Six Hearthstone Cards That Need a Good Nerf

[KDR_11k]

Keep in mind that a regular fireball is a better deal than a single use Leeroy so you do need to get a combo out of him.

The only cards which I think need a drastic rethinking are Pyroblast and Mind Control, because neither of those cards are just any fun to play against.

Both of these are 10 mana cards though, you cannot play them in a turn where you do ANYTHING else and if you draw them earlier than turn 10 you've got dead weight in your hand. Both open you up to being overrun before you even hit turn 10.

PB has a very low damage to mana ratio, hell, two fireballs do more damage for less mana. Yes, two PBs leave you nearly dead but that's two cards that could completely ruin the opponent's early game.

MC is 10 mana for what amounts to a faceless and a shadow word. Again a dead weight for the early match, its only saving grace is that its like removal and playing a minion in one card. It's only worth the cost when there's something valuable to control, a board full of 4-5 costers won't really change much from an application of MC, a flamestrike is much nastier for most boards than MC.

 

[Kyber]

If you're worried about Rag just run a Big Game Hunter. I have no idea why people don't make him standard in every deck, he is fucking godlike lategame

Because Big Game Hunter in your hand makes you very sad when playing against Zoo Warlock and Hunter, some of the strongest decks around.

Am I missing something but how is having a single BGH in your deck such a bad move against a Hunter or Warlock? I don't particularly pay close attention to the meta but people do tend to play big cards at some point in the game (again Rag.) He's even a failsafe if something like a Hyena gets too big, something that can happen instantly because lol Doggies. It's only one card in 30 so even if he's not the best in that particular matchup you have another 29 cards to use. Hunter and Warlock aren't the only things played (buff something Paladin, I dare you) and I never really have trouble with Warlocks anyway. Well maybe that's because all of them are playing Murloc decks and they are really freaking bad. I hit around 10/15hp on average then manage to get leverage and wipe the board and a Murloc deck can't continue to function once it gets shut down once.

He said Zoo Warlock, and by Hunter he probably meant the typical rushdown hunter, both of those decks almost never have big minions, maybe King Crush but even that's rare.

 

[drakonz]

I disagree with all but Ragnaros and possibly Leeroy.

Knife Juggler doesn't need a nerf, because his ability hits a random enemy target. Using the Leeroy example, it's not always guaranteed that the two daggers from Whelps will both hit Leeroy. One might hit the enemy hero, another might hit a different target altogether.

Murloc Warleader doesn't need a nerf, due to being an instant Silence target as soon as he is summoned and being reliant on having other Murlocs on his side of the board to re-coup his cost.

Savage Roar (and Bloodlust, which i'm surprised you didn't put in SR's place) is fine for a similar reason as the Warleader. It requires minions to be on the board to be of any use and most opponents will make sure a druid (or Shaman) has as few minions on the board as humanly possible to remove the threat.

Leeroy is a difficult one, due to requiring the opponent to be ready for him to drop at a moments notice. The only reason most people struggle with him is due to his popularity in aggro decks, which are practically the norm in HS (outside the EU, where Control Druid is the go-to deck at top level, IIRC). Once more cards are added which balance between Aggro and Control better, then Leeroy should cease to be a major issue.

As for Faceless Manipulator...no. He mimics a big, scary thing...but he can't do anything until the following turn. This gives opponents a full turn to deal with it, thereby making it a waste of 5 mana. With the Raggy example, most smart players will attempt to bait a Hex/Poly/Assassinate etc early, especially if they're relying on Ragnaros (or any high-end Legendary) in late game. Your example does also rely on everyone having such a card in their deck which, at the moment, most do. However, if Raggy does get nerfed, then FM might see less use and be seen as less OP.

