Skyrim's quest rewards

[Adeptus Aspartem]

This is the moment when i usually point at Gothic 1 & 2 and say: No game has done it better yet.
The connection between your choices, the characters and their reactions are miles better than what TES 3-5 did.

[PS: Mkay, apparently there was an english version nearly a year later for each game.]

Skyrim just feels dead. I had a lot of fun running around corss country and lookin' for stuff (not using quicktravel), but i always had the feeling that i never found what i was looking for.

The Companions seem like they weren't finished and the thieves guild was a horrible story line - basically all the guild and their storyarcs were inferior to the Oblivion guilds imo.

That's also the reason why i spent most of my time in the game either running through random dungeons lookin' for suprise quests or crafting.

Sadly they killed the Series with numero 3 and i don't even know if 1+2 were released on english back then, since Piranha Bytes was a rather small fish. *rimshot*

 

[Xdeser2]

Yeah, it is pretty arbitrary.

Another one of those. *sigh* More and more of you seem to end up on this forum daily. For your next birthday present (or for Christmas, whichever comes earlier), ask for a dictionary as a gift. Alternatively, try using Google to learn the meaning of words whose meaning you aren't sure of.

I do understand the meaning of the word -_-

We just dont agree on its usage here. No reason to sling insults bro.

 

[Xdeser2]

Your argument that skill requirements are arbitrary is just plain fucking wrong, under what twisted logic can requiring proficiency in the skills that a group values and uses in order to join or advance be considered "arbitrary"?

*Does 5 jobs for the fighters guild, each requiring long treks across Vvardenfell fighting annoying cliff racers along the way and back from said quests*

"Were sorry that you wasted hours of your life, but your blade skill is 1 off from advancing"

I will agree its not perfect, but its better than "congratulations, you have never cast a magical spell before but we think you should lead the Mage's Guild even if you have demonstrated no understanding of magic."

Alright I can get behind that haha

(even though you do have to cast a certain spell to gain entry to the college of Winterhold)

 

[Qvar]

Sadly they killed the Series with numero 3 and i don't even know if 1+2 were released on english back then, since Piranha Bytes was a rather small fish. *rimshot*

Did you try Risen?
It's the spiritual heir. It even shares universe (a couple of centuries later).

 

[maninahat]

Much like Oblivion, the problem with Skyrim is that the be all and end all, as far as the game design was concerned, was creating a massive open world "experience". In other words, if you don't enjoy walking around some pretty grey landscapes, killing a wolf every fifty paces, and visiting Draugr tombs over and over, you won't have a hugely rewarding experience. Everything else is piss poor in terms of writing, combat, and general satisfaction after a job well done. How about I get a fucking castle at the end?

 

[Voulan]

Snip

As you've rightly pointed out, from the five total factions in Skyrim, three of them you're technically not a leader in at all. And from the other two, one of them requires some serious time and effort to deservedly get the leader role.

The only real problem I had was with the College, where you could quite happily make your way through almost without any magic at all. Perhaps it would have been better if they had made you cast more spells at the gate to see your expertise. Although, it did mean that my thief character could get in easily to get one of Barenziah's stones, and then just never return. Still, that one is admittedly not the best.

And I hated the Bard's College, simply because you never play any instruments at all as a reward. Imagine being able to busk for money or play a lonely tune on the mountains? Instead we just get called bard occasionally with no indication we are whatsoever.

Otherwise, there was really not much of an issue with the factions. I don't like how this thread turned into a "Skyrim sucks, Morrowind is far superior in every way" thread.

 

[white_wolf]

I agree OP I found it odd that I became Arch Mage of the collage and I could barley cast any spells! At the time I became head of the school I knew basic fire, no enchanting, and very basic herb skills I looked at the teachers of the school and went, I've been placed as lead of this collage when all these guys easily outclass me on so many levels! I felt bad for them, it was comical, but now I've leveled up I'm doing everything I can to earn my place as the Arch Mage even though I've only encountered one dialogue option in Dragon Born DLC that allows me to state I'm head mage and try to impress another mage.

