spending that they could stop at a moment's notice but choose not to.

But it's not about facts, is it? The facts are that Nintendo is completely fine and everyone else is on thin ice they like to pretend is solid ground despite it cracking constantly. And that ruins the narrative. It ruins the idea that Nintendo is in need of saving and must repent for its sins or some other bizarre logic that exists in the minds of people who bash them. If Nintendo is in trouble then everyone else should be dead.

 

[Razhem]

Yo Miyamoto. Tim Schafer has more unique creative output in single summer than you have had in your entire career. If he had the enormous resources you have, I guaran-freakin-tee you he wouldn't have Raz playing tennis against Sonic the Hedgehog.

So nyeh.

Are you honestly saying Tim Schafer is more creative than Miyamoto? You think the guy who made Brutal Legend is more innovative than the guy who invented the jump button?
Jesus, that's not even a case of opinion, that's just flat-out unreasonable. I got nothing against Tim Schafer but seriously, dude, look into what he did for the industry before saying such things, you know not of what you speak.

I am, and I do.

Saying Miyamoto is the most creative videogame developer in the industry is like saying the caveman who carved the first wheel is the best automotive manufacturer. Schafer has only been making games since the 1980's, but he is constantly moving forward and trying something new with everything he does. Even if it turns out poorly (Read: Combat in Full Throttle). He bangs out a dozen entirely new game mechanics every year. Some of them are amazing, some of them aren't, but he is still creating.

Schafer has been pushing the envelope, hard, with his games, his writing, and the way he runs his businesses, for 25 years. Miyamoto made a handful of successful IPs and rode the success of a videogame industry giant the rest of the way.

Are you seriously going to try to convince me the man who made "Wii Sports Resort" has a single ounce of relevance left? He is wealthy and well known. That's it at this point.

Seems to me you are confusing creative with witty. Schaffer from what I hear is a fantastic writter and a very witty guy, he is also good with a narrative. Also, almost all of his games have recieved one or more critical comments about their gameplay. Psychonauts? great atmosphere, fantastic visuals, but it was still an okeish platformer gameplay wise. Brutal legend? an ode to metal, clever humor, awesome references, but ut was a bad mishmash of genres that never actually clicked. There is a reason why he is at his best in the point and click genre where pretty much the only thing you need is to be clever and have cool visuals.

 

[chozo_hybrid]

Snip.

Interesting, but sold to retailers is different to sold to customers. The number sold to consumers is the detail they don't seem to mention.

That seems kinda nitpicky. Besides, you really think that over a quarter of all Xbox Ones in existence are sitting on store shelves?

Nit-picky? No, I'm just stating a fact. I'm not saying I know how many are sold to consumers, I just find it interesting that they announce the amount sold to retailers, but not how many have been sold to the end user.

Having worked in games retail in the past, I think it's entirely possible there is a decent amount sitting on store shelves. There usually is for most consumer products, otherwise you would always be out of stock and couldn't sell any with relative ease, which leads to customers getting frustrated.

 

[Toadfish1]

You do know that the profits for Microsofty and Sony's game divisions are higher than Nintendo's, right?

Except they aren't. At all. When you get down to it, Sony is still in the toilet financially and no matter how much people keep trying to bring up the PS4's success, it has done nothing to dispel the giant black hole the PS3 left. And that's before we get into how Sony as a whole is floundering in all sectors (heck, they're poised to post another billion dollar loss this year). And I don't even need to get into MS' gigantic money-eater that is their gaming division. Or how 3rd parties are struggling to become profitable due to mismanagement and frivolous spending that they could stop at a moment's notice but choose not to.

But it's not about facts, is it? The facts are that Nintendo is completely fine and everyone else is on thin ice they like to pretend is solid ground despite it cracking constantly. And that ruins the narrative. It ruins the idea that Nintendo is in need of saving and must repent for its sins or some other bizarre logic that exists in the minds of people who bash them. If Nintendo is in trouble then everyone else should be dead.

