Skyrim Features "Perk" Trees Instead of Weapons Skills

[NezumiiroKitsune]

Why are people craving respeccing? Are you so stupid that you frequently play RPGs, put points in all the wrong things and end up with useless characters? No you're not, so the only other reason I could see you wanting it is to remake your character with a different build. If we do this we first lose a major factor of immersion, you never feel connected to the choices your making for your character and since every stat increase is just one interchangable point, it has no permanence and thus loses significance. Respeccing also allows you to achieve things without putting in the work, especially in games like the elder scrolls, where some skills such as aptitude in the arcance arts can be much more time consuming and requiring of a completely different kind of training to say macemanship. It should be that one character cannot achieve and take advantage of everything in every way, so that what you can do and how you do it has more weight behind it. Immersion is more integral to enjoyment than manipulability of game mechanics.

I'm looking forward to combining marksmanship and unarmed. If they create a diverse and deep web of perks and make slow improvement of general skills still feel integral then this should be pretty awesome.

 

[DaHero]

"Perks" And there's the obligatory CoD reference, have we really sunk so low?

 

[teebeeohh]

the headline made me think: no, please don't replace a unique system with a generic one

but after actually reading the article I kinda like the system

 

[JUMBO PALACE]

Awww no spears? Lame! Ahh well, I like this idea.

 

[Joshimodo]

Question: How does unarmed fit in to this?

Clearly:

Starts out as unarmed, and develops either left hand, right hand, punching or slapping.

At level 80, you can select the other hand as well.

Can I respec somehow? Because if I can't I foresee we're headed for some trouble.

If I recall, you can simply switch to whatever and go from there.

 

[Andronicus]

So now axes won't be blunt weapons?

Good, because the idea of killing people with a blunt axe just sounds... well lets just say it sounds unpleasant.

And messy.

I assume this perk tree thing will apply to non-combat skills as well, like, say, merchantile. Actually, I don't really care how they implement a merchantile skill, as long as they make levelling it up in less than the space of a lifetime within the realm of possibility.

 

[JayDub147]

Sounds like The Witcher.

Bitchin'

 

[Slycne]

"Perks" And there's the obligatory CoD reference, have we really sunk so low?

Fallout was using "Perks" 6 years before the Call of Duty series even started and 11 years before perks made an appearance in Modern Warfare.

 

[AzrealMaximillion]

One guy on a horse charging one guy on the ground is pretty much defeated by the on guy on his feet moving to one side.

There really are only two ways that move can go, one results in the horse trampling you, then mr calvary just swings around for another pass while you get up(if you can), and the other means the guy with the lance only has to move his arm while you try to move your whole body.

Unless you are Neo, you're pretty screwed facing a mounted opponent on foot, unless ironically enough you have a spear or similar weapon.

See the average guy can move to the side faster than a horse intent on charging them can turn to catch up. That and what if the person moves to the side where the lance isn't? The lancer has a lane in one hand. The other is holding a shield. So even if the horse turns quickly it essentially going to lead to the guy on it doing fuck all while his horse has the chance of getting slice up the side of it's gut. This is why one on one a mounted horseman is as at disadvantage to the grounded infantry unit. They can move a short distance faster. That and to not be able to see and prepare for a single horse charging you is pretty failtacular, not gonna lie. Besides you logic doesn't work with the claymore (or zweihander), a sword specifically made to disrupt pole-arm combat. This sword was on average just as long as a lance but with better maneuvering obviously due to it being a sword. This sword had two uses. to break the weapons of pike-men, and to chop off the legs of charging horses. And since horses charging in can't change direction like a person on foot can, the advantage one on one goes to the guy with the 6 ft sword in his hands.

 

[Spectrum_Prez]

Oh boy, this might turn the game into a real pile of shit. Not saying that it will, but it certainly has the potential to. Leveling skills by actually using them has been one of the best parts of the Elder Scrolls games for a while now. Using "perk trees" instead could make this feel very generic and low on depth. Why not simply add these trees in addition to the previously used system instead of trading one for the other?

Ok based on the article, this is what it looks like to me:

You still get skill levels for using a skill. i.e. if you use one handed a lot, your one-handed skill will rise. If you use archery a lot, archery will rise.

