Skyrim: Stormcloak or Empire?

[Spiritofpower]

Here's a map of Tamriel

Empire= High Rock, Cyrodiil, Skyrim
Argonian forces= Black Marsh, Morrowind
Almeri Dominion (Thalmor)=Summerset Isle, Valenwood
Unaligned= Hammerfell, Elseweyer

Spoiler: map

Actually, you just made my choice a whole lot easier. Empire. The Empire, as of now, controls the majority of Tamriel. So, if they can form a temporary alliance with the Redguards and Argonians, and preferably the Khajiiti, they can bring down a massive army of all but 2 Tamrielic races on Valenwood, add the Bosmeri to their army, and then proceed to curb-stomp the Altmeri. Then they can see about setting up common currency and trade among the provinces, so the biggest peacetime advantages the Empire gave are still there, without anyone chafing under their rule.

Conversely, if the Stormcloaks win, then they need to forge an alliance with several races they're racist against, as well as with the people they just threw out of Skyrim via a bloody civil war. Not nearly as promising. All racist and "best for Skyrim" issues aside, it would be far easier for the Empire to build up an army capable of challenging the Dominion than the Stormcloaks. The Stormcloaks might find it easier to ally with the Redguards than the Empire, but if the Redguards have a good leader, he/she will surely see that a temporary alliance with the Empire is best overall. If the Dominion isn't beaten, they're gonna conquer everything except Hammerfell, and then proceed to throw gigantic amounts of troops at them, to the point it would take a Hero to stop them. (side note, Hero = TES protagonist)

 

[lumenadducere]

Empire. There's far too much information in the books and from NPCs that shows that the war with the Thalmor is far from over, and there's no way that Skyrim would survive on its own against them. Plus, there are tons of Nords serving in the Imperial army that are stationed elsewhere, and it seems like a huge disservice for them to come home only to suddenly be "traitors" and ostracized/exiled/killed.

The clincher for me though was a line from Jarl Elisif when she said that it seems like more of a disservice to Talos to undermine the Empire he built in his life than to temporarily reduce the worship he receives in death. And people still worship Talos privately and used to do so even after the White-Gold Concordat, it's just that when Ulfric started making a big deal out of it the Thalmor started coming into Skyrim to crack down. Plus there's the book in the Thalmor Embassy that says that Ulfric is one of their assets - meaning that their goal is to divide Skyrim from the Empire so both become weaker, just like they did with Hammerfell.

So, yes. Far, far too much info to make it seem like the Stormcloaks are misguided at best, and Ulfric's being a jerk and his supporters' racism on top of that just made it a no-go for me.

 

[ShindoL Shill]

its a choice of either the racist fucksocks
or the less-racist pussyshits.

i went with the side that didnt try to make my head into a bowling ball.

 

[ryo02]

Joined the Stormcloaks because it seemed the natural thing to do. Although further into the game I started to think that Ulfric is just a power-hungry racist douchebag and the empire's really not so bad.

I mean, the worst thing the empire did is outlawing the worship of Talos, but that was a condition forced on the empire because the Thalmor had them by balls. (uh oh. bad mental image. go away!)

And the first major battle in the Stormcloak campaign didn't sit well with me. I liked that town

Is it possible to switch sides when you're already deep into the quest line for one faction?

same here by the time I realised most none nords were in the slums and cought on to how Ulfric could be at times it was too late.

I understood why they were fighting but Ulfric urgh they need a new leader.

at the end I refused to kill Tulius but despite not wanting to stand by Ulfric at the end during the speech I did anyway being an Argonian I thought it might inspire better relations with none nords if I was declared a hero etc etc.

also whiterun was my home and I liked the jarl I didnt want to attack it.

 

[Flight]

I joined neither. Both sides annoyed me. But if I had to, I'd probably join the empire. I really don't like the attitude of most Stormcloaks, especially the racism.

 

[GundamSentinel]

I chose Empire, because the Stormcloaks are basically just Nazis (nationalistic, racist, Nord supremacy, Heim ins Reich, Anschluß type of guys). Sure, the Thalmor are evil, but the Empire isn't working with them because it wants too, but because it really didn't have a choice; accept the terms of the Concordat, or be destroyed.
The Stormcloaks really wouldn't be able to win against the Dominion anyway.

 

[Robert Ewing]

Haven't sided with either. I feel their conflict is incredibly paper thin, I feel no need to do the quests.

 

[Agow95]

I'm welsh so I'm siding with the oppressed fighting for independence, sure Ulfrics's a knob, and my character's a nord

 

[Mausenheimmer]

I'm thinking of going Empire, because the Stormcloaks are kind of being dicks. If a city-i-won't-name won't join them, then they take their axes and level half the place.