I wasn't aware that things moved from 2008 to 2013 with no years in between. Which would explain why you're trying to talk about how the industry was 5 years ago as if its still relevant today.

The Ps3 was eventually profitable over its lifespan, so there is no black hole. The only thing the Ps4 is recouperating is its own initial tech investment, since each console sold is pure profit. Add in the high attachment rate, and its clear to see why you had to ignore what I said about limitting it to the games divisions to try and salvage an argument.

And yes, Nintendo are so sturdy, with their fanbase that has been stangant since 1994, and showing they have absolutely no clue how to do anything except continue appealling to their existing fanbase and absolutely nobody else.

 

[Toadfish1]

Snip.

Interesting, but sold to retailers is different to sold to customers. The number sold to consumers is the detail they don't seem to mention.

That seems kinda nitpicky. Besides, you really think that over a quarter of all Xbox Ones in existence are sitting on store shelves?

Nit-picky? No, I'm just stating a fact. I'm not saying I know how many are sold to consumers, I just find it interesting that they announce the amount sold to retailers, but not how many have been sold to the end user.

Having worked in games retail in the past, I think it's entirely possible there is a decent amount sitting on store shelves. There usually is for most consumer products, otherwise you would always be out of stock and couldn't sell any with relative ease, which leads to customers getting frustrated.

Yeah, but still, 25% of all existing units?

 

[hermes]

I could come here and make a comment about how hypocrite the idea of Nintendo shamming other companies for doing the same thing over and over again is, or how Miyamoto (influential and seminal as he is) should refrain from calling other people "boring", at least out of professional respect.

I could, but I won't... mostly because I read the original interview and the escapist article on it is a biased summary, aimed at flaming controversy.

 

[chozo_hybrid]

Snip.

I already gave an explanation as to why it may be, but like I said, we don't know exact numbers of how many have been bought by consumers etc. It's entirely possible that it could be 25% when you consider how many countries the machine is sold in.

I'm not sure what else I can say, I've given my thoughts on this. Which you seem to doubt, and that's fine. But like I said, they haven't released the information on units sold to customers as opposed to retailers, which implies they may not be doing quite as well as they seem. Then again, maybe I'm reading too much into it. Who knows. We certainly don't.

 

[Dragonbums]

You mean like bugs in pokemon games that can totaly ruin your save game and had to be patched?

You act like bugs in Pokemon games are a common thing. They aren't. In fact, they hardly ever happen (and that goes for a lot of other Nintendo franchises as well.) this is the most recent glitch to ever grace a Pokemon game in recent memory. And it wasn't bugs it was one bug. A bug that got fixed in like 4 days. A bug that they even put out a map of the city for so players could avoid it as much as possible. And since then, there hasn't been a single bug of that caliber found in the Pokemon game itself.

Dude the time where nintendo was the only one who brought out a bugfree product are over.. they also are now slowly but surely embracing the "patch it later" aproach to gaming.

Hardly. There were always bugs in past Nintendo games. You know all those exploits speedrunners do and all that. You can't catch everything, and Nintendo makes damn well sure that they keep their patch fixing to a minimum. I mean, come on you even had P* games state that the amount of attention Nintendo puts into polish and perfection was off putting even for them. And why wouldn't they at least embrace the luxury of patches. At least they can fix those bugs now.

And while there might be no yearly mario jump and run, that little italian apears every year in another game.

No shit, he's the company mascot. Why is this a surprise to anyone? But even then Mario appearing in games is a lot different than Mario being the game.

Also they introduce features, and then drop them as fast as they picked them up,

Your gonna have to be more specific because there are plenty of features that have transcended Nintendo games over the years.

they force developers to somehow incorporate their nonsensic gimmicks like motion control into their games even if said game has absolutely no use for it, monsterh unter for example..

Still better about the Wii? Or are you talking about the Wii U? The console where the majority of third party games hardly use the Gamepad feature. If it's even used at all. I don't recall any dev saying they were forced to do something with the Gamepad. I mean, why aren't you complaining about how devs who wanted to make things for the PS3 had to relearn everything for POWERFUL CELL PROCESSING.

its a chore to use the motioncontrols so capcom delivered the game with a classic controller.