I'm not sure what Ragnaros needs, possibly a mana cost increase to 9, thereby making it compete with the Dragon Aspects for a spot.

actualy savage roar can deal 14 damage without having single unit in board in previous turn. savage roar + force of nature is common game finisher combination and with any other unit its usualy 20+ damage (oftenly its imposible to clear late game druid board past turn 7 every time)
and problem with leeroy is the fact you can deal 0ver 20+ damage with him using rogue or shaman in single turn. so nerfing him so he cant be targeted by spells by player who summoned him would most likely make him balanced.
otherwise i agree with you juggler and murlock warleader wont rly need nerf and ragnaros would be fine with 9 mana

The only cards which I think need a drastic rethinking are Pyroblast and Mind Control, because neither of those cards are just any fun to play against.
.

both of those cards are predy much dead past rank 15 so i dont see reason to change them unless you are talking about buff

 

[Vrach]

Basically, nope. Everything is playable against there:
1) Ragnaros might be the only exception here, but it's still 8 RANDOM damage. I've watched him slam into a Loot hoarder and laughed. Hard If you get to the point where your opponent can throw out any of the powerful legendaries and don't have a way to finish them off or remove the card, you were likely on the way to a loss anyway. Most class legendaries are powerful as hell as well and deserve being on here more than Ragnaros.

The bigger issue here are classes like Druid that don't really have hard removal. Naturalize is just fucking awful, putting two cards into your opponent's hand is something that really needs to change. Make it cost more, but without the card bonus for the opponent.

2) Faceless is awesome, I agree... but it can also be awful. This is a card that's only worth playing if your opponent has an amazing minion and it doesn't remove it. It's almost completely useless in mid-game and entirely useless against a deck that doesn't rely on really powerful minions (which is not too rare tbh)

3) Leeroy requires a combo to be anything more than 6 damage. Yes, he can be combo'd well, but he can also backfire. Those whelps can be used for a Savage Roar or a Bloodlust if not removed. Miracle deck is interesting, but the name is well deserved. Yes, it's played and played well, but you're still vulnerable until you can pull off your one-turn combo and it can be hindered by taunts and the like. A mage can pull off a more damaging combo without any legendaries (Frostbolt+Ice Lance=pain).

4) Savage Roar=Bloodlust. Cheaper, maybe, but usually less damage too (two more from hero, but 1 less from each minion... and you should have more than two minions when using either). Counter? Don't let his shitty little 1/1 minions. It takes a while to build a deck for a lethal SR/BL and most classes can send it all to hell with a spell or two. Mage's Flamestrike says hi.

5) Fuck Murloc decks. But they are counterable, as a mate of mine can tell you as he's made one a while ago. He kicked ass at first, until his rank rose up a bit and he started playing against people who just annihilated a murloc deck every time. Still, the Warleader is one of the few things that make a Murloc deck a Murloc deck and while I hate playing against them, I don't think it's deserving of a nerf. Pirates are more weapon-based, though I've yet to see a full pirate deck tbh.

6) Knife Juggler is awesome... but very random and easy to kill. Playing a Leeroy when a Knife Juggler is out is your own fault if he gets killed right away and you'd have no one else to blame. Don't get me wrong, it's great to get two damage out of your mirror images or fuck knows how many out of UTH, but it's still situational and random. 2/2 would be a silly nerf because the 2 mana minions are generally all based around 2/3 or 3/2.

UTH nerf was deserved (and not overdone, 3 mana is okay), but knowing how much the Hunter relies on it, you can often punish them for waiting on a UTH combo. Punishing to play minions? A far more punishing thing to playing minions is a Flamestrike. The hounds need a Hyena or a Buzzard to be worth it and that takes waiting until your opponents has a number of minions (preferably at least 3) and you having both the mana and the necessary cards.

 

[The Wykydtron]

If you're worried about Rag just run a Big Game Hunter. I have no idea why people don't make him standard in every deck, he is fucking godlike lategame

Because Big Game Hunter in your hand makes you very sad when playing against Zoo Warlock and Hunter, some of the strongest decks around.

