Because it's the story we always told. Simple as that. It's been that way for nearly all of human history. Men were the strong ones that protect the women. So the stories people told to each other were of men really spectacular protecting a woman. Besides every one has someone they love, so everyone can relate to the scenario of having to rescue their loved one. It's simply the default story.Zhukov said:
Should Feminism and Gaming Mix?
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actually, it's a H2G2 reference. thanks for the compliment, sweet cheeks.carnex said:
you should check out some content on this website about this very subject, Jim Sterling comes to mind. there's some pretty interesting things being said, it might enlighten you and/or entertain you.
Quite some time ago.FargoDog said:
Right around the same time that every 3rd thread was about homosexuality, which, coincidentally, was when I stopped even BROWSING the forums with any regularity. The forums have become such vapid wastelands of sexual preferences/identities and men v women that I can't be bothered to browse for more than 5 minutes anymore.
A shame, really.
It's not like I?m talking out of my ass. i do know what I'm talking about. But I do like to take a look around myself and form my own opinion rather than repeating something someone else said and concluded. Now you might feel different about it then I do, but I can't do anything about that. Feelings are deeply personal and often have no connection to reality. My feelings on many things actual go against my opinions. I recognize them as unreasonable and sidestep them.Maitresse Zem said:
P.S.
I do belive what I wrote about owning your own sexuality. I'm not pulling that out of my behind either.
Edited:
It really pay's off to read what you have written before posting. What I wrote before edit made no sense what so ever...
That hurt to read. In addition to being a gross oversimplification, it's only true if you have a very selective view of cultural stories.Amaror said:
Here.
http://www.sacred-texts.com/cla/bulf/
Enrich your life. You'll find what you described there, but so very much more.
But you specifically named Dragon's Crown, so I went with that. It's an unabashedly "sexy" game aimed at adolescent fantasy.Hazy992 said:
On the Batman note, I found it both annoying and HILARIOUS in that scene in Batman where Catwoman was tied up and upside down how she managed to not slip out of that outfit.
I'm confused as to why you were trying to play as Crazy Steve, though. He's nothing but trouble.
But as a whole, yes, there's a problem. You brought DC up in a vacuum, though, and I don't have a problem with it in itself. Except I find the artwork ugly and grotesque. I like boobs, but those are something Lovecraft would write about.
I do still think it comes down to the response of the fanbase, though. It's like the gun control issue: few people actually want to eliminate guns in the US, yet anyone who even suggest that just maybe the 9-11 hijackers shouldn't have had the right to buy firearms is a nazi trying to take away our guns.
The minute that DC got a bad review, suddenly it was right back to the PC feminazi censorship claims. Women want to take their games away, just like Saddam Hussein did!
and the best part is that they asked why feminists had to make such a big deal about it.
Except we didn't. One reviewer said something less than flattering and they exploded. Who made a big deal about it?
Oh. Well...Huh. Fair enough, I guess. I guess I'm just not scared of feminists being on here taking on dudes who insist there's no problem. It looks like a pisstake to me, but I guess maybe to someone who's complaining about how women dare want representation in games, it might be flippin' terrifying.Maitresse Zem said:
In any case, preach on.
Become? Doesn't that imply it once wasn't?FargoDog said:
This may have grown in presence in the time since the TVW Kickstarter, but it's been here as long as I've been here. Hell, it's been here as long as I was even browsing the site without a username or account.
Yeah, but gamers complain about that, too.
But just think about all the ways women in gaming impacts you!
...And when you find one, let me know.
ZOMG! Sarkeesian had been blocking comments on her videos long before that! OMG! The Kickstarter had been going on for two weeks before her video and had only reached 1/3 of its goal! HOLY CRAP! She actual apologized for the trolling that was going to happen in the comments of her video before they were even posted! GOLLY GEE WILIKERS! She kept the comments open only until the Kickstarter ended!Hazy992 said:
Nothing suspicious here.
Sarkeesian doesn't need to give proof for how it's, " dangerously irresponsible to be creating games in which players are encouraged and even required to perform violence against women in order to ?save them?." without everyone nodding their heads and going, "Yes... that is quite true, well said." Why should this person?SonicWaffle said:
And I'll leave that as the last I talk about Sarkeesian as I'm sick to death of talking about her as much as I am about sexism in gaming.
My real problem with feminism in gaming is how much it seems to have become like carpet bombing, hit anything and everything and don't care about the collateral damage. It doesn't seem focused on creating things but instead removing them.
Should Questions with ridiculously obvious answers and internet forums mix?
A game could be about ANYTHING!!!!!!!
It usually isn't. It's usually about
The driving force of video games usually has to be something that makes you kill a bunch of things, and that severely limits the amount of things a game can be about.
But it can be about anything.
A game could be about ANYTHING!!!!!!!