Yeah, that happens in civil wars a lot. Just ask Atlanta how Sherman treated it.

As for me, I joined the Stormcloaks. Free worship for a free Skyrim. The Empire failed in its duty to defend its citizens by allowing the Thalmor free reign to persecute and murder Imperial citizens. Lastly, Skyrim joined the Empire after the battle of Sancre Tor and the Nords swore an oath to follow Tiber Septim and his descendants. Seems to me like that oath has been fufilled. As for the assassination, Ulfric made a fair and legal challenge to Torygg's authority and won fairly. Torygg could have turned down the challenge and tried his luck with the moot.

Lastly, I don't get the whole "Stormcloaks are racist" thing. Sure, there are people in there who aren't politically correct, but that hardly makes the movement racist. Yes, the Dark Elves live in the Gray Quarter, but it's important to remember that they were refugees and came as a mass influx all at once. The Gray Quarter makes the Stormcloaks no more racist than New York for having Little Italy et al. The Argonians are largely marginalized as dock workers, but the same is true for the Argonians in Solitude. The worst thing they said is "Skyrim belongs to the Nords", which is more a nationalist sentiment than a racist one.

All that said, I can also totally see why someone would join the Imperials. I have to give Bethesda props for giving both sides of the civil war their pros and their cons and making it an actual dilemma as to which side you should join.

 

[Mausenheimmer]

I chose Empire, because the Stormcloaks are basically just Nazis (nationalistic, racist, Nord supremacy, Heim ins Reich, Anschluß type of guys). Sure, the Thalmor are evil, but the Empire isn't working with them because it wants too, but because it really didn't have a choice; accept the terms of the Concordat, or be destroyed.
The Stormcloaks really wouldn't be able to win against the Dominion anyway.

Really? The Stormcloaks are the Nazis? Not the side which allows its citizens to be rounded up and executed for their religious beliefs? Um, did you kinda forget why most people hate the Nazis? It wasn't for their nationalism. Tell me one line from the Stormcloaks that talks about Nord supremacy. Some citizens in Stormcloak cities may not like Dark Elves or Argonians, but that doesn't mean their saying "Nords are the master race".

As for the invincibility of the Dominion, people seem to forget that Hammerfell kept fighting against the Aldmeri all by themselves for five years and won their independence. The Empire could have kept fighting, since clearly Skyrim and Hammerfell (aka half the Empire) didn't like the surrender terms. On a broader point, you can't let fear (in this case, of the Aldmeri Dominion) strip away basic human rights.

 

[Kriptonite]

After 80 hours on my lvl 43 mage... neither. I haven't done Companions, Thieves Guild, Dark Brotherhood, Bard's College or even finished the main quest line. Looking back, I'm not sure exactly what I've been doing..

That's....creepy.
Exact. Same. Here. Weird..
Anyway, I guess I plan on joining the Stormcloaks because the Empire was going to kill me for, um... "Shits and gigs" at the onset of the game..

 

[Adam Foremanski]

Empire.

Purely because they seem the logical choice for the welfare of Skyrim and maybe all of Tamriel that is currently under their control. If there wasnt a looming threat of extinction from the Thalmor, maybe such a revolt could be considered. As long as Ulfric isnt the leader. That guy sucks ass.

 

[GundamSentinel]

I chose Empire, because the Stormcloaks are basically just Nazis (nationalistic, racist, Nord supremacy, Heim ins Reich, Anschluß type of guys). Sure, the Thalmor are evil, but the Empire isn't working with them because it wants too, but because it really didn't have a choice; accept the terms of the Concordat, or be destroyed.
The Stormcloaks really wouldn't be able to win against the Dominion anyway.

Really? The Stormcloaks are the Nazis? Not the side which allows its citizens to be rounded up and executed for their religious beliefs?

Don't confuse the Empire with the Dominion. The Thalmor are rounding up people, not the Empire. The Empire doesn't stop them because that would mean another war that might very well mean the end for the Empire. Sure, an independent Skyrim under Stormcloak rule might try to do something about it, but there's a good chance it'll fail. Dying while fighting is noble and all, but a very very bad way to run a country. But on the other hand I'll admit, the way the Empire handled it, including the White-Gold Concordat, is not what I'd want if I were a Nord. Still, I don't understand why the Nords wouldn't fight to keep an Empire their supposed God actually created. It is Talos' legacy.

Um, did you kinda forget why most people hate the Nazis? It wasn't for their nationalism. Tell me one line from the Stormcloaks that talks about Nord supremacy. Some citizens in Stormcloak cities may not like Dark Elves or Argonians, but that doesn't mean their saying "Nords are the master race".

