I think everyone is forgetting the true purpose of Xmas. Going out and getting smashed with your work colleagues- paid for by your company! Xmas = FREE BAR!
since when is christmass a religions event?
- Thread starter Vault101
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Christmas is a Christian holiday hence the christ-mas. However the date was picked as the same day as the pagan winter festival as there was about to be a massive conversion to Christianity and It would help ease the transition. However the act of giving gifts is to remember the acts of Saint Nicholas. Whom Santa Claus is based on which means giving presents cannot be a commercial act as it is based on the acts of a Christian saint.
Christmas was originally a religious holiday, in every possible definition of the term. The timing was taken from the old pagan/druidic rituals and feasts celebrating the Winter Solstice and the dawning of the new year. The Roman emperors, upon converting to Christianity, basically took the existing festivals and celebrations of their subjects and slapped a new coat of paint on them, to make the new religion more palatable. Thus, the "Winter Solstice" feast became the "Jesus was born" feast.Vault101 said:
Nowadays, it's become a commercial holiday. For better or worse, the tradition of gift-giving means people will buy said gifts, and the producers of such gifts took the opportunity. It's almost completely non-secular now. There are religious overtones to it, but you have to actively seek them out (for the most part, it does vary depending on where you are).
Because pagans don't have a very vocal, annoying, conservative section that messes with things, least not one that is shown in the mass media.Twilight_guy said:
OT: Most religions have a celebration around christmas time so historically and religious christmas can be considered a religious day or not depending on the individual. It's been a religious thing far longer then a commercial thing but that's changed now. It has religious origins but that doesn't make it the only context of christmas.
Yeah, this, pretty much. The reason that it doesn't occur on the date of Jesus' actual birthday (Somewhere in June/August) is that it was set up to coincide with the Roman festival of Saturnalia, to allow a smooth transition from one religion to another when Rome went Christian.l3o2828 said:
I'm of the point of of view of: No it's not, it's a stolen pagan holiday celebrating the winter solstice.
I don't know whether or not that's completely true but I think it makes sense.
I "celebrate" christmas as a secular holiday of "OH SHIT GOTTA BUY STUFF", so I don't think of it very highly, but I do like the message of peace and good cheer.
Everyone celebrates it here. I only know of one muslim friend in Canada who's family never cared, but she's basically just against the buying presents part. Not exactly sure on her whole family's stance.
I don't know whether or not that's completely true but I think it makes sense.
I "celebrate" christmas as a secular holiday of "OH SHIT GOTTA BUY STUFF", so I don't think of it very highly, but I do like the message of peace and good cheer.
Everyone celebrates it here. I only know of one muslim friend in Canada who's family never cared, but she's basically just against the buying presents part. Not exactly sure on her whole family's stance.
I'm not religious at all, but I celebrate the holiday and so does pretty much everyone I know. Most of them are not religious either, it's probably just more of a commercial thing.
I'm an atheist but i celebrate x-mas. I live in America though so i better celebrate x-mas or people might realize i'm an atheist and try to burn me at the stake.
You don't celebrate Christmas in Russia. You Celebrate the New Year. Because Christmas is supposed to be a religious event. Say thanks to globalisation and media for it becoming a random celebration to waste money on. (also, don't generalise, orthodox christians celebrate christmas on 7th of Jan, wile catholics and protestants go with 25th of dec)
To those saying that's what christians stole from pagans.... you do realise that apart from really minor details and names, all religions are the same? (and don't give me the belief in one god argument, cause then you forget the army of saint patrons of everything.)
To those saying that's what christians stole from pagans.... you do realise that apart from really minor details and names, all religions are the same? (and don't give me the belief in one god argument, cause then you forget the army of saint patrons of everything.)
The name doesn't matter much when it comes to it. It's named Christmas is one language and something else in other languages.ChupathingyX said:
Over here it's called jul so it only got one letter in common with the fairytale character you relate to the name. It is in fact closer to the word hjul which means wheel. Is this because we celebrate the wheel since the names are similar? Giving presents was added to the Christian version because if you want to make someone believe in your religion you can't take away their traditions and replace them with some crappier ones. You have to take their traditions and improve them. Before Christianity came we used to celebrate the 22nd of December because it's a turning point. After this point our days grow longer and that has been celebrated with presents for a lot longer time than there's even been a Christianity. It seems you blindly believe that Christmas is about Christianity like so many others.
OT: Most Christians got firm beliefs that Christmas is their tradition and that Jesus was born on Christmas day, over here where we celebrate on the 24th they believe he was born on Christmas Eve. Christmas is a nice holiday and I think most Christians really believe that it is a Christian thing exclusively.
You're speaking from a none religious stand point right?Vault101 said:
Hence why you assume it to be a none religious holiday and actually thought that it wasn't to do with the birth of the baby J.C.
Commercialism has completely obliterated religious holidays, lets be honest here. Whilst Christmas now to most people about the giving of gifts, it is in fact a celebration of the birth of Jesus.
Christians are now trying to take back what is rightfully theirs, you're not a Christian so you shouldn't be celebrating Christmas, just like you're not celebrating Divahli or other different holidays belonging to other religions. They're no more in the wrong than anyone else.
*Sigh*Yopaz said:
Another person who took my post way too seriously and blew it out of proportion and also made me out to be a respresentative of all Christianity and that I am a bad and ignorant person for doing so.
If you read some of my other posts you'll see that I was talking specifically about Christmas in America (just like the OP intended) and that to be honest I don't even care about it as I'm not even a very religous guy.
There are claims that Christmas stole the date of the Winter Solstice I think, a pagan festival, and given the Catholic Churchs' history, this is very possible.Vault101 said:
However, the traditions during Christmas can be traced to Jesus' birth. Gift giving originated from the three wise men giving gifts of gold, frankensence and myrrh. Originally, anyway. Seems now it's a marketing event.
Regardless of whether you remember the significance behind it, that is, a celebration that God entered this world a human, it is still nice to have a day dedicated to forgiveness and generosity.
Like most xtian holidays, christmas is smackdack right at the same spot as old pagan holiday of midwinter.
ChupathingyX said:
Now tell me where does he mention America? The only country he mentions here is Australia. This thread was not about Christmas in America and even if it was it wouldn't have a different origin than what we see in Europe unless you're going to tell me that Americans believe Jesus was born in Ohio.
There it isYopaz said:
However, I still don't understand why you're so angry at me.
The OP was curious if Christmas had something to do with religion, I explained what it had to do with religion and how the name also connects it to religion.
No, the OP knew a lot more about than you. He didn't wonder if Christmas was a Christian belief. He was wondering why Christians seems to believe that it is.ChupathingyX said:There it isYopaz said:
However, I still don't understand why you're so angry at me.
The OP was curious if Christmas had something to do with religion, I explained what it had to do with religion and how the name also connects it to religion.