Am I missing something but how is having a single BGH in your deck such a bad move against a Hunter or Warlock? I don't particularly pay close attention to the meta but people do tend to play big cards at some point in the game (again Rag.) He's even a failsafe if something like a Hyena gets too big, something that can happen instantly because lol Doggies. It's only one card in 30 so even if he's not the best in that particular matchup you have another 29 cards to use. Hunter and Warlock aren't the only things played (buff something Paladin, I dare you) and I never really have trouble with Warlocks anyway. Well maybe that's because all of them are playing Murloc decks and they are really freaking bad. I hit around 10/15hp on average then manage to get leverage and wipe the board and a Murloc deck can't continue to function once it gets shut down once.

He said Zoo Warlock, and by Hunter he probably meant the typical rushdown hunter, both of those decks almost never have big minions, maybe King Crush but even that's rare.

Literally just shut a Hunter the fuck down with a single Big Game Hunter. He UTH'd all my minions after playing a Hyena (yeah, that old trick) buffing it to a 7 attack creature. IMMEDIATELY killed by BGH, no damage on me, several cards and board presence wasted by him giving me the advantage in momentum and cards which he never recovered from even with his second UTH.

Shutting down that instant super buffed Hyena with him is actually better than waiting for his legendaries to come out lategame.

But no, "So bad vs Hunter decks lol"

I don't even know what Zoo Warlock actually is, everyone is still just playing Murloc on EU or something. Is it the early double Flame Imps thing?

 

[drakonz]

3) Leeroy requires a combo to be anything more than 6 damage. Yes, he can be combo'd well, but he can also backfire. Those whelps can be used for a Savage Roar or a Bloodlust if not removed. Miracle deck is interesting, but the name is well deserved. Yes, it's played and played well, but you're still vulnerable until you can pull off your one-turn combo and it can be hindered by taunts and the like. A mage can pull off a more damaging combo without any legendaries (Frostbolt+Ice Lance=pain).

taunts are usualy instandly removed against miracle rogue and usualy the moment you see leeroy you are dead you never get the change to use those whelps for anything at all and that makes it extrmery broken 26 damage in single turn with empty board is something that just should not be happening expelialy since there is usualy no way of removing miracle rogues card draw thanks to conceal

 

[Lightspeaker]

Somewhat amused by all of the suggestions really. Both in the article and this thread.

Article:
- Knife Juggler. He's a solid 3/2 for 2 with an unpredictable ability. Compared to Bloodfen Raptor and River Crocolisk he's ahead of the curve. But he's pretty much on par with the likes of Mad Bomber and Wild Pyromancer (arguably Bomber is better because his triggers right away, but its WAY more unpredictable).

- Murloc Warleader. Murloc decks aren't that popular anyway for good reason. And he's very easy to deal with. Yeah, those decks are annoying but they run out of steam quickly if you react properly.

- Savage Roar. Typically used in a combo with Force of Nature. Its ok; but its a one-turn buff for a class that doesn't really have a "free" way to fill their board. If you want to pick this one out I'd argue a worse offender is Bloodlusted Totems from Shaman.

- Leeroy. No. He's a charge minion with a significant downside that opens up a number of interesting playstyles. He's pretty much bang on for mana cost due to said downside and can be played around.

- Faceless Manipulator. Very easy to end up as a dead card in your hand. Its really not that strong.

- Ragnaros. Rag is one of probably four "must have" legendaries along with Cairne, Thalnos and Leeroy. But he plays slow. For his mana cost his effectiveness is pretty much fine since a smart opponent will have removal stacked up. He gets removed a LOT the turn after he gets played. The only reason rag sees more play than Ysera is because Ysera plays even slower and you have to actually use the card. Ultimately you need cards like this if the control or ramp decks are going to be in any way playable. You can't have every deck being tempo or aggro.



This thread:
- Flamestrike gets a lot of hate but is very easy to play around.

- Mind Control is one of the few effective Priest cards. Priest is a VERY weak class at present with poor class options. And Mind Control is one of the slowest cards in the entire game; most Priests only run one at most. It was nerfed to hell about six months ago and any further nerfs to the card would make it unplayable. In fact many are relying mainly on Mindgames and Thoughtsteal instead of it.

