I do agree that this happens a lot of the time in other games, but the point I am making is Bethesda have apparently put so much time and energy into this game yet the AI is still at a very unrealistic level; I am surprised that these gameplay videos were even released after the huge amount of hype there is.Joseph Alexander said:
Skyrim truly looks outdated and average
- Thread starter trsmassive
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Usually people wait till there's at least a demo before that reaction. Plus Skyrim, everyone's been waiting for it for years, you'd think there'd be some leeway granted.DracoSuave said:
Good for you OP, someone has to be the buzzkill.
I, however, will be playing the shit out of it.
I, however, will be playing the shit out of it.
Yeah, I think its the (full) QuakeCon footage, which was (I think) recorded like 2 or 3 months ago, and I'm pretty sure that they fixed most of those bugs since then... Still looks like an amazing game, and I loved Oblivion and Morrowind, even though they weren't perfect.Qitz said:
Insulting and judging me because of my standards is simply negative and pessimistic in itself, I enjoy games, I love games, but I also want them to keep progressing the best they can, if you despise me and my "kind"; then simply don't come into threads which criticise glaring faults in games that we try to love.grimgor42 said:
Shrug. AI is hard. I mean, like computer science PhD hard. You can always hire some computer monkey to add more polygons to your models or pixels to your textures. Its a safe investment.Joseph Alexander said:
Edit: Let me put it this way. As games we won't be happy with the AI in our games until they pass the Turing Test, in a sense. You want your AI to play as well (or better) than a competent Human player. That's asking a fair bit.
I want games to progress, games of today should not have the quality of games made yesterday.BloatedGuppy said:
"The quality of games made yesterday"? Whatever lead you to believe that games just keep improving along some linear scale? Some of the best games I ever played were made 10 or 20 years ago, and they're still excellent today.trsmassive said:
The Graphics for Skyrim are amazing!
And I seriously wouldn't care if they gave it graphics of Morrowind because all Bethesda fans who have played Oblivion and Morrowind know that Graphics mean very little in a Bethesda game.
They don't concentrate on Graphics entirely because what they sacrifice by not including Multiplayer and the newest, most top notch engine will equal more towards an even greater storyline, which is where a lot of Mainstream series's fail.
And I seriously wouldn't care if they gave it graphics of Morrowind because all Bethesda fans who have played Oblivion and Morrowind know that Graphics mean very little in a Bethesda game.
They don't concentrate on Graphics entirely because what they sacrifice by not including Multiplayer and the newest, most top notch engine will equal more towards an even greater storyline, which is where a lot of Mainstream series's fail.
Update, i've also edited the OP with this.
After looking through a lot of replies to this post I can see that there are a few on how the demo is old, and some about how AI is apparently very difficult to program.
If the latter is true, then how is it that we have AI players in games such as PES 2012 and Total War: Shogun 2, more often that not outsmarting players when they play in real time, anticipating what players do, what they are going to do, and (in PES) learning how a player plays, and taking advantage of and exposing the players weaknesses.
If all of that is possible in other games, which might possibly have a smaller budget than a gaming blockbuster like Elder Scrolls, how is it that a (most likely combat trained) AI character cannot simply look around for the threat after his comrade is killed?
On to the point of the demo being old, all I can say is I hope Bethesda are aware of these problems and try to fix them best they can before the game is released, perhaps Bethesda could see these complaints for the demo (the only complaints I and others I see have for it by the way) and act on them.
In conclusion, I love games, open world games, Role playing games, the reason I posted this thread was a long shot to possibly bring it to the developer's attention, to bring to other gamers' attention, and possibly raise the awareness of the flaws in games so we can all enjoy them the best we can and play them for years to come.
"Live another life, in another world."
Todd Howard
P.S. I would like to apologise slightly for the title of this topic, it should be titled "Skyrim's AI looks outdated and average" I am also only slightly bothered by the physics in hindsight and even though that giant did annoy the hell out of me; I am much more concerned with the state of the AI.
After looking through a lot of replies to this post I can see that there are a few on how the demo is old, and some about how AI is apparently very difficult to program.
If the latter is true, then how is it that we have AI players in games such as PES 2012 and Total War: Shogun 2, more often that not outsmarting players when they play in real time, anticipating what players do, what they are going to do, and (in PES) learning how a player plays, and taking advantage of and exposing the players weaknesses.
If all of that is possible in other games, which might possibly have a smaller budget than a gaming blockbuster like Elder Scrolls, how is it that a (most likely combat trained) AI character cannot simply look around for the threat after his comrade is killed?
On to the point of the demo being old, all I can say is I hope Bethesda are aware of these problems and try to fix them best they can before the game is released, perhaps Bethesda could see these complaints for the demo (the only complaints I and others I see have for it by the way) and act on them.