What it looks like is that there is a secondary leveling system tied to the first, so that every few levels of a skill, you get to pick a perk which opens up a specific type of weapon tied to that skill. So you could level up one handed up to, say, level 25, then choose between the axe and short sword skills.

So really, it's a combination of two systems. I'm very excited to see how this works out. They haven't completely thrown out the "use it to level it" mantra, but have made it more fluid and forgiving.

Nov. 11. Book it. Done.

 

[Mikeyfell]

[HEADING=1]NO[/HEADING]
NO
NO
NO

the skill leveling was what made Oblivion so good
that's why Oblivion still gets play time while Fallout 3 gathers dust

EDIT: wait, hold on... are they changing the skills from "swords" and "axes" to "one-handed" and "two-handed"

because I'd be okay with that

 

[Ethman91]

I hope they have a more variety of unique weapons. Spears would be awesome, imo. Oblivion, for the most part, only had unique 1h and 2h swords, I never found any really good staffs, axes, maces, ect.

 

[AzrealMaximillion]

1. That video shows probably the most unrealistic way to use a spear ever. Yes it looks sweet but it's a movie. Showing clips of 300 won't help the fact that in TES spears are essentially useless fighting one on one in an open area.

2. Fighting a dragon with spear is really no different from fighting it with any other martial weapon. They breathe fire. You are not going to get the range that matters just by equipping a spear. Spears again are better used for fighting in a narrow passage way, you know, where most dragons in video games are not/

3. Lances are useless when not on a horse and not used to charge infantry. It's the same problem with the spear, which the lance is based from, its too frontal. One guy on a horse charging one guy on the ground is pretty much defeated by the on guy on his feet moving to one side. Lances are cavalry weapons to be used in groups or for jousting one on one. And really is charging a dragon really that smart? Other pole-arms like halberds would make more sense to add.

In response in no particular order...

Realism doesn't matter, it's frikkin Elder Scrolls. I mean, I can crap lightning bolts but can't get one of the most common weapons of the ancient world? If realism mattered only the highest lords/leveld characters would get swords or axes, and if you were the average peasant militia you might get a spear and some animal hides, not a sword, shield, and whole set of armor.

Also, by your logic there is no way to kill a dragon short of arrows and magic. Again, while that would be true IRL (har har) in a video game they need to make the dragons killable by all builds, not just ranged ones. Additionally, there's no saying that 1: dragon fire is instant death or 2: the dragons are smart enough not to play with their food.

Finally: Horseback combat would be nice as well, since someone mentioned lances.

So what you're saying is (going by elder scrolls here) that a guy should walk up to a dragon with nothing but armour, a spear, a shield, and a dream, and just charge a dragon? Good luck. I'm not saying it's impossible, I'm just saying that the illogicality of that is immense. You'd need magically enhanced everything and a shit load of potions and healing spells. I assume that fire will linger on you so it will eat at you HP. And potions. By the time you get close enough to get to a dragon in this game (if they're going to make them challenging, which would make sense) a decent amount of your resources are gone while it hasn't been touched. What I'm saying here is a shield and spear combo isn't the best unless it's stupidly magically enhanced. You can get more hits in with a sword. Now outside of dragon combat, (which is an epic conversation I didn't think I'd have) a shield and spear combo is still kind of dumb for a lot of situation. Especially in a world like TES. What's to stop a magician to cast a slow spell in one hand and a lightning spell in the other while becking away, meanwhile you're charging him. Slowly. Now that they are adding dual spell/weapon capabilities to this series I expect them to have a lot of that going on. Going no magic in this game seems idiotic the more I think about it.

 

[AzrealMaximillion]

One guy on a horse charging one guy on the ground is pretty much defeated by the on guy on his feet moving to one side.

There really are only two ways that move can go, one results in the horse trampling you, then mr calvary just swings around for another pass while you get up(if you can), and the other means the guy with the lance only has to move his arm while you try to move your whole body.

Unless you are Neo, you're pretty screwed facing a mounted opponent on foot, unless ironically enough you have a spear or similar weapon.

im pretty sure the horses are the reason they invented the really long pokey spear that could also slice and stab

that and zweihanders buddy.