- Pyroblast is by far one of the most annoying cards to go against in Arena. Then again Mage is by far the strongest class in arena, whilst being either the weakest or second weakest in constructed. Tends not to be seen in constructed at any decent level because it plays way too slowly for too little impact. At least Mind Control gives a minion to play with.

The only cards which I think need a drastic rethinking are Pyroblast and Mind Control, because neither of those cards are just any fun to play against.
.

both of those cards are predy much dead past rank 15 so i dont see reason to change them unless you are talking about buff

There's a couple of exceptions. I play my own style of Draw-Priest with Double MC being two of my lategame threats and have been comfortably past 15 both this season and last and I've seen one or two people running MC there too. But most typical decks don't run more than one of either (actually I don't think I've ever seen a Pyroblast in constructed at anything above rank 20; the only Mages I see are magic damage aggro Mages).

I don't even know what Zoo Warlock actually is, everyone is still just playing Murloc on EU or something. Is it the early double Flame Imps thing?

What rank are you playing at? I'm on EU and I literally see NOTHING but Handlock and Zoolock from Warlock players, mainly Zoolock. I've played a single Murloc player and that was in Casual. From people I know that play close to Legend level the entire thing is just packed with Hunters and Zoolock.

Incidentally: simple Zoolock deck:
http://www.hearthhead.com/deck=32025/zoolock

 

[Kyber]

If you're worried about Rag just run a Big Game Hunter. I have no idea why people don't make him standard in every deck, he is fucking godlike lategame

Because Big Game Hunter in your hand makes you very sad when playing against Zoo Warlock and Hunter, some of the strongest decks around.

Am I missing something but how is having a single BGH in your deck such a bad move against a Hunter or Warlock? I don't particularly pay close attention to the meta but people do tend to play big cards at some point in the game (again Rag.) He's even a failsafe if something like a Hyena gets too big, something that can happen instantly because lol Doggies. It's only one card in 30 so even if he's not the best in that particular matchup you have another 29 cards to use. Hunter and Warlock aren't the only things played (buff something Paladin, I dare you) and I never really have trouble with Warlocks anyway. Well maybe that's because all of them are playing Murloc decks and they are really freaking bad. I hit around 10/15hp on average then manage to get leverage and wipe the board and a Murloc deck can't continue to function once it gets shut down once.

He said Zoo Warlock, and by Hunter he probably meant the typical rushdown hunter, both of those decks almost never have big minions, maybe King Crush but even that's rare.

Literally just shut a Hunter the fuck down with a single Big Game Hunter. He UTH'd all my minions after playing a Hyena (yeah, that old trick) buffing it to a 7 attack creature. IMMEDIATELY killed by BGH, no damage on me, several cards and board presence wasted by him giving me the advantage in momentum and cards which he never recovered from even with his second UTH.

Shutting down that instant super buffed Hyena with him is actually better than waiting for his legendaries to come out lategame.

But no, "So bad vs Hunter decks lol"

I don't even know what Zoo Warlock actually is, everyone is still just playing Murloc on EU or something. Is it the early double Flame Imps thing?

Rushdown hunters almost never use the hyena, so you probably weren't playing against a rushdown hunter, which was the one I was referring to.

You see, in high ranks, like Legendary, people only play few decks, which are proven to work,(Control-Druid/Warrior/Shaman, rushdown hunter, Zoo Warlock, even Hand-Lock). I don't think I've seen a single Murloc deck since Rank 7, and that was a while ago, so I don't think you're playing against high ranks, in low ranks though, you can just play how you feel.

Zoo Warlock is a warlock deck that uses varying low cost, low attack minions, so BGH is usually just a dead card(a card that sits in your hand doing nothing), just like against rushdown hunter, in which the most you'll get out of BGH is King Crush, if they happen to play it, which they usually don't (it's too slow), and if you happen to be alive after they play it(it's usually a finisher).