It usually isn't. It's usually about
The driving force of video games usually has to be something that makes you kill a bunch of things, and that severely limits the amount of things a game can be about.
But it can be about anything.
No. I dont like feminism. I prefer general equality, instead of limiting to one group. Though I am gay and focus on LGBT rights, I would rather be a human rights person than a gay rights person. Also I think alot of feminism that attacks gaming is misguided. Gaming is targeted at straight men. So alot of what happens makes sense. But even non straight men people enjoy gaming (like me), since its more than just DOA. Plus what about things aimed at straight women? Just because they dont care so much about blunt sexualification, the same thing happens in a different light. Maybe the next romantic "chick flick" should be made more equal by adding a few explosions? I could go into a lengthier explanation, but it would be too long.
These ones are used to attract men, though, so that's a pointless statement.Father Time said:
The problem with simple answers is that they're almost always wrong due to their simplicity. I see Norithics has already covered this, but suffice to say, it's "a" story we "often" told, not "the" story we "always" told.Amaror said:
So now the news room is misogynist? The show that puts it's female characters on a pedestal and makes most of them emotionally invincible?RickyChinese said:
Yeah you people are really getting silly with this.
Not all women or girls are strong. There are many vulnerable women in the real world, portraying such a woman in a fictional story is not misogynist.
I mean does that mean we can talk about how misandrist daytime network tv is?
I'm also going to repost something I said in another thread.
"You know what sucks about the whole fiasco with Dragon's Crown? That Vanillaware is the one that got crap for all of this. The company that's ENTIRE game record is games that have female leads or allow you to play as a female character. Grim Grimoire, Muramasa, and Odin's Sphere are three games I own in my collection and I really enjoyed them. Grim Grimoire stars a female protagonist, Muramasa stars two characters, one of whom is a woman. Odin's Sphere has THREE female protagonists out of five. And those are the ones that I have. There's also Princess Crown which was never released in America and it's main protagonist is a woman. The PSP game Grand Knights History allows you to be male or female. And another Japanese only title, Kumantanchi, as much as it's a life-simulation game, the game is in fact centered around a female character. And of course we have Dragon's Crown which also has three female playable characters in it.
Where the hell were the people making such an outcry over this when a game like Odin's Sphere came out? Where was the soaring praise for that game? It's stuff like this that unfortunately really lends some merit to the kinds of reactions gamers have to these things. People take one brief look at something and go into full outrage mode without looking into anything or learning more about what's going on."
All these people beating the drums of feminism lately seem to only be interested in it when it comes to complaining about something. It is not an inherently bad thing to complain about something when you don't like it but when that's all you seem to be willing to do I take issue. Where are these people when games with GOOD female characters come out? Why aren't they ever putting their money where their mouth is to promote the good games? Why aren't these people making lists of games that have good female protagonists and encouraging people to go out and find them? It makes me want to make some sort of term for this like 'Ill weather complainers' or something.
"You know what sucks about the whole fiasco with Dragon's Crown? That Vanillaware is the one that got crap for all of this. The company that's ENTIRE game record is games that have female leads or allow you to play as a female character. Grim Grimoire, Muramasa, and Odin's Sphere are three games I own in my collection and I really enjoyed them. Grim Grimoire stars a female protagonist, Muramasa stars two characters, one of whom is a woman. Odin's Sphere has THREE female protagonists out of five. And those are the ones that I have. There's also Princess Crown which was never released in America and it's main protagonist is a woman. The PSP game Grand Knights History allows you to be male or female. And another Japanese only title, Kumantanchi, as much as it's a life-simulation game, the game is in fact centered around a female character. And of course we have Dragon's Crown which also has three female playable characters in it.
Where the hell were the people making such an outcry over this when a game like Odin's Sphere came out? Where was the soaring praise for that game? It's stuff like this that unfortunately really lends some merit to the kinds of reactions gamers have to these things. People take one brief look at something and go into full outrage mode without looking into anything or learning more about what's going on."
All these people beating the drums of feminism lately seem to only be interested in it when it comes to complaining about something. It is not an inherently bad thing to complain about something when you don't like it but when that's all you seem to be willing to do I take issue. Where are these people when games with GOOD female characters come out? Why aren't they ever putting their money where their mouth is to promote the good games? Why aren't these people making lists of games that have good female protagonists and encouraging people to go out and find them? It makes me want to make some sort of term for this like 'Ill weather complainers' or something.
Last 5 years, hit me with the volume. I do believe Anita oversold it to you.Thoralata said:
@Specter Von Baren
It's a known thing. That's why on sites with product review from customers, with equal number of positive and negative reviews, you know most of buyers were satisfied. If customer is satisfied there is no urge to go and praise the product unless it overshot our expectations by far. But if it failed it's off to customer support immediately.