 

[WolfThomas]

Damn it those too... And throwing stars. And knives. And darts. And Mark & Recall.. damn you for making me remember!

And levitate.

So now axes won't be blunt weapons?

Good, because the idea of killing people with a blunt axe just sounds... well lets just say it sounds unpleasant.

I agree it was over simplified, the blades thing was more stupid though, there's a hell of a lot difference between knife fighting and sword fighting. At least with axe/blunt, there's similar principles in fighting with them.

Spears again are better used for fighting in a narrow passage way, you know, where most dragons in video games are not

You don't want a spear in a narrow passage way. If someone (especially if they've got a shield) get's passed your thrust your dead. At least with some space you can hit with the shaft or move to keep distance. Also I could understand dragons being in underground caverns with some tight corners.

 

[Slycne]

See the average guy can move to the side faster than a horse intent on charging them can turn to catch up. That and what if the person moves to the side where the lance isn't? The lancer has a lane in one hand. The other is holding a shield. So even if the horse turns quickly it essentially going to lead to the guy on it doing fuck all while his horse has the chance of getting slice up the side of it's gut. This is why one on one a mounted horseman is as at disadvantage to the grounded infantry unit. They can move a short distance faster.

I'm having a hard time finding that notion plausible nor can I find anything to support it historically. Also why are you insinuating that a lance is stuck into one side of the horse. You brought up jousting earlier, that's almost always done across the horse on the same side as the shield. And you're still further ignoring the horse in this situation as well, trying to instep at the last second before the rider can move the lance to the other side is far more likely to get you run over and trampled. Just cause Russel Crowe does it in Gladiator doesn't mean that's a good basis for an argument, as you pointed out with using 300 as a basis for spear combat.

Any attempt at this kind of maneuver would have to be done at the last possible second. Too soon and it's easy enough to correct. If you try to step out, it takes less force and they can create a faster transversal at the lance tip by moving their arm. They only have to pivot at a fulcrum, you are trying to move your whole body.

So that leads trying to step in, which means you need to cover at least ~4 feet(average width of a horse) to avoid being trampled. I'm willing to bet that the best case scenario is you avoid being trampled or hit by the lance, but you are in no stable footing condition to strike out. So the whole situation repeats and eventually the horsemen is going to grind you down.

Besides you logic doesn't work with the claymore (or zweihander), a sword specifically made to disrupt pole-arm combat. This sword was on average just as long as a lance but with better maneuvering obviously due to it being a sword. This sword had two uses. to break the weapons of pike-men, and to chop off the legs of charging horses. And since horses charging in can't change direction like a person on foot can, the advantage one on one goes to the guy with the 6 ft sword in his hands.

I believe you're confusing some facts here. Zweihänder were historically deployed against foot pike-men, you are correct in that their alleged purpose was to break the pole-arm, but they were not touted as anti-calvary weapons, that's what pole-arms were for. A 55-60 inch great sword is not "just as long" as 3-4 meter lance, I don't know where you are even getting that notion. And I couldn't find any definitive records indicating practice in chopping out the horses legs, the standard practice against a calvary charge was actually to place a hand on the ricasso(blunt) portion of the blade and to use them as a short pole-arm. Chopping at the legs would actually ignore the classic problem of this mounted vs footman scenario, the lance would hit you before you could strike perpendicularly to the legs.

Some Asian cultures did have "horse chopping" swords, but these cultures also lacked lanced calvary like our discussion.

Now a proper pole-arm against a rider would be another story.

 

[BeepBoopBrother]

Still no spears?
Feels bad, man.

Still, I kinda like the idea of a skill tree instead of individual skills. We'll have to see how that plays out in November. I'm so pumped!

 

[SimuLord]

What made Elder Scrolls great + all the gameplay improvements from Fallout (and possibly even stuff they learned from watching Obsidian improve on their game in every way conceivable) = even better Elder Scrolls?

Do the math, that's an equation for a Game of the Year

 

[Live4Lotus]

This should be very easy to implement; all they need to do is to copy from fallout 3 or fallout NV...they could even transfer over most of the perks.