'Slut' Parade

[agrajagthetesty]

You may say it's blaming the victim or sexism (how is it an open display of hatred or contempt for women? If anything it's actually more prejudiced against promiscuouity in which case I fail to see the problem) but in some cases the victims do bare some of the blame for what happened, look at it this way, who is a prospective rapist going to be more interested in? Someone with less clothing or more?

Now I think about it, this isn't even blaming the victim, that would be if you were faced with a case of something that was completely unavoidable and could not be helped then berating the victim would be somewhat harsh (what were they supposed to do about it?) but if the request here is 'if you're worried about sexual assault then don't dress provocatively' then that's not really 'blaming the victim' as much as telling someone 'don't run with scissors' is.

Don't get me wrong, my sympathy goes out to rape victims (it is a horrible and unforgiveable crime) but this just reeks of 'I wanna do as I please but still be allowed to wail as loud as possible if it comes back to bite me' to me.

Saying that the victims bear even some of the blame (which you just did) counts as blaming the victