Skyrim: Same button-mashing level system as before?

[Onyx Oblivion]

*snip*

Stop min/max'ing so damn much. Oblivion is quite simple to be effective. In. Really, just use skills naturally as you wander, and try and only focus on 2/3 key stats. Even with just +2/3, you'll hit 100 by 25, assuming your race fits your playstyle.

Unless you are exploiting Alchemy to make money quickly via dozens of Restore Fatigue potions, you likely won't level way too fast. They actually did a pretty job of it, which I realized after 4,000 hours of the bloody thing. UNMODDED.

Sure, not EVERYTHING works in Oblivion without grinding. But a hell-uv-a-lot does work.

The leveling ruined it for me. It also, apparently, was a huge concern for the developers - thankfully.

http://www.rockpapershotgun.com/2011/04/18/20-best-things-about-skyrim/

Pretty good link, see #9 - they did address most of my concerns.

I'm definitely not gonna like it as much without the scaling. Maybe someone will make a mod to add it back in...

 

[The Gnome King]

Luckily, there are mods that fix this, but if you don't use them, you'll be absolutely fucked at level 20 if you haven't been maxing out your skills.

This, precisely. I maintain that anybody who claims otherwise is setting their difficulty bar to minimum.

 

[Kinguendo]

SO you turned it into a grindfest because you wanted all 5s every level and you blame the game? You should be thankful you got that choice.

 

[Woodsey]

And please don't tell me the C I've seen people keep putting in front of RPG stands for "combat".

It stands for computer, I believe. Which is arrogant, imo.

Pointless, but why arrogant?

It heavily implies that most console RPGs aren't RPGs, and that merely being on a console makes them inferior.

Hell, I played Dragon Age 1 on a console, and the combat was basically EQUALLY strategic as the PC version. We did lack Move To Point and the isometric camera, though. But the rest of the strategic options were still there. And move to point didn't matter too much, either, since you can set AIs to stay at range.

Are you sure it doesn't just provide a distinction between video game RPGs and P&P RPGs, and you're just being overly-sensitive?

 

[The Gnome King]

I'm definitely not gonna like it as much without the scaling. Maybe someone will make a mod to add it back in...

I actually don't mind the scaling so much; it was the actual *leveling* process that required me to maximize certain skills to get the attributes I needed that I disliked.

If they had a level-scaled world with an experience point system from Fallout 3, for example, I'd be fine. What it sounds like they are doing is making it much easier to level without worrying about what skills you are using to maximize attributes.

Which makes me a happy gnome.

 

[StBishop]

Pointless, but why arrogant?

It implies that "real" RPG's are non-computer ones.

Similar to how Football is called "European Football" in the States, while a newer game ("Grid Iron"/NFL), which was introduced by a country that already knew of the existence of a game called Football, is called football.

Like calling Dragon Age on console CDA:O because the only real Dragon Age is on PC. As we all know; Har Har

 

[The Gnome King]

Are you sure it doesn't just provide a distinction between video game RPGs and P&P RPGs, and you're just being overly-sensitive?

I didn't mean anything anti-console by it; I have a PS3 and love it - along with my computers. I played DA: Origins on the PS3 and loved it. I played DA2 on the PC and loved it.

I was simply providing the distinction between P&P RPGs (which I also play) - I also use the term "CRPG" to define a console RPG, like DA:O on the PS3.

Just FYI.

The Gnome has been accused of arrogance before, but not in that sense.

 

[drizztmainsword]

And please don't tell me the C I've seen people keep putting in front of RPG stands for "combat".

It stands for computer, I believe. Which is arrogant, imo.

Pointless, but why arrogant?

It heavily implies that most console RPGs aren't RPGs, and that merely being on a console makes them inferior.

Hell, I played Dragon Age 1 on a console, and the combat was basically EQUALLY strategic as the PC version. We did lack Move To Point and the isometric camera, though. But the rest of the strategic options were still there. And move to point didn't matter too much, either, since you can set AIs to stay at range.

Are you sure it doesn't just provide a distinction between video game RPGs and P&P RPGs, and you're just being overly-sensitive?

I think you hit that one right on the button. The differences in depth between pen-and-paper RPGs and electronic RPGs is astounding. You can do so much more when the game world is controlled by an actual person

 

[Woodsey]

Pointless, but why arrogant?

It implies that "real" RPG's are non-computer ones.

Like calling Dragon Age on console CDA:O because the only real Dragon Age is on PC. As we all know; Har Har

Those seem like two conflicting points.

Also, I'm pretty sure its just the P&P distinction like I said to Onyx. CRPG is what they were known as when they first came out on computers.

 

[Onyx Oblivion]

Are you sure it doesn't just provide a distinction between video game RPGs and P&P RPGs, and you're just being overly-sensitive?

Fairly sure I'm not just sensitive. There are a shit-ton of different P&P RPGs and mechanics after all, so distinction isn't that simple. Hence why RPGs are divided easily based on place of development, with J & W. And with basic things like Real-Time and Turn-Based. the lines are too blurry, maaaaaaaaaan.

 

[The Gnome King]

SO you turned it into a grindfest because you wanted all 5s every level and you blame the game? You should be thankful you got that choice.

I turned it into a "grindfest" because pretty much every leveling guide out there warned about the "level scaling" of creatures and warned that on normal difficulty if you did NOT maximize certain attributes you would be killed, easily, by equal level monsters.

I found this to be true, so I started "grinding" those 5 attribute points and it worked for me.

It looks like in Skyrim this won't be an issue because they fixed the "grinding" problem - which other people - many, many other people - have complained about. It wasn't just This Gnome.

It was enough of an issue that the developers revamped the entire system.

 

[Woodsey]

And please don't tell me the C I've seen people keep putting in front of RPG stands for "combat".

It stands for computer, I believe. Which is arrogant, imo.

Pointless, but why arrogant?

It heavily implies that most console RPGs aren't RPGs, and that merely being on a console makes them inferior.

Hell, I played Dragon Age 1 on a console, and the combat was basically EQUALLY strategic as the PC version. We did lack Move To Point and the isometric camera, though. But the rest of the strategic options were still there. And move to point didn't matter too much, either, since you can set AIs to stay at range.

Are you sure it doesn't just provide a distinction between video game RPGs and P&P RPGs, and you're just being overly-sensitive?

I think you hit that one right on the button. The differences in depth between pen-and-paper RPGs and electronic RPGs is astounding. You can do so much more when the game world is controlled by an actual person

Are you sure it doesn't just provide a distinction between video game RPGs and P&P RPGs, and you're just being overly-sensitive?

I didn't mean anything anti-console by it; I have a PS3 and love it - along with my computers. I played DA: Origins on the PS3 and loved it. I played DA2 on the PC and loved it.

I was simply providing the distinction between P&P RPGs (which I also play) - I also use the term "CRPG" to define a console RPG, like DA:O on the PS3.

Just FYI.

The Gnome has been accused of arrogance before, but not in that sense.

Pointless, but why arrogant?

It implies that "real" RPG's are non-computer ones.

Similar to how Football is called "European Football" in the States, while a newer game ("Grid Iron"/NFL), which was introduced by a country that already knew of the existence of a game called Football, is called football.

Like calling Dragon Age on console CDA:O because the only real Dragon Age is on PC. As we all know; Har Har

And please don't tell me the C I've seen people keep putting in front of RPG stands for "combat".

It stands for computer, I believe. Which is arrogant, imo.

Pointless, but why arrogant?

It heavily implies that most console RPGs aren't RPGs, and that merely being on a console makes them inferior.

Hell, I played Dragon Age 1 on a console, and the combat was basically EQUALLY strategic as the PC version. We did lack Move To Point and the isometric camera, though. But the rest of the strategic options were still there. And move to point didn't matter too much, either, since you can set AIs to stay at range.

So yeah, you lot figure out all that amongst yourselves. I think I get the idea.

And the idea is that I was right, which is always the very best of ideas!

 

[Onyx Oblivion]

Well, I like roleplaying, and it's bloody hard to roleplay if at level 10 all the rad roaches, mirelurks and raiders have gone extinct and all been replaced by legions upon legions of elite enclave stormtroopers.

How the hell am I supposed to be immersed in an environment where whole sections of the fauna vanish instantly once I take a nap?!

Yours is actually the smartest anti-level scaling argument I've ever seen.

I salute you.

to be fair, though. You'll still see the occasional basic wolf/rat/lower level enemy. Their spawn rates are just lowered significantly.

 

[Zantos]

Was I the only person that liked level scaling? It meant they always had some good equipment. I hated it in Fallout where you still got attacked by the fiends or raiders or whatever that were so low levelled with such poor equipment I made a loss simply by shooting them.

I'm here!

It's the main reason I like the game so damn much. True freedom. Never have to worry about being too much stronger or too much weaker.

Reminds me of New Vegas, "You're free to go anywhere, but for your first 50 hours if you don't stick to a well defined path you will get murdered."

Was I the only person that liked level scaling? It meant they always had some good equipment. I hated it in Fallout where you still got attacked by the fiends or raiders or whatever that were so low levelled with such poor equipment I made a loss simply by shooting them.

Well, I like roleplaying, and it's bloody hard to roleplay if at level 10 all the rad roaches, mirelurks and raiders have gone extinct and all been replaced by legions upon legions of elite enclave stormtroopers.

How the hell am I supposed to be immersed in an environment where whole sections of the fauna vanish instantly once I take a nap?!

I found it hard to get immersed when everyone seemed to think that their switchblade and leather gear was going to stand a chance against a suit of power armour and a small nuclear weapon.

Incidentally I did like that in the article on skyrim not all creatures will immediately become hostile just becuase you've gone within 20 yards of them.

 

[StBishop]

Pointless, but why arrogant?

It implies that "real" RPG's are non-computer ones.

Like calling Dragon Age on console CDA:O because the only real Dragon Age is on PC. As we all know; Har Har

Those seem like two conflicting points.

Also, I'm pretty sure its just the P&P distinction like I said to Onyx. CRPG is what they were known as when they first came out on computers.

Sorry, incredibly tired.
I meant:

"It implies that "real" RPG's are non-computer game ones."

ie. I was agreeing that it refers to tabletop/pen and paper RPG's.

 

[captaincabbage]

It sounds like you intentionally made it into a grind fest. That system has been in TES for some time now, I doubt it will be changing in Skyrim, though I'm not going to rule it out after seeing the revamped skill system.

Sorry OP, but I've gotta back this guy up here. It sounds like you're just a bit OCD. YOu don't have to level up every single stat as much as possible, that's the whole point of the game's levelling system. You only level up the abilities you use, thus you automatically specialize in what you want to use without even thinking about it.

 

[The Gnome King]

It sounds like you intentionally made it into a grind fest. That system has been in TES for some time now, I doubt it will be changing in Skyrim, though I'm not going to rule it out after seeing the revamped skill system.

Sorry OP, but I've gotta back this guy up here. It sounds like you're just a bit OCD. YOu don't have to level up every single stat as much as possible, that's the whole point of the game's levelling system. You only level up the abilities you use, thus you automatically specialize in what you want to use without even thinking about it.

Except... it never worked this way. Your combat abilities would be pitiful if you leveled something too quickly. By the time you reached level 10, on normal difficulty if you were getting +2's and +3's in random attributes not related to combat, you were dead meat.

This was so well known entire internet articles were written on it.

Like this one:

http://www.uesp.net/wiki/Oblivion:Efficient_Leveling

 

[Kinguendo]

SO you turned it into a grindfest because you wanted all 5s every level and you blame the game? You should be thankful you got that choice.

I turned it into a "grindfest" because pretty much every leveling guide out there warned about the "level scaling" of creatures and warned that on normal difficulty if you did NOT maximize certain attributes you would be killed, easily, by equal level monsters.

I found this to be true, so I started "grinding" those 5 attribute points and it worked for me.

It looks like in Skyrim this won't be an issue because they fixed the "grinding" problem - which other people - many, many other people - have complained about. It wasn't just This Gnome.

It was enough of an issue that the developers revamped the entire system.

So the game wasnt easy enough for you? Change the difficulty or just dont go venturing in dangerous places. I fully completed it and its DLC with absolutely NO problems with killing things except for when I got cocky and thought I could take enemies that clearly outclasses me.

 

[Ickorus]

Luckily, there are mods that fix this, but if you don't use them, you'll be absolutely fucked at level 20 if you haven't been maxing out your skills.

This, precisely. I maintain that anybody who claims otherwise is setting their difficulty bar to minimum.

Mine is set to the hardest and I just play the game without worrying much about stats.

My big issue is having to circle-strafe enemies to win and being punished for actually fighting them head-on.

 

[Gill Kaiser]

They've changed it. They removed the old attribute / x5 multiplier system, and replaced it with a levelling system based on your skill level ups. Every time you level up a skill you get closer to levelling up overall, with higher level skill-ups contributing more than lower level ones.

Seems like it could work pretty well.