Walk around Windhelm, talk to some people (both Stormcloaks and minorities), do some quests for the Dark Elves and Argonians. It just reeks of Nord superiority complex. If the Stormcloaks didn't consider themselves superior, why would they keep the Dark Elves in the dumps and the Argonians outside the city? Some of them are as much victims of the war as many Nords. In many ways the Stormcloaks are just as bad as the Thalmor. Also, go to Markarth and look at the way they handled the Forsworn. And then remember that they didn't have the forcing hand of the Empire behind that, as the Empire has the Thalmor's.

As for the invincibility of the Dominion, people seem to forget that Hammerfell kept fighting against the Aldmeri all by themselves for five years and won their independence. The Empire could have kept fighting, since clearly Skyrim and Hammerfell (aka half the Empire) didn't like the surrender terms.

And let's not forget that this conflict is still far from over, for Hammerfell as well. As long as the Altmeri Dominion is around, they'll find human rule over anything abhorrent. It's not certain that Skyrim would lose, no. But I'd say a strong Empire has a better chance, even though it might take some work to make it that way again.

On a broader point, you can't let fear (in this case, of the Aldmeri Dominion) strip away basic human rights.

The Empire would rather get a disadvantageous peace-treaty with the Thalmor than another war, the Stormcloaks would rather split off and keep fighting. I'll be honest, I don't know what would eventually be the better course. What I do know is that I wouldn't want to live in a Skyrim under Stormcloak rule, especially if I wasn't a Nord. I fear for the basic rights of any Elf, Argonian, Orc or Khajiit in Skyrim under Ulfric's rule.

 

[AlwaystheUnlucky]

I chose to side with the imperials because I did not seal the gates of oblivion and watch Martin Septim die just to see the imperium we fought to protect fall apart.

Sure they tried to kill me (and imprisoned me in the last elder scroll), but what they've done loads of good for the imperium. It helped that the imperial was a pretty cool guy.

 

[kalt_13]

I'm joining the storm cloaks. I'm an old D&d player Talos was my favourite god from forgotten realms. As soon as I heard there was Talos in this setting as an outlawed god I knew I couldn't join the faction that banned him. So definatly no imperials for me.

 

[Ogargd]

I sided with the Empire, half due to Ulfric being a racist, partly because I think the empire was doing a good job and keeping the elves at and partly because I thought the empire had more experience when it came to ruling over places.

 

[ZephrC]

Stormcloaks. The Empire is pretty much dead already. The Summerset Isles, Valenwood and Elsweyr are all under Thalmor control, the Black Marshes have seceded from the empire and conquered Morrowind, Hammerfell was abandoned to the Thalmor by the Empire and reconquered by the Redguards without their help, and Skyrim is wracked by civil war. The only provinces really left to the Empire are Cyrodiil and High Rock.

The Empire is simply too caught up in politics and bureaucracy to realize they've already lost. In fact, I'd guess that with as badly overstretched and universally despised as the Thalmor have made themselves, the Empire is the only organization left in Tamriel that couldn't defend themselves against the Thalmor.

The fact that Ulfric is ambitious and racist is hardly relevant at all. The empire needs to die before it can do any more harm than it already has. Also, comparisons between Ulfric and Hitler are just downright silly. Ulfric may not like the Dunmer much, but I can hardly see him trying to round up every single one of them in all of Tamriel to torture and murder them. All racism is bad, but holy crap people, there are many different degrees of bad, and Ulfric is nowhere near Hitler.

 

[Vuliev]

snip

But forging an alliance between the Empire, Hammerfell, and the Khajiti will be mountains more difficult because of the level of Thalmor infiltration in the Empire. If there were more fleshing out of the Stormcloak storyline, here's what I think should be able to happen:

Spoiler

After you take Solitude, Ulfric states quite publicly that he will not accept Kingship unless it is bestowed upon him by the moot. By this point, though, the player's character is extremely well-known within the Stormcloaks, and likely just as well-known throughout Skyrim as being one of the major factors for the sweeping Stormcloak victories; why not do some political shenanigans, and secure your place as High King? After all, you were the one to actually retrieve the Jagged Crown, not Ulfric, so the best claim to the crown comes from you, not Ulfric.

Moreover, I have a feeling that most of us that went for the Stormcloak option feel this way: that Ulfric's ideals are not in Skyrim's or Tamriel's best interest. Getting rid of Thalmor puppets is a good thing, kicking everyone that isn't a Nord out of Skyrim is not. That's not to say that the Thalmor wouldn't at least attempt infiltration of a Stormcloak-led effort to defeat them, but it'd be a damn sight better than trying to do it behind the scenes, where the Thalmor work best.

 

[kuyo]

Forsworn. Fcuk All y'All.
From what I saw, they probably have more troops too.

 

[ace_of_something]

As a Dark Elf I originally was going to side with Ulfric... then I saw the Grey Quarter... screw him. Empire!