Keep playing, keep learning, soon you'll be on par with the meta.

 

[Glademaster_v1legacy]

Certain 1-toughness creatures, like dust devil and the windfury snake are dead cards against 1-damage hero powers. (mage, rogue, druid) Having a good card that has a 33% chance of being a dead card is just bad design, and it would be better if this was fixed.

...hmmm. I guess that's all. Don't want to get greedy.

No they're just bad cards because they are high risk for high reward. Dust devils can end the game in 3 turns so they need to have some draw back. Also you're assuming that the chance of getting a Mage, Rogue or Druid is equal to all other classes which it isn't.

Edit: They're bad cards in a relatively early game dominated meta.

 

[The Wykydtron]

If you're worried about Rag just run a Big Game Hunter. I have no idea why people don't make him standard in every deck, he is fucking godlike lategame

Because Big Game Hunter in your hand makes you very sad when playing against Zoo Warlock and Hunter, some of the strongest decks around.

Am I missing something but how is having a single BGH in your deck such a bad move against a Hunter or Warlock? I don't particularly pay close attention to the meta but people do tend to play big cards at some point in the game (again Rag.) He's even a failsafe if something like a Hyena gets too big, something that can happen instantly because lol Doggies. It's only one card in 30 so even if he's not the best in that particular matchup you have another 29 cards to use. Hunter and Warlock aren't the only things played (buff something Paladin, I dare you) and I never really have trouble with Warlocks anyway. Well maybe that's because all of them are playing Murloc decks and they are really freaking bad. I hit around 10/15hp on average then manage to get leverage and wipe the board and a Murloc deck can't continue to function once it gets shut down once.

He said Zoo Warlock, and by Hunter he probably meant the typical rushdown hunter, both of those decks almost never have big minions, maybe King Crush but even that's rare.

Literally just shut a Hunter the fuck down with a single Big Game Hunter. He UTH'd all my minions after playing a Hyena (yeah, that old trick) buffing it to a 7 attack creature. IMMEDIATELY killed by BGH, no damage on me, several cards and board presence wasted by him giving me the advantage in momentum and cards which he never recovered from even with his second UTH.

Shutting down that instant super buffed Hyena with him is actually better than waiting for his legendaries to come out lategame.

But no, "So bad vs Hunter decks lol"

I don't even know what Zoo Warlock actually is, everyone is still just playing Murloc on EU or something. Is it the early double Flame Imps thing?

Rushdown hunters almost never use the hyena, so you probably weren't playing against a rushdown hunter, which was the one I was referring to.

You see, in high ranks, like Legendary, people only play few decks, which are proven to work,(Control-Druid/Warrior/Shaman, rushdown hunter, Zoo Warlock, even Hand-Lock). I don't think I've seen a single Murloc deck since Rank 7, and that was a while ago, so I don't think you're playing against high ranks, in low ranks though, you can just play how you feel.

Zoo Warlock is a warlock deck that uses varying low cost, low attack minions, so BGH is usually just a dead card(a card that sits in your hand doing nothing), just like against rushdown hunter, in which the most you'll get out of BGH is King Crush, if they happen to play it, which they usually don't (it's too slow), and if you happen to be alive after they play it(it's usually a finisher).

Keep playing, keep learning, soon you'll be on par with the meta.

Eh I don't particularly care to be on with the meta to be honest. I've always gone by the idea of using the cool cards over practical ones, being the best is never on my mind. I'm running fucking Elven Archers in my Priest deck for gods sake. I hit upon the idea that they could probably maybe on a good day make massive plays midgame if I were to hang on to their battlecry instead of just playing her turn 1 for the 1 damage to the face.

They just won me a game by finishing two separate Fire Elementals with their 1 damage. Yeah they're pretty fuckin' bad but the sheer style that can be achieved with them is pretty damn cool. I even try to keep Loot Hoarders alive through PW:S-ing them on turn 3 instead of just throwing them out. Oh and i'm testing having Ironfur Grizzly + PW:S.