In conclusion, I love games, open world games, Role playing games, the reason I posted this thread was a long shot to possibly bring it to the developer's attention, to bring to other gamers' attention, and possibly raise the awareness of the flaws in games so we can all enjoy them the best we can and play them for years to come.
"Live another life, in another world."
Todd Howard
P.S. I would like to apologise slightly for the title of this topic, it should be titled "Skyrim's AI looks outdated and average" I am also only slightly bothered by the physics in hindsight and even though that giant did annoy the hell out of me; I am much more concerned with the state of the AI.
Still looks better than the Witcher 1 or 2.
Still seems like its going to be more fun than any "modern FPS"
Still appears to have more detail put into it than other devs has been doing as of late.
Combat has never been my interest in Bethesda games really, the world is more interesting.
I found it more enjoyable when I was just looking at the world and exploring, than when I was running around hitting things pretending to be a bad ass.
So whoop de do if the combat is not making everyone yell SPARTA FUK YAH!
Still seems like its going to be more fun than any "modern FPS"
Still appears to have more detail put into it than other devs has been doing as of late.
Combat has never been my interest in Bethesda games really, the world is more interesting.
I found it more enjoyable when I was just looking at the world and exploring, than when I was running around hitting things pretending to be a bad ass.
So whoop de do if the combat is not making everyone yell SPARTA FUK YAH!
You need to understand that the game wont look and behave all that differently from what they showed, even if it was 5 months ago. All those things have been in their previous games and it wont change now.Doc Faust said:
Anyone else feel OP is wanting instant gratification to such a degree, he's expecting a game months before release to be as good as it will be on release? That's what i hear his complaints as being.
The rest of the comments range from "It's going to be good even with it's flaws" and "BETHESDA SUUUCKS BWAAH"...which i find quite funny as there are no other mainstream games that i have had the time of day for, to sink 800 hours or so into glorious amounts of fucking around. People who don't like oblivion, morrowind, skyrim etc etc won't like anything and should probably get a new hobby other than gaming.
The rest of the comments range from "It's going to be good even with it's flaws" and "BETHESDA SUUUCKS BWAAH"...which i find quite funny as there are no other mainstream games that i have had the time of day for, to sink 800 hours or so into glorious amounts of fucking around. People who don't like oblivion, morrowind, skyrim etc etc won't like anything and should probably get a new hobby other than gaming.
Bethesda has an excuse for there games being buggy, its impossible to predict every outcome in such huge games, and to everything else you said, just no.Stall said:
And how much, exactly, do you know about the process of game development? Or more precisely, how much do you know about the process of development on Skyrim?Stall said:
And who says that what we're seeing in this gameplay video is in fact from the build that they're working on on this very moment? Because certain parts of this 20 minute video is gameplay that we've seen quite a few months back already. Large parts of part 1 and part 3 is stuff that we've already in June at the E3, and I doubt that even for that they used their latest build at the time.
It could easily be that we're looking at gameplay that's already half a year old. So I wouldn't be so quick to judge if I were you.
Apples and Oranges. You can't make a direct comparison between a sports title and a RTS/TBS hybrid and an open world RPG and grouse about why good AI in one can't mean good AI in another (and as long as we're talking about Total War, it wasn't that long ago that the AI in that series was the subject of significant hilarity). And I'm not even going to sit here and defend Bethesda's AI, because it's not particularly noteworthy (except perhaps for being lousy). But I can count the number of games I've played with satisfying AI on the fingers of one hand, and one of them is almost 20 years old (X-Com). It's just one of those things I've come to accept is a reality of the medium. It hasn't stopped me from enjoying the games, or looking forward to them. Sure, I'd love a game that was all things to all people, but I guess I just try to enjoy them for what they are. Because, flawed or not, I get a lot of pleasure from gaming, even when mobs are banging off walls or patrolling right over their dead companion's corpses.trsmassive said:
I care not for your petty reasons for disliking Skyrim.
Yes, they are petty. No matter how you slander the developers (who have done a brilliant job), you wont deter those who see just how much fun they'll get out of Skyrim. No matter how you look at it, the pros outweigh the cons.
Both Morrowind and Oblivion have won Game Of The Year.
I have a pretty well founded hunch, that Skyrim will too.
So, when Skyrim comes out, will you sit in your tower of pessimism and soak in your judgements, or will you climb down and join everyone else in enjoying what looks to be, an absolutely brilliant game?
The choice is yours.
Yes, they are petty. No matter how you slander the developers (who have done a brilliant job), you wont deter those who see just how much fun they'll get out of Skyrim. No matter how you look at it, the pros outweigh the cons.
Both Morrowind and Oblivion have won Game Of The Year.
I have a pretty well founded hunch, that Skyrim will too.
So, when Skyrim comes out, will you sit in your tower of pessimism and soak in your judgements, or will you climb down and join everyone else in enjoying what looks to be, an absolutely brilliant game?
The choice is yours.