The fetch quest fly in the face of the fact you are the head of or the best of X but there isn't much to be done when the lead is a mute who is also relatively faceless. Its similar in effect to how my Fshep can run around with Kusunagi purple hair and no one cares she's breaking so many don'ts when it comes to battle and Alliance dress codes based on that alone.

The problem is though in games like this is if the lead is allowed to become a somebody during the course of the game how do you then allow this person to still get all the prior no-body fetch quests without demeaning them or do you just make a check point where once you reach 70% completion the hero is now allowed to become head of X group and once this is done all no-body fetch quests go off the board in favor or the new somebody fetch quest that have you taking harder missions and getting better rewards for your new status upgrade. But then we run into the issue of if player A had a backlog of no-body quest before becoming important person B do these accepted quest stay in his/her log and are still able to be completed or do we erase them and cause this player aggravation but make up for it in the new missions with better loot reward?

 

[Madman123456]

I kinda liked the level scaling this time around. If you want to break your game you could just not go to sleep in Oblivion. Your skills would grow with use so you might throw the master version of the same old fireball in level 1.
In Skyrim you have more of a reason to level up, if only for the perks that wont come automatically when your skill reaches a certain number.

The loot is really rather disappointing. Well, it's better then in Oblivion where you get weapons and armor that you already knew, possibly with enchantments that you can do yourself and better. Enchant something with "weakness to magic" for one second, add "weakness to fire" for example, for one second as well and add as much fire damage for one second as your soulgem will allow. Strongest weapon in the game. Add "soultrap" for one second and carry azura's Star for perpetual fun.
In skyrim, you need to disenchant weapons to learn that enchantment, so new stuff might at least be useful there. I just wish disenchanting didn't destroy tho object so that i could take the old enchantment off and then get it back on and add another one

 

[gyrobot_v1legacy]

Snip

As you've rightly pointed out, from the five total factions in Skyrim, three of them you're technically not a leader in at all. And from the other two, one of them requires some serious time and effort to deservedly get the leader role.

The only real problem I had was with the College, where you could quite happily make your way through almost without any magic at all. Perhaps it would have been better if they had made you cast more spells at the gate to see your expertise. Although, it did mean that my thief character could get in easily to get one of Barenziah's stones, and then just never return. Still, that one is admittedly not the best.

And I hated the Bard's College, simply because you never play any instruments at all as a reward. Imagine being able to busk for money or play a lonely tune on the mountains? Instead we just get called bard occasionally with no indication we are whatsoever.

Otherwise, there was really not much of an issue with the factions. I don't like how this thread turned into a "Skyrim sucks, Morrowind is far superior in every way" thread.

You are a bard, but your instrument and tune is the Thu'um, you seek out word walls to learn of great songs and piercing debates that brings men to their knees, turn beasts to ashes and even dragons fear the voice they had mastered.

And even if you are not mage, you are still an archaeologist which is in a sense a magical pursuit.

 

[Mikkaddo]

That has been a problem with the series for a long time. I still remember being disappointed when I achieved the top rank of the Morrowind Imperial Legion. The guards still treated me like a common civilian if I broke the law, and I couldn't give guards orders.

Least it's no end of hilarious in Oblivion when you become the Madgod and get the theif talk from the guards.

Guard: My lord uh . . . you seem to have um, walked out of that home with something that . . . uh . . . doesn't exactly . . . um, belong to . . . well, you"

You: I don't care, fuck you it's mine now

Guard: well yes all in this land is yours however, it would be best if um . . . you allowed us to take it, uh . . . back for you my lord, unless you wanted to uh, stay in the prison. Of your own accord naturally my lord"

seriously, I committed more crime as the Madgod than a normal player just for that shit, SO FUNNY.

 

[Hektor_Victorious]

Because Skyrim is a plain, bad game.

You seem like an intelligent person. At first I thought you were a troll, just trying to get a reaction out of some Skyrim nut, but now that I've read all your posts I see you actually do have a point. The guild quests in Skyrim are tiresome after a time. (I remember doing a rescue mission quest for the companions and the dumb fuck I had to get back to Ivarstead kept on kneeling over the bodies of enemies I'd just saved them from like their death was some kind of tragedy. stupid NPCs.) You probably shouldn't be the archmage of the College of Winterhold if you only have the base requirements to get into the damn building. For the Thieves guild it is fair to say that you saved the thing from rotting in the sewers, but that?s just because the NPCs were too lazy to get off their asses and go do the damn quests themselves. It is true that Kodlak saw no alternative to letting you be the new harbinger of the companions, because the other inner circle members all had stakes in different camps, and none of them could really do the job right (as he saw it.) As for the dark brotherhood, I actually didn't join them in my original character. I did in fact kill Grelod the Kind, and I did wake up in the abandoned shack with Astrid and three captives. She told me to kill one of them, so I killed her.
That brings me to my 1st point?Skyrim, for all intents and purposes, is immersive. It is fair to say that it is incredibly shallow at some?many?points, (especially with the whole marriage thing. Bethesda really could learn a thing or two from bioware about NPCs, am I right?) but the moments that really make up for that are the ones that you make for yourself. Just because the Blades tell you to kill Parthunax doesn't mean you have to. If you?re as quick with a blade bow or spell as you claim to be, you can actually save Margret from Weylin?s blades in the streets of Markarth. The messenger of the opposite faction (Imperials /Stormcloaks) that you need to intercept can be killed or pick pocketed. While it is true that much of the game is go there?do this?kill that type missions, there are many little things that make the game an immersive experience.
I also agree with you that Bethesda DID take quite a lot out of its series to ?dumb it down? for console players. I have played morrowind, and even within the first few minutes I knew it was more complicated than Skyrim. The whole class choice at the very beginning was alien to me (if you haven't guessed already, I played Skyrim first) and the fact that you could wear pants and shirts separately boggled my mind. I joined the fighters guild in Balmora, and did a few side quests. I honestly should have played it more, and I really do have no right to judge the game by its intro, but the sheer complexity of it put me off a bit. Well that and my inability to see more than 20 feet in front of me at any point in time. Damn haze. (maybe that was just because I was playing it on console, is PC any better?) Also, the combat was atrocious. Stiff character movements and a feeling of swinging at air plagued my melee based Nord the entire time. It felt like SWTOR, where you just stand there and shoot you?re enemy in the face till whoever?s the lowest level dies. I don't know if MMO or RPG players get a rush from decimating other players and NPCs just because they're fifty levels higher, but I sure as hell don?t. As a matter of fact, the saving grace of shooters is that it?s not the guy whose 10th prestige who always wins, it?s the better player (Excluding hackers and campers, you can go #?*! yourselves.) While there is definitely leveling involved in Skyrim, it isn't the only factor in combat. Maneuvering, strategy, and timing all play a role in surviving an engagement. Skyrim definitely seems to have raised the bar for RPG combat (not that I play too many RPGs. If you think another combat system is better, shoot me a link to a video of it.) I have great memories of a 1v1 sword and shield vs sword and shield battle I had with a Drauger Deathlord atop a rock spire jutting out of the sea of ghosts just beneath Winterhold. I?m certain you have your own memories of these things in Morrowind and Oblivion.
And that is just about pins the tail on the donkey, doesn't it? The reason you like Morrowind and Oblivion and other RPGs more is because you played them first. It is definitely fair to say that Skyrim has its problems, loads of them, as a matter of fact, but it is not by any means a ?bad? game. It just isn't what you wanted. And that?s perfectly fine. You seem like a Hardcore RPG fan to me, so that is what you should be playing. Skyrim is NOT hardcore RPG. The game has elements from that genre, but it does not embody it like other games do. I respect your opinions and arguments, but it isn't fair to punish a game for not being something it?s not meant to be.

 

[Adeptus Aspartem]

Did you try Risen?
It's the spiritual heir. It even shares universe (a couple of centuries later).

Yes i did, once i heard Piranha Byte could seperate themself from their publisher and re-start the whole franchise by themself i was all over it.
It was decent though not as good as it's predecessor. Neither the factions, the characters or the story were as good and well-thought out than in Gothic. Specially the dick-move with the endboss + special gear was really disapointing.

All in all a decent game though. But compared to my ~11 Gothic 2 playthroughs my single Risen playthrough should clarify how i think about the game

 

[SajuukKhar]

Except that's a fucking lie.

Factions in Morrowind have skill requirements, rather lofty ones for the top positions, if you're wanna get to the top of a faction in anything resembling a timely fashion, then you're gonna have to focus on what kind of character you wanna play.

You're gonna have to be real fucking dedicated if you're gonna be the leader of just say, 4-5 factions in one playthrough, much less all 16 of the joinable factions.

Not to mention that some factions lock you out of others.

Except
A. That wasn't what I was talking about

B. It isn't because the game you many ways, such as trainers, to get to arch-mage requirements without ever having to cast a single spell. In reality, Morrowind requires you cast ZERO spells to become archmage, Skyrim makes you cast at least 7-8.

Furthermore, Skyrim's guild advancement system actually makes MORE sense then Morrowind's because it requires actual use of skills, such as having to cast spells to solve puzzles in The College questline, or having to pickpocket Brand-Shei in order to get into the thieves guild.

On the other hand, Morrowind's system worked on a "tell me, don't show me" system that ran off of an absurd "get X skills to Y number, and then just tell some guy you have the skills, without ever having to prove you do" system of logic, where you never really had to use magic to solve any of the Mage's guild quests, just get X skills to Y levels.

You never had to do anything in Morrowind to prove you had the skills you had, you just magically pulled your spreadsheet out of your ass and showed it to the quest giver NPCs, despite the fact that the spreadsheet, and the 1-100 skill system, were just numbers made to make progression easier to visualize, and not an accurate reflection of how skills, or progression in skills, work.

Morrowind's guild system would be like a company that makes people the CEO just because they said they had the skills to run it, without ever having to show in any way they could. It was nonsense in every way.

Not to mention that the only factions that ever locked you out of each other were the Morrowind great houses, which had a explainable reason in lore as to why they did it, much like how you can't join both the Stormcloaks and Imperials in Skyrim. Beyond that, you could become the leader of both the native Dunmer Temple, AND the Imperial Cult, entirely rival religious organizations!

 

[Danceofmasks]

Alright I can get behind that haha

(even though you do have to cast a certain spell to gain entry to the college of Winterhold)

You don't ... if you just do the main quest until you have to get in, you can just shout at Faralda and be done with it.

 

[Danceofmasks]

Alright I can get behind that haha

(even though you do have to cast a certain spell to gain entry to the college of Winterhold)

You don't ... if you just do the main quest until you have to get in, you can just shout at Faralda and be done with it.

what about the first major quest, where you cast a spell at the wall. i havent tested if that works with shouts

Every character starts with flames, which is enough to get through that bit.
You also find basic spellbooks nearby whenever you need one, such as needing frost to focus a crystal, but there's a huge difference between novice spells that any PC can cast, vs the ones required for Faralda's test (well, except for heal other).

 

[bug_of_war]

Well then you must have come away pretty fucking disappointed.

I'm kind of confused where this whole "It's not supposed to be Dark Souls" thing came from, my problem with Skyrim has never been that it's too easy, even if it is pretty embarrassingly easy.

I mean, I love Morrowind, and toward the endgame, that game basically plays itself because you become so ludicrously powerful.