And in a single sentence you just contradicted yourself. I thought you said devs were forced to use motion controls? And yet Capcom was able to make a game on a Nintendo platform using a regular controller?

Same with the Wii Us controller screen. Then theres the aparant lack of machine power behind the Wii U and nintendos divaness when it comes to working with them that makes the whole ordeal completly unpleasant for western developers.

Western developers whine about everything these days. It really doesn't matter what Nintendo does. They will find another reason to cry about it. It's a wonder why they haven't just dropped consoles and go to PC. After all PC is supposedly the most limitless platform of them all.

Myamoto is just bitter that no one kept for capcom and sega want to even develope any titles for nintendos flagship console and that it most likely will degenerate to another shovelware machine with some decent games thrown in the mix.

That's quite a bold claim and quite a twist of words from what the man actually said. How do you know that he's even talking about Capcom and Sega? We literally don't know who he's addressing in the slightest because he namedropped a total of zero people/studios/companies. Especially considering that Sega is still making games for Nintendo? It seems that your the bitter one here.

Oh and i guess you must have missed them rereleasing the same old games over and over again like some of the zelda games. Yeah... "innovation" my ass. Innovation isnt throwing in a single random gimmick that only kinda sorta works and then call it a day.

Assasins Creed is a much younger game than Zelda and if I'm not mistaken they have already surpassed the amount of entries the LoZ series has in it's entirety.

Everyone clamors for a new Zelda because a new Zelda comes out like what- every 4-5 years? As opposed to the yearly or less CoD.

Myamoto cant claim that other games are boring because its allways the same and then have an entire library of titles that are ALLWAYS the same kept for whatever controller gimmick their console comes with this time latched on.

They are only the same in IP. That's it. No two games tend to have the same gameplay, features, or even story/setting. The only thing keeping LoZ a LoZ game is that link is in it. But the last installment had a sky city with giant birds, the one before that took place in grim, fantasy land with alternate dimesions, the one before it took place on a vast ocean spared by water.

If that wasn't the case you wouldn't be having people making the joke "Gritty white dude the AAA squad" videogames. Because by that logic one can have a "diverse" range of games so long as the protagonist looks different from the last one, but they slapped him in the same shit over and over again.

After all i didnt say that the games themselves are bad, just that the guy should prolly stop throwing around huge boulders while sitting in a glasshouse.

Throwing huge boulders? Considering how we complain about the very thing he talks about on a daily basis he's far from wrong. I mean, it's not like the man hasn't been making new IP's. But we love to nitpick and "disregard" things we don't consider true games. This is a man who I believe loves the shit out of Angry Birds.

Lets also keep in mind that he hasn't really been at the forefront of many of his IP's for a while. The recent Zelda games have all been done by Aunoma. Miyamoto said that he hardly needs to be there for his own damn series.

I mean, for all the complaining about Nintendo and new IP's y'all are quick to ignore the ones that do showup. Nobody is talking about the giant fighting robot game he showed at E3, nobody is talking about Code S.T.E.A.M, nobody is talking about Splatoon, and these are THREE new IP's shown front and center at E3.

Classic.

 

[Aiddon_v1legacy]

I wasn't aware that things moved from 2008 to 2013 with no years in between. Which would explain why you're trying to talk about how the industry was 5 years ago as if its still relevant today.

The Ps3 was eventually profitable over its lifespan, so there is no black hole. The only thing the Ps4 is recouperating is its own initial tech investment, since each console sold is pure profit. Add in the high attachment rate, and its clear to see why you had to ignore what I said about limitting it to the games divisions to try and salvage an argument.

Again, another lie. From 2008 to 2012 they never made one cent. Sony was nothing more than giant, money-eating swamp that sucked everyone into it. The only reason they made a profit last year was due to desperation by either laying people off or selling HQs. And judging by how they're set to post ANOTHER loss this year, they're not out of the woods. In fact, their ONE profitable year last year was PALTRY when you keep in mind you're talking about Sony as a whole.

And yes, Nintendo are so sturdy, with their fanbase that has been stangant since 1994, and showing they have absolutely no clue how to do anything except continue appealling to their existing fanbase and absolutely nobody else.

Except anyone who thinks for five seconds finds the fallacy in that right away. They are the ONLY company in the entire industry who saw the writing on the wall and decided that they needed to not just broaden THEIR audience (which, when you get down to it, other companies just try to steal audience members away from other companies) but the gaming audience as a whole. And of course every other company turned their nose up at that because like American comics in the 90s, they chose to pander towards a continually shrinking fanbase. The kind of audience that most other companies appeal to is not one that has any long-term growth. And of course it's going to take them floundering financially to realize that.

I mean, for all the complaining about Nintendo and new IP's y'all are quick to ignore the ones that do showup. Nobody is talking about the giant fighting robot game he showed at E3, nobody is talking about Code S.T.E.A.M, nobody is talking about Splatoon, and these are THREE new IP's shown front and center at E3.

Classic.

That and the fact that, when you break it down, most "new IPs" are that in name only. It's another mantra that Miyamoto has said before: a new property has to be more than just a name. And that's why I have seen this "new IP" craze for what it really is: a way for lazy, uncreative dipshits to pretend that their derivative, cliche titles are unique just because they don't have a previously established name on the box. Nintendo does make new IPs, but not for the sake of just making them. They're in it for the long run with new names and thus have to considered if they bring anything new to the table for the company. That's why stuff like Captain Toad, STEAM, and Splatoon are being made; because there is nothing quite like them already in Nintendo's roster.

 

[Lightknight]

"Shame on you for not evolving."
"Instead, you think of game mechanics and then slap old characters on them and "Story" is an afterthought at best. Shameful."

Thee is so much bitterness here I can't even fathom. Shame on them for not evolving into what? The current state of the AAA developer? No thank you. That would only destroy them.

Evolve, to progress, grow, adapt with the times. This is rather than stagnation. It wouldn't be to "evolve" into something else anymore than we could "evolve" into an alligator. Instead, Nintendo remains relatively unchanged over the past two decades. Few to no legitimately new IPs since the early 90's. Maybe pikmin which isn't particularly popular (despite it being one of my favorites). Yet in the past two decades we've seen both Sony and Microsoft come out of nowhere in the industry (PS1 in 1994-1995 and xbox in 2001 ) and absolutely dominate the new IP sphere albeit particularly heavy on the Sony side. Nintendo isn't keeping up and isn't adapting to the new environment. They aren't particularly catering to 3rd party developers either and that's a major way that Sony and Microsoft end up acquiring good studios for future products.

So yeah, shame on them for not even trying. Not shame on them for not becoming like everyone else. But they're just kind of sitting still in a river and letting everyone else pass them by when they should be at the front. They didn't grow up along with us. They're still just catering to the 10-year old who, while admittedly still present in me, doesn't have veto power on the games I buy.

Also how dare they try and focus on the thing that makes video games different from every other entertainment medium on the planet instead of a story. Shame on them indeed.

If Sony and Microsoft can do both, why not Nintendo? They're the pioneers of the industry and now they're just sitting there slack-jawed thinking only of what new mechanic they can slap Mario on next.

Do you not get how old their IPs are? Why haven't they been hard at work creating new ones seeing which ones stick? Miyamoto said that his practice was to create a new mechanic and then try to fit an existing character into it. This stagnates the IP pool and bores it right up. This will work on children who aren't tired of Mario yet and fans who are feeling nostalgic. But those of us who have been in the industry for so many decades, we need more variety than just Nintendo games. It isn't that we want Nintendo to be like everyone else, but if it's a choice between a box that plays Nintendo games and a box that plays everything else then we have to go with the latter because that's so much more content.

We still get games like what Nintendo would make. Little Big Planet being an easy example. But on consoles like the WiiU we don't get the heavy hitting games that would traditionally win game of the year.

