Should Illegal Immigrants have the same rights as U.S. citizens?

[SeriousSquirrel]

Frankly, your not here legally so I feel that as an illegal immigrant your limited to only a very bare set of rights.

 

[Warforger]

I'd like to hear what people here on the Escapist think about this issue.

Personally, I don't think they should. If you aren't going to make the effort to register yourself as a U.S. citizen, than you shouldn't even be in America. It isn't fair to actual U.S. citizens who were either born in America, or are immigrants who followed the rules and procedures to become U.S. citizens.

For those who support rights for illegals, I want to you to give logical reasons to why they should have the same rights. Because at the moment, I don't see why they should.

The immigration process is terrible, none of the illegal immigrants from Mexico who come from poor places won't be accepted unless they have a college degree or have family in the US which is why they go in illegally. This is because the number of Visa's is limited and most agricultural companies aren't able to pay for the worker's visa's even then those are temporary.

The legal immigrants are the ones who take our jobs because they have college degree's and work hard, illegal immigrants just take jobs no American will do, so if anything legal ones do more damage to the economy then illegal ones. The only problem I see is crime, if an illegal immigrant kills someone but are found the next day there becomes a huge fuss, he can also have committed crimes in Mexico as well so Mexico may want him as well which is bad.

 

[Blood Countess]

they deserve basic human rights of course but certain rights one would get for being a legal citizen of america be it born there or gain citizenship then no since being there illegally is a crime in the end

 

[RUINER ACTUAL]

No.

I pay my motherfucking taxes- THEY DON'T.

Of course not, they are breaking a law.

Hey meow, you can't be all logical like that. It makes people angry because they have no counter argument to it.

 

[du3466]

Why would they want to become citizens? They get more free benefits and rights without being citizens. We that are citizens have to pay for this, and they laugh in our face. Now they can go to our colleges and they don't get recorded on this??? Makes no freaking sense to me!!!
I put it this way: If you don't want to be a citizen, go back where you came from. The politicians need to quit giving the illegals every free benefit. They need to take care of the people that are here as U.S. citizens, but I guess that's too much to ask. If they were all deported, then there would be plenty of jobs for the citizens that are actually here, and then the economy would be in the right track (COMMON SENSE!!).

 

[iblis666]

"All persons born or naturalized in the United States, and subject to the jurisdiction thereof, are citizens of the United States and of the State wherein they reside. No State shall make or enforce any law which shall abridge the privileges or immunities of citizens of the United States; nor shall any State deprive any person of life, liberty, or property, without due process of law; nor deny to any person within its jurisdiction the equal protection of the laws." -14th Amendment, Section 1

This amendment, one of the three Reconstruction Amendments ratified after the Civil War, clearly defines what it means to be a legal citizen of the United States: someone who is born or naturalized. However, take a look at the bold. That right there is my argument for not only illegal immigrants but anyone within the borders or a territory of the United States. You shouldn't have to be an American citizen to obtain basic rights.

That said, illegal immigrants are still breaking the law.

The problem is that they are using it as a loophole. This should be changed, revised, ratified, etc...whatever can be done to eliminate this problem. Historically it was created for the sake of allowing the children of slaves to be accepted as citizens right off the boat, but doing it outside of the normal consideration and mentality of a US citizen, whose parents are from here legally, should be taken into a higher consideration.

It's all a matter of interpretation really, especially when it involves the United States Constitution.

under equal protection it would only mean that the law should deport them as they are breaking it

 

[du3466]

Yes we were founded with immigrants, but the immigrants that came here became citizens. My ancestors came here and did it the right way to become U.S. citizens to have a better life and they did. What's so hard about wanting to be a citizen to a country that you ran away to? There is a reason why they are coming here, so make it legal!!

 

[iblis666]

I LOOOOOVE how illegal immigration in the United States discussions are always just a slightly vague form of racism. We know that you aren't talking about "illegal immigrants". You're talking about Mexicans, because they're really the largest illegal immigrant demographic. Nobody would give a fuck if someone popped on down from Canada and decided never to go home, just like nobody would ever care if someone from Eastern Asia or fucking Belgium decided to just never go home.

Say what you mean.

i dont care what race they are i want them out since they are mucking up the system

 

[Calbeck]

If I sneak into France, should I have the same rights as a French citizen?

Non, m'sieur.

 

[AcacianLeaves]

Don't we have a religion and politics forum? What's with all these new posts in off-topic about political issues - especially AFTER the elections?

On Topic: Well, no they are breaking the law. That doesn't mean its right, especially considering how broken our immigration system is and the horrible state that Mexico is in at the moment. We should be welcoming them with open arms as refugees fleeing from a warzone, not turning them away. What kind of an example are we setting? Don't we have a statue with a pretty famous phrase engraved on it?

Give me your tired, your poor,
Your huddled masses yearning to breathe free,
The wretched refuse of your teeming shore.
Send these, the homeless, tempest-tost to me,
I lift my lamp beside the golden door!

I also love the "yeah well my grandfather immigrated legally!" argument. Yeah, your grandfather got off the boat, stood in line, filled out a single form, and was granted citizenship. It's a slightly more complicated process now.

 

[RUINER ACTUAL]

I'd like to hear what people here on the Escapist think about this issue.

Personally, I don't think they should. If you aren't going to make the effort to register yourself as a U.S. citizen, than you shouldn't even be in America. It isn't fair to actual U.S. citizens who were either born in America, or are immigrants who followed the rules and procedures to become U.S. citizens.

For those who support rights for illegals, I want to you to give logical reasons to why they should have the same rights. Because at the moment, I don't see why they should.

The immigration process is terrible, none of the illegal immigrants from Mexico who come from poor places won't be accepted unless they have a college degree or have family in the US which is why they go in illegally. This is because the number of Visa's is limited and most agricultural companies aren't able to pay for the worker's visa's even then those are temporary.

The legal immigrants are the ones who take our jobs because they have college degree's and work hard, illegal immigrants just take jobs no American will do, so if anything legal ones do more damage to the economy then illegal ones. The only problem I see is crime, if an illegal immigrant kills someone but are found the next day there becomes a huge fuss, he can also have committed crimes in Mexico as well so Mexico may want him as well which is bad.

Paragraph One - So, because our system is flawed, probably on purpose, it's okay to break the law?

Paragraph Two - How dare you say they do jobs no American will do. What jobs are those and why won't American citizens do them?

 

[iblis666]

It's a very complicated issue. While the process of becoming a citizen is extremely complicated and in some cases almost impossible I think that it's almost more of a pragmatic decision on the part of the U.S. government than anything else. The developed world's wealth relies on the poverty of the developing world. I'm not a Marxist, but even I realize that my quality of life in the U.S. would be much lower were everyone in the world to have a fair shot. Also the limited amount of legal immigration and naturalization allows for only the best and the brightest of the developing world to immigrate. This further perpetuates the poverty of the poor by removing their fellow countrymen who could actually contribute to the growth of their own economy.

Illegal immigrants, specifically from south of the U.S. border, fill a very important role in the U.S. economy. Despite what many may think of them as just simply plundering the economy, and running home to Mexico. They often do the jobs that U.S. citizens see themselves as too good for such as construction, busing tables in restaurants and washing dishes, mass agriculture, and many other things. But I would also like to point out that while this system is corrupt in many ways it also has advantages for many illegal immigrants. In a restaurant a dishwasher could become a chef, or a construction worker could become a foreman. These realities exist, and I've seen them time and time again usually because the possible chef has proven to be a skilled and reliable worker that would work for less. However, as you can imagine this has a negative impact on many skilled workers in the U.S. chefs in chain restaurants like Chile's make nothing in the southwest, because an illegal immigrant who is maybe in the process of naturalizing or has just been around a while will work for less and communicate more efficiently with the kitchen staff who mostly speak only Spanish.

Although many point to smuggling and the drug cartels as a major part of illegal immigration from what I've seen I tend to disagree. I also believe that if legal immigration were expanded upon that the cartels would be easier to pick out. If someone noticed someone trying to smuggle across the border it would probably be more likely to be a smuggler rather than just another illegal immigrant. Also the extensive border is really almost impossible to completely wall off and restrict immigration. For those of you who are Canadians can you imagine the logistic that would be involved if nearly every American citizen who wasn't eligible for Canadian citizenship wanted to sneak across the border to Canada? There's not enough people in Canada to stop them! To be fair the border with Canada and the U.S. is a bit larger than the U.S. Mexico border, but not by too terribly much.

In other words, I believe that were the U.S. to make the correct moral choice they would expand legal immigration tenfold. However, if the U.S. were to make the pragmatic choice that would benefit its citzens the most, then I would do pretty much nothing and just pretend to do stuff when the public was riled up about it. As far as those American born chefs and construction foremen who have lost their jobs to cheaper labor? Well, I suppose they can always join the army. *wink, wink, nudge, nudge*

not exactly what they do are jobs that pay below the poverty line and they pay below the poverty line because the illegals dont live in this country they are just visiting and funneling cash that should circulate through the system out of it. If the pay was at the lvl it should be us citizens would be happy to do it hell some citizens would even do the jobs of illegals at the pay they get but its filled all ready by an illegal.

 

[iblis666]

Don't we have a religion and politics forum? What's with all these new posts in off-topic about political issues - especially AFTER the elections?

On Topic: Well, no they are breaking the law. That doesn't mean its right, especially considering how broken our immigration system is and the horrible state that Mexico is in at the moment. We should be welcoming them with open arms as refugees fleeing from a warzone, not turning them away. What kind of an example are we setting? Don't we have a statue with a pretty famous phrase engraved on it?

Give me your tired, your poor,
Your huddled masses yearning to breathe free,
The wretched refuse of your teeming shore.
Send these, the homeless, tempest-tost to me,
I lift my lamp beside the golden door!

I also love the "yeah well my grandfather immigrated legally!" argument. Yeah, your grandfather got off the boat, stood in line, filled out a single form, and was granted citizenship. It's a slightly more complicated process now.

yes we have a statue that says that and believe me if that french ***** that wrote that shit were still alive id have killed her by now

 

[Twilight_guy]

No. Citizens of a country hold special status. Its what differentiates them from other people in the world in terms of how government deals with them. Undocumented immigrants should not have these rights because they are not legal citizens.

 

[Choppaduel]

while they do not, and should not, share the rights defined by the constitution, they do share human rights, which have been defined by some people? like the UN? Geneva Convention? idk; its written down somewhere.

 

[yamitami]

No. Part of getting the benefits of a country (or any group) is following the rules. If you want to wear the Beta Club t-shirt you have to pay the dues and go to the meetings. If you want the benefits of citizenship then you have to fill out the forms and go through all the processes. It's that simple.

 

[Sniper Team 4]

Depends on the rights. Basic human rights that everyone should get, yes. Rights that come with being a U.S. citizen a-la Constitution, no.

 

[KarumaK]

Nope we have ways to become legal citizens here, get with it or get out.

Of course in the event they become legal citizens they're still illegal immigrants so... yeah.

 

[thenumberthirteen]

They should be allowed their inalienable rights, but not the right to vote or to claim from the government. The Immigration process should be streamlined and sped up as it can take years and years to become a Citizen. It's not as simple as "They can't be bothered to do the paperwork" unless you are rich, or have a fantastic job offer (who are willing to pay thousands to get you a green card), or are the spouse or child of a citizen then you're screwed.

 

[kfwanderer]

I AM a Native American... well... mostly, anyway. Enough to qualify legally as one. I live in Texas, where there are probably more illegal immigrants from Mexico than all the other states combined (except possibly California).

I'll say this. I have more friends who are immigrants or are the children of immigrants than I do friends whose families have been here for three generations or more. And ALL of them are legal. No, it wasn't quick. No, it wasn't easy. But they (or their parents) at some point earned the right to be here.

There's several problems with illegal Mexican immigrants. The first is the most obvious. They're breaking the law just by being here. But that's actually not my big issue. My biggest issue is the fact the ones I've met demand housing, medical care, and government funding for college, but they're not giving a damn thing back to the country they're demanding so much from. They don't pay taxes. They're sending their money back to families who live in Mexico. And their eventual plans usually include saving enough money, getting enough education, and aquiring enough possessions to move back to Mexico and live an easier life.

Bluntly put, they've broken in, they're stealing, and they're planning to exit with all they can carry. And they have no intention of paying anything back. A lot of them won't even bother to learn the language.

And why do they do this? Because they can. Because they know that the U.S. is too cowardly to do anything that might "offend" anyone. And because they know that despite any big talk from any politician promising a tighter grip on the situation, America is too cheap and too lazy to do away with its cheap labor.

Cheap. Lazy. Cowardly. Those are our labels. That's how the rest of the world views the United States, and I can't say I blame them. That's exactly how our government acts. No other country in the world puts up with disrespect like ours does. No other country in the world spends so much to keep from doing anything too hard.

The tough fighters who started this country... who took it from my ancestors in the 1500's, fought off the massive armies of the British in the 1700's, conquered huge amounts of Mexican land in the 1800's and fought off the nearly unstoppable force of the Germans in the early 1900's? They're gone. The pioneers of the industrial age who led the world's top thinkers? They're gone. And the government leaders who stuck to their principles and truly wanted to leave the country in better shape than they found it? They're gone, too.

All we have now is a government that no longer is run by the citizens, but by corporations. And while citizens might have a problem with illegal immigrants quietly invading everything, the corporations like it just fine. Because it's cheaper labor for them, and more consumers to buy their crap.

Sorry to rant like this... but it really burns me. I'm part of a bloodline that was truly a part of this country once, and this is what it's become. We're the joke of the world, and our government couldn't care less. The people in charge are getting paid, and that's the only goal they've got now.