I know Priest is the worst class right now but I feel like Blizzard was one step away from making a really good class then fucked it up somehow. Like everything is there, heals, counter heal shadow things, mind controls, kill cards but it doesn't fit for some reason. I like to think it's because they decided to add the card cloning cards instead of y'know actually making a few more Priest cards? Maybe because the Priest class in Warcraft 3/WoW could do that? I never played it but that would make more sense.

I swing around rank 19 and 15. I would be further ahead but I immediately concede every Priest v Priest game before I even look at my hand. They're just tragic to be a part of. I gave up on trying once we were both fighting over a Raid Leader or some nonsense with Cabal Shadow Priests then having the old Mind Control double swap and both of us were on full health forever and we only stopped through running out of cards.

Never again.

 

[The Madman]

Priests are countered by 4 damage minions. They really struggle with removing any minion that hits for exactly 4 damage. Gadgetzan Auctioneer, Azure Drake, Yeti, anything.

Both of these are 10 mana cards though, you cannot play them in a turn where you do ANYTHING else and if you draw them earlier than turn 10 you've got dead weight in your hand. Both open you up to being overrun before you even hit turn 10.

both of those cards are predy much dead past rank 15 so i dont see reason to change them unless you are talking about buff

Yes yes, I know how to play against the cards just fine. I've certainly put enough hours into Hearthstone that I ought to by now. But as I said originally my problem with both those cards is that they're just not any fun. Not fun to use, not fun to have used against. You can't really combo them with anything, they don't really do anything clever, they're just these two big stompy spells that end matches with a resounding sigh all-round.

If I lose to some Jenkins Rogue/Shadowstep combo, that's fine, I probably could have anticipated it and it takes a fair bit of foresight to pull off. Same with the Savage Roar/Force of Nature or even the crazy inner fire tricks Priests can pull off. Hell, even hunters with the damned Unleash the Hounds at least takes *some* effort.

By contrast again Pyro and MC are just... they're boring. That's why I dislike those two cards.

 

[Vrach]

- Flamestrike gets a lot of hate but is very easy to play around.

True, but it's a pain in the ass and the same way it can be played around, it can also be played around being played around. If you know what I mean

Basically, you're either in fear of throwing minions on the board or you're risking most/all of them getting wiped. Yes, if you can bait it out on turn 7 and have the opposing mage practically "waste" a turn and then throw minions out in response, then yes, you can fuck a mage up. But a lot of good mages aren't going to let you do that. When they have minions on the board on turn 7 and a Flamestrike in their hand, you're fucked. It doesn't matter if your minions are stronger or more numerous, they're all gonna either die (likely on turn 7, because 4 damage is a lot to minions at that point) or be left in a sorry state, ready to be picked off with Flameblasts next turn.

Btw, anyone seen what my mates and I call a Darkwell? It's fucking hilarious, throw down an Auchenai Soulpriest and a Lightwell and watch the insidious little bastard kill your wounded minions off randomly

 

[Glademaster_v1legacy]

Priests are countered by 4 damage minions. They really struggle with removing any minion that hits for exactly 4 damage. Gadgetzan Auctioneer, Azure Drake, Yeti, anything.

Both of these are 10 mana cards though, you cannot play them in a turn where you do ANYTHING else and if you draw them earlier than turn 10 you've got dead weight in your hand. Both open you up to being overrun before you even hit turn 10.

both of those cards are predy much dead past rank 15 so i dont see reason to change them unless you are talking about buff

Yes yes, I know how to play against the cards just fine. I've certainly put enough hours into Hearthstone that I ought to by now. But as I said originally my problem with both those cards is that they're just not any fun. Not fun to use, not fun to have used against. You can't really combo them with anything, they don't really do anything clever, they're just these two big stompy spells that end matches with a resounding sigh all-round.

If I lose to some Jenkins Rogue/Shadowstep combo, that's fine, I probably could have anticipated it and it takes a fair bit of foresight to pull off. Same with the Savage Roar/Force of Nature or even the crazy inner fire tricks Priests can pull off. Hell, even hunters with the damned Unleash the Hounds at least takes *some* effort.

By contrast again Pyro and MC are just... they're boring. That's why I dislike those two cards.

With the amount of cycling that goes into Miracle Rogue and Hunter getting those cards requires about as much effort as Mind Control or Pyroblast. Gadgetzan basically cycles a large portion of the deck and Hunter has Tracking for consistency and deck thinning on top of Flare for deck thinning and a cycle. Also the Druid one is 2 cards. It isn't hard to come up with 2 specific cards to combo in the course of the game.

 

[The Madman]

Pyro is just a pain, since its ONLY use is to deal damage to the enemy hero.

Mind control can be easily played around though, and I disagree in how you think it's a boring card. I find it to be quite fun, and can be a huge turnaround to cocky players.

It's not fun to have to play around though, as it makes playing a big creature to try and save yourself impossible. For example if I'm playing my pally deck and I throw down a Tirion at the last moment it can save my ass against the right player, especially if I've been counting their removal and know there's no assassination/hex/poly/etc on the way. But against a priest? Late game cards like that just aren't an option, I can't even play them because I know it's just going to end up hurting me.

MC takes an entire dynamic out of Hearthstones late game experience and I think that's lame and unfun. Ragnaros? Ysera? Tirion? Like hell I'm playing any of those against a priest. Maybe if MC was like Shadow Madness where the effect only lasted one turn but with a reduced cost? Then you could combo it with other cards and do neat tricks with it... But as it stands right now I just don't like it. Same with Pyroblast. Again I just don't think they're fun cards and that they're also so powerful just makes it worse.

You can't really do anything with them, they just end games in an unsatisfying manner with minimal effort. Eug.

 

[Ferisar]

Pyro is just a pain, since its ONLY use is to deal damage to the enemy hero.

Mind control can be easily played around though, and I disagree in how you think it's a boring card. I find it to be quite fun, and can be a huge turnaround to cocky players.

It's not fun to have to play around though, as it makes playing a big creature to try and save yourself impossible. For example if I'm playing my pally deck and I throw down a Tirion at the last moment it can save my ass against the right player, especially if I've been counting their removal and know there's no assassination/hex/poly/etc on the way. But against a priest? Late game cards like that just aren't an option, I can't even play them because I know it's just going to end up hurting me.

MC takes an entire dynamic out of Hearthstones late game experience and I think that's lame and unfun. Ragnaros? Ysera? Tirion? Like hell I'm playing any of those against a priest. Maybe if MC was like Shadow Madness where the effect only lasted one turn but with a reduced cost? Then you could combo it with other cards and do neat tricks with it... But as it stands right now I just don't like it. Same with Pyroblast. Again I just don't think they're fun cards and that they're also so powerful just makes it worse.

You can't really do anything with them, they just end games in an unsatisfying manner with minimal effort. Eug.

See, that's shitty, but neither Priest nor Mage are competitive against current meta-game, which is a WHOLE lot more infuriating to lose to. It's the same mindset except it's more cards that all play on that mindset. Face UTH hunter? Good luck playing ANYTHING. Miracle Rogue? LEEEEEEROOOOOY

...

JEEEEEEEEEEEENKIINNNNS.

I agree that those cards seem really cheap, but statistically speaking they're -so- much easier to play around.

EDIT:
Also, MC like Shadow Madness?

God fucking no. At least with MC they can't attack on the same turn. Imagine them taking your Tirion, smiting it, suiciding it, and then getting the weapon.

pls god why.

 

[iLikeHippos]

Can't say I agree with the reasoning too much on any of the cards you've mentioned, except Ragnaros, seeing as those cards always have a considerable condition to be played properly, otherwise they can be thwarted quite easily or prove outright useless.

To me, the biggest gripes I have is generally Hunters and their cards, that are just akin towards aggro, and aggro alone, for a VERY low mana cost and amazing synergy no other class can even compare to! Their spells and units are simply better than every other class unit in the game (For 6 mana, previously 5, you can/could get 1/2/3/4/5, 2/1 dogs with card draw equal to the hounds spawned, allowing you to either clear the board, damage the opposing hero significantly, and yet still have TONS of spells or units you can play during your next turn. It's like using an AK-47 that has its clip reloaded while you're shooting. It's retardedly powerful.).

They do not have a single card to their class that I do not detest. Name it, and I shall explain it. Just infuriating that you have a 90% chance to lose if you haven't filled half your deck with strong taunt cards.

And it ain't even interesting, especially since EVERY - SINGLE - HUNTER I've fucking met on Ranked or Casual uses the same shitty combo without flaw or differentiation. I can get whopped by a Mage or a Priest or a Warrior through a hundred possible ways, and a game is never the same as the last one, as they have a good range of options and strategies to choose from, while Hunter can only do Steady Shot, Explosive Trap and Call the Hounds, every time without fail and pray that you die before he does, cause he ain't got shit for survivability!

I think the Hunters should just get a massive re-boot of their cards that can allow for more flexible plays than mere aggro combo-wombos that we've all seen a million times and are sick of shit of.
Make it interesting, make it memorable. Not a "Oh, he is going to rush me. Hmmm, hmmm, yep yep" moment.

Or maybe it's just me.

 

[kortin]

Literally all of these cards are fine, you have no idea what you're talking about. Knife Juggler is fine, Warleader is fine, Savage Roar is fine, Leeroy is fine, Faceless Manip is fine, and Ragnaros is fine. This seems more like a "Six Hearthstone cards I can't counter because I suck" list than a legitimately serious nerf list.

 

[heroicbob]

I can see why unleash the hounds is on there every time I play a mirror match with hunters we always end up employing the same combo of unleash the hounds and scavenging hyena(and i realize after reading the comments that this has been done to death but i only started playing about a month ago)

 

[A'tuin]

Literally all of these cards are fine, you have no idea what you're talking about. Knife Juggler is fine, Warleader is fine, Savage Roar is fine, Leeroy is fine, Faceless Manip is fine, and Ragnaros is fine. This seems more like a "Six Hearthstone cards I can't counter because I suck" list than a legitimately serious nerf list.

If you think this (in my opinion decent) list is crappy, please do not check the Prima guide for "25 best Hearthstone cards", you'll have a heart attack. (http://www.primagames.com/games/hearthstone/tips/these-are-25-best-cards-hearthstone-heroes-warcraft)

Some gems from that "guide"
-Commanding Shout, Charge, and Magma Rager is a combo you should use. 7 damage for 3 cards? What a deal!
-Summoning Portal (or almost anything on the list) is better than Fire Elemental
-Defias Ringleader should be saved until turn 7 (assassinate text)
-Jaraxxus and Malygos are the best Legendaries. Rag, Leeroy, Ysera, Cairne or Sylvanas aren't worth mentioning.
-Having 2 Headcracks is awesome, but Priests using heal to counter the Headcrack is "wasting mana"
-Flamestrike should be mainly used with Malygos, because it's very common to need 9 damage board clear.

 

[Alar]

Dropping Ragnaros' damage output (when silenced) would be a good way to bring him into line, or even reducing his attack damage to 7 instead of 8. It would still be amazing value. Upping the mana cost on the Manipulator to 6 would be good enough for that, I think, and the suggested nerf for Knife Juggler is good too. Savage Roar could cost one more at least, or cost one less and buff one less, and Murloc Warleader definitely needs to be nerfed. +1/+1 would be better, definitely. Dropping Leeroy's damage by one, or maybe having it summon three whelps...? It's hard to figure out how to nerf something that's used as a super finisher or removal without removing its uses.