Is that so hard to understand or just see from my perspective as a person who likes Nintendo games but places more value on the wealth of other games? Nintendo is just a major publisher. One studio in my mind. I would never limit a console to just one studio. They aren't nearly diverse enough for that and they don't cater to my needs as an adult.

 

[CaitSeith]

"Shame on you for not evolving."
"Instead, you think of game mechanics and then slap old characters on them and "Story" is an afterthought at best. Shameful."

Thee is so much bitterness here I can't even fathom. Shame on them for not evolving into what? The current state of the AAA developer? No thank you. That would only destroy them.

Evolve, to progress, grow, adapt with the times. This is rather than stagnation. It wouldn't be to "evolve" into something else anymore than we could "evolve" into an alligator. Instead, Nintendo remains relatively unchanged over the past two decades. Few to no legitimately new IPs since the early 90's. Maybe pikmin which isn't particularly popular (despite it being one of my favorites). Yet in the past two decades we've seen both Sony and Microsoft come out of nowhere in the industry (PS1 in 1994-1995 and xbox in 2001 ) and absolutely dominate the new IP sphere albeit particularly heavy on the Sony side. Nintendo isn't keeping up and isn't adapting to the new environment. They aren't particularly catering to 3rd party developers either and that's a major way that Sony and Microsoft end up acquiring good studios for future products.

So yeah, shame on them for not even trying. Not shame on them for not becoming like everyone else. But they're just kind of sitting still in a river and letting everyone else pass them by when they should be at the front. They didn't grow up along with us. They're still just catering to the 10-year old who, while admittedly still present in me, doesn't have veto power on the games I buy.

Also how dare they try and focus on the thing that makes video games different from every other entertainment medium on the planet instead of a story. Shame on them indeed.

If Sony and Microsoft can do both, why not Nintendo? They're the pioneers of the industry and now they're just sitting there slack-jawed thinking only of what new mechanic they can slap Mario on next.

Do you not get how old their IPs are? Why haven't they been hard at work creating new ones seeing which ones stick? Miyamoto said that his practice was to create a new mechanic and then try to fit an existing character into it. This stagnates the IP pool and bores it right up. This will work on children who aren't tired of Mario yet and fans who are feeling nostalgic. But those of us who have been in the industry for so many decades, we need more variety than just Nintendo games. It isn't that we want Nintendo to be like everyone else, but if it's a choice between a box that plays Nintendo games and a box that plays everything else then we have to go with the latter because that's so much more content.

We still get games like what Nintendo would make. Little Big Planet being an easy example. But on consoles like the WiiU we don't get the heavy hitting games that would traditionally win game of the year.

Is that so hard to understand or just see from my perspective as a person who likes Nintendo games but places more value on the wealth of other games? Nintendo is just a major publisher. One studio in my mind. I would never limit a console to just one studio. They aren't nearly diverse enough for that and they don't cater to my needs as an adult.

Did you try ZombiU?

 

[chozo_hybrid]

Did you try ZombiU?

He's talking about Nintendo, and that's not a Nintendo game. It's Ubisoft, so I'm not sure it relates to what LightKnight was talking about. It definitely was not a heavy hitter.

 

[CaitSeith]

Did you try ZombiU?

He's talking about Nintendo, and that's not a Nintendo game. It's Ubisoft, so I'm not sure it relates to what LightKnight was talking about. It definitely was not a heavy hitter.

Oops! I blew it completely, didn't I? Still, there is no reason to not recommend ZombiU

 

[CaitSeith]

"Shame on you for not evolving."
"Instead, you think of game mechanics and then slap old characters on them and "Story" is an afterthought at best. Shameful."

Thee is so much bitterness here I can't even fathom. Shame on them for not evolving into what? The current state of the AAA developer? No thank you. That would only destroy them.