But that's the point, once I get that far I SHOULD be powerful.

I don't dislike level scaling because it makes things "easy" I dislike it because it murders immersion.

There's no fucking reason that my level 30 character should be meeting Bandit Lords with so much fuck health that I have to whack at him for several minutes while he poses basically no real threat to me because the scaling is so stupidly set up that health scales way, WAY more than damage does.

The world of Skyrim is dead, cold and non-reactive with all the depth of a fucking tea-spoon, it is the antithesis of immersion.

Even the exploration is a fucking joke, sure there's a lot of places you can go, but there's only like, 20 actual dungeons, the rest are all copy-pasted templates of those 20 dungeons, that and the dungeons are all fucking linear corridors.

The loot isn't worth a shit, because for some UNGODLY reason, Bethesda decided to balance the game like it's a fucking MMO, and even the ancient relics forged by the Gods are fucking worth garbage that aren't worth the weight they take to carry. Because god fucking forbid that the player gets to feel powerful in your single player RPG.

The game is really just worthless, not even mods have been able to salvage it as of yet.

And for a Bethesda game that's the LEAST you can fucking expect.

It sounds as though your jimmies have been pretty badly rustled. Unfortunately I think you've succumb to rose tinted glasses, not being good at the game, and an aversion towards working for something. Skyrim is plenty immersing if you actually take the time to play the game and listen. No seriously, many quests can only be activated by following up on what a passer by says to you. In Morrowind it was all text so of course it was easier to feel immersed, if you didn't read you'd be walking around with your dick in your hand. Skyrim however expects you to listen, it expects you to take your time to understand, something Morrowind only achieved by having an exceptional amount of on screen text (which isn't bad, but is definitely hand holding).

As for the lack of power in latter parts of the game, you're always welcome to turn the game difficulty down if you want, no one will judge you. As for why it takes similar amount of time for your to kill a bandit as it does maybe a regular old dragon, it's because the bandit has armour on and the will to live, They're gonna block, they're gonna attack ferociously, they're gonna do everything they can to be the victor, and if all you're doing is hacking until they're dead than you are playing very poorly. Use your Shouts, use your powers, use poison, use everything at your disposal and I promise you the bandit will last less than 5 seconds even on master difficulty.

I'm not gonna lie, exploration was rather slim, although there were many ruins that gave great atmosphere and made you think about what may have happened there...you know...if you're actually willing to open your mind and wonder what goes on rather than getting angry that the game isn't flat out telling you.

The world is definitely not dead. Completeing the Companions quest line guards and people will comment on it. You fight for the Stormcloaks/Imperials people will comment on it. You go and pretend to be the Gourmet and actually dress as a chef before hand, PEOPLE WILL TALK ABOUT IT. Hell I killed the Bosmer hunter in Whiterun and his brother sent assassins after me, after dispatching of them he would serve me, but he would do so whilst insulting me. He hated me but he knew he couldn't beat me. I did the same thing on my second playthrough, but this time I did so without being caught, the brother didn't hate me, he didn't send assassin's after me, and he mourned his brother's death. THAT, right there, is a world reacting to your actions. If you don't get seen, no one will comment, if you do people will. You don't go around announcing all your actions, so why would everyone know about them?

As for loot, do you really expect to find bandits with Dragonbone armour? Or have a Dragon, something with no pockets carrying Daedric weapons? You get leveled loot, and it makes sense, why would you be able to pierce dragon bone armour with simple iron weaponry? Why would a dragon devour Daedra? Why would simple guards of cities be equiped with the most expensive and powerful equipment? If you want good weapons and armour, they give you the means to do so through smithing. But even if you don't want to smith, you can still find armour that is suitable for you, OR if you're a mage you can get spells that will bolster your defense.

Your entire argument is the same as all the others, and it smells of butthurt and lack of a genuine attempt to immerse ones' self. You're allowed to dislike a game, but don't make up excuses, accept that you couldn't get into it and move along.