Oh dear. So, a woman said something unsavory, because there was a cause she could latch onto and suck dry, like a mosquito that feeds on excuses (really, I think people do this to make up for their lack of skill)? So, if someone calls you (well, I guess, not the OP, since the event he described didn't even happen to him) gay as an attempt to insult you, would this topic be "Should Homosexuality and Gaming Mix?"? Because something exists and has been used as a way to demean someone else should have no bearing on its relation to anything.
OT: Um, huh? Should any social or political movement and gaming mix (I mean, content-wise we'd lose a lot of great stories, but if it's really that bad...)? Why specifically feminism? This strikes me as more of a question as to whether or not women should have any opinions in relation to gaming, which is actually impossible to prevent (people will form opinions on something unless they do not know it exists). So, in reality, it would be: Should women be able to express their opinions on things? Should men be able to express opinions about women that differ from an established norm? To which, I must ask: Should anyone be allowed to express any opinion that differs from an established norm?
...
I feel like this is an issue of "what is the correct way to live life?". For years, people dismissed gaming as a hobby for small children, despite the fact that gaming has never been solely a child's activity. Heck, I still have to watch what I say around some people, because they'll still laugh at me and say things like, "Really? You still play games?" My parents even just barely tolerate it, but don't miss any opportunity to keep me well informed of every other "more worthy" activity I could be pursuing. And I don't even live at home anymore.
Gamers have a history of being told how silly they were, and gamers have mostly been male. So, I understand why, when some females want to advocate for more games they can relate to, it sounds like someone just telling male gamers how their current forms of enjoyment are incorrect (and thus they are living their lives incorrectly... again...).
All I would say is look past the knee-jerk reaction. Those who are advocating for more interesting female characters want what every gamer wants: better games. They're simply asking for more variety in stories and art design, not for the existing stories to be re-written. No one wants to tell you the things you enjoy are wrong. They just want more things they enjoy, too. And maybe, if you gave those things a chance, you might find you enjoy them as well. Or not.
OT: Um, huh? Should any social or political movement and gaming mix (I mean, content-wise we'd lose a lot of great stories, but if it's really that bad...)? Why specifically feminism? This strikes me as more of a question as to whether or not women should have any opinions in relation to gaming, which is actually impossible to prevent (people will form opinions on something unless they do not know it exists). So, in reality, it would be: Should women be able to express their opinions on things? Should men be able to express opinions about women that differ from an established norm? To which, I must ask: Should anyone be allowed to express any opinion that differs from an established norm?
...
I feel like this is an issue of "what is the correct way to live life?". For years, people dismissed gaming as a hobby for small children, despite the fact that gaming has never been solely a child's activity. Heck, I still have to watch what I say around some people, because they'll still laugh at me and say things like, "Really? You still play games?" My parents even just barely tolerate it, but don't miss any opportunity to keep me well informed of every other "more worthy" activity I could be pursuing. And I don't even live at home anymore.
Gamers have a history of being told how silly they were, and gamers have mostly been male. So, I understand why, when some females want to advocate for more games they can relate to, it sounds like someone just telling male gamers how their current forms of enjoyment are incorrect (and thus they are living their lives incorrectly... again...).
All I would say is look past the knee-jerk reaction. Those who are advocating for more interesting female characters want what every gamer wants: better games. They're simply asking for more variety in stories and art design, not for the existing stories to be re-written. No one wants to tell you the things you enjoy are wrong. They just want more things they enjoy, too. And maybe, if you gave those things a chance, you might find you enjoy them as well. Or not.
Of course, feminism is a term FOR general equality. Congratulations! You're a feminist. And apparently also a gay rights person, even if you also support other causes.Saelune said:
Also, you're either missing the point of or intentionally misrepresenting feminist "attacks" on gaming.
The equivalent you gave for films doesn't work. "Chick flicks" actually exist and are a large part of the market, but they are not done to the exclusion of the male market. Equality does not mean homogeny, and people aren't asking that every dudebro shooter stop the action to discuss their feelings in the name of equality.
It seems you're against something that doesn't really exist. Unless you're Rush Limbaugh or Glenn Beck and therefore get paid to make this stuff up and stir the base, that's not a good thing.
Since you are gay, look at it this way: how do you feel about all those people claiming that gay rights will force homosexuality on them and devalue their relationships?
It sounds dumb, doesn't it?
But it's roughly the equivalent argument (not in scope) of the complaints about women in gaming. Gay marriage doesn't impact straight marriage and gays existing in no way hurts heterosexuality.
But it doesn't stop anyone from ranting about those radical homosexual advocates who are trying to ruin marriage and recruit straight people to that depraved "lifestyle," does it? Or the Pat Robertsons of the world from accusing gays of using special rings to infect people with HIV. Yes, this is a real claim [http://www.huffingtonpost.com/2013/08/27/pat-robertson-aids-rings_n_3824401.html].
Do unto others, friend. Unless you think slurring gays by making up fake agendas for them is okay, don't do it to feminists.