Evolve, to progress, grow, adapt with the times. This is rather than stagnation. It wouldn't be to "evolve" into something else anymore than we could "evolve" into an alligator. Instead, Nintendo remains relatively unchanged over the past two decades. Few to no legitimately new IPs since the early 90's. Maybe pikmin which isn't particularly popular (despite it being one of my favorites). Yet in the past two decades we've seen both Sony and Microsoft come out of nowhere in the industry (PS1 in 1994-1995 and xbox in 2001 ) and absolutely dominate the new IP sphere albeit particularly heavy on the Sony side. Nintendo isn't keeping up and isn't adapting to the new environment. They aren't particularly catering to 3rd party developers either and that's a major way that Sony and Microsoft end up acquiring good studios for future products.

So yeah, shame on them for not even trying. Not shame on them for not becoming like everyone else. But they're just kind of sitting still in a river and letting everyone else pass them by when they should be at the front. They didn't grow up along with us. They're still just catering to the 10-year old who, while admittedly still present in me, doesn't have veto power on the games I buy.

Also how dare they try and focus on the thing that makes video games different from every other entertainment medium on the planet instead of a story. Shame on them indeed.

If Sony and Microsoft can do both, why not Nintendo? They're the pioneers of the industry and now they're just sitting there slack-jawed thinking only of what new mechanic they can slap Mario on next.

Do you not get how old their IPs are? Why haven't they been hard at work creating new ones seeing which ones stick? Miyamoto said that his practice was to create a new mechanic and then try to fit an existing character into it. This stagnates the IP pool and bores it right up. This will work on children who aren't tired of Mario yet and fans who are feeling nostalgic. But those of us who have been in the industry for so many decades, we need more variety than just Nintendo games. It isn't that we want Nintendo to be like everyone else, but if it's a choice between a box that plays Nintendo games and a box that plays everything else then we have to go with the latter because that's so much more content.

We still get games like what Nintendo would make. Little Big Planet being an easy example. But on consoles like the WiiU we don't get the heavy hitting games that would traditionally win game of the year.

Is that so hard to understand or just see from my perspective as a person who likes Nintendo games but places more value on the wealth of other games? Nintendo is just a major publisher. One studio in my mind. I would never limit a console to just one studio. They aren't nearly diverse enough for that and they don't cater to my needs as an adult.

Right now that "evolution" would be financial suicide for Nintendo. Not only because they are dependant of their decades old IPs, but because if they do what everybody else does, they can't win. People who have your same "adult needs" already have their favourite franchises to please them (along with dozens of imitations to choose from). It's more sensate to keep doing what they are good at (and that no one else seems to do right) and to leave the IPs creations to second-party studios, than to abandon their old IPs and to join the ranks of those trying to get their slice of the crowded colorless M-rated market.

 

[chozo_hybrid]

Did you try ZombiU?

He's talking about Nintendo, and that's not a Nintendo game. It's Ubisoft, so I'm not sure it relates to what LightKnight was talking about. It definitely was not a heavy hitter.

Oops! I blew it completely, didn't I? Still, there is no reason to not recommend ZombiU

All good, just thought I should point that out. I did have fun with the game though.

 

[Nixou]

Except anyone who thinks for five seconds finds the fallacy in that right away. They are the ONLY company in the entire industry who saw the writing on the wall and decided that they needed to not just broaden THEIR audience (which, when you get down to it, other companies just try to steal audience members away from other companies) but the gaming audience as a whole

More importantly, they saw the other writing and got the fuck out of the hardware arms race before it bankrupted them.

One thing which always riles me up about this company is that they're far from blameless, but their real blunders (not taking enough hireling to program their games and OS -resulting in constant delays and a vanilla WiiU OS which made Vista look fast and reliable- or to build and maintain a reliable online infrastructure, for instance, or overpricing their consoles and waiting way too long before diminishing their price) end up completely overshadowed by the frothing rage of the AAA demographics who never forgave Nintendo's crime of not pandering enough to them.

***

of course it's going to take them floundering financially to realize that.

Problem is, the other companies know that their ecosystem is not viable in the long run: it's just that each one is convinced that they will be among the lucky survivors who will outlast the consequences of the AAA bubble bursting only to rise to profitability once again once their competitor will have been forced out of the market.

 

[Harry Mason]

Yo Miyamoto. Tim Schafer has more unique creative output in single summer than you have had in your entire career. If he had the enormous resources you have, I guaran-freakin-tee you he wouldn't have Raz playing tennis against Sonic the Hedgehog.

So nyeh.

Are you honestly saying Tim Schafer is more creative than Miyamoto? You think the guy who made Brutal Legend is more innovative than the guy who invented the jump button?
Jesus, that's not even a case of opinion, that's just flat-out unreasonable. I got nothing against Tim Schafer but seriously, dude, look into what he did for the industry before saying such things, you know not of what you speak.

I am, and I do.

Saying Miyamoto is the most creative videogame developer in the industry is like saying the caveman who carved the first wheel is the best automotive manufacturer. Schafer has only been making games since the 1980's, but he is constantly moving forward and trying something new with everything he does. Even if it turns out poorly (Read: Combat in Full Throttle). He bangs out a dozen entirely new game mechanics every year. Some of them are amazing, some of them aren't, but he is still creating.

Schafer has been pushing the envelope, hard, with his games, his writing, and the way he runs his businesses, for 25 years. Miyamoto made a handful of successful IPs and rode the success of a videogame industry giant the rest of the way.

Are you seriously going to try to convince me the man who made "Wii Sports Resort" has a single ounce of relevance left? He is wealthy and well known. That's it at this point.

I kinda of am, yeah.
I feel like you're giving Tim Schafer a lot more leeway on this than you're giving Miyamoto; what you say is pushing the envelope usually boils down to being inventive with existing ideas. Psychonauts, which is a f*cking amazing game, draws from a lot of sources. Crash Bandicoot's style of platforming, Spyro's style of character design, just fused with his own skill for comic writing. This is nothing against the game, but it has influences. Schafer does his own thing with it but, at best, it's Crash Bandicoot as written by Tim Schafer. Which was awesome but isn't on the same level as Miyamoto.
Around the same time, Miyamoto came out with Pikmin and I will defend that original outings inventiveness to the death. It takes on RTS elements in the vaguest possible sense, structured itself around avoiding combat and was inspired by when he spent some time gardening. Comparison, Schafer came up with Full Throttle after he spent some time in a biker bar and realised how weird they sound to outsiders.
Again, I don't want to slam Tim Schafer because then this stops being a debate and starts being a "My dad can beat up your dad" contest.

But if we're talking innovations that affected the industry, Miyamoto was heavily involved in the Wii and HOW MANY consoles now have motion sensing of some form installed?
Schafer's contributions to gaming are heavy, he pretty much came up with solid comic writing integrated into storytelling in gaming.
But Miyamoto came up with gameplay, man. And he still IS, you can't just ignore all that, it's still ongoing.

Sorry dude, but I think that argument is pretty weak. All games, all things for that matter, draw from previous material. You even admit as much with the RTS elements of Pikman (Zelda is just D&D, Metroid is just Alien, etc etc.) The pieces of the past you use don't matter as much as what you build with them. Crash Bandicoot had 3D platforming through narrow pathways. It did not have a level where you turn into a giant and wreck a city full of fish men. It did not have an entire level that mimics a board game. It did not have a psychic bear.

Schafer's ambition and ideas have always outpaced his resources and his talent. Miyamoto has infinite resources and talent, and does almost nothing with them. I just don't think there is a fair comparison to be made between the man who created Amnesia Fortnight and is teaming up with the creator of Adventure Time to create an IOS game about a fat guy climbing a human pyramid, and a man who has not created a new IP (barring WiiSports) in THIRTEEN YEARS.

I live in a family of artists, and I can tell you this much... Talent is not the same as creativity. Success is not the same as creativity. Creativity is a constant, irrepressible flow of new ideas. Creativity can't sit still long enough to make 115 sequels (Did you know there are around 115 Mario Games?)

Also, motion controls are almost as old as gaming itself. Improving them and making them commercially viable takes talent. It was a smart thing to do. But calling it creative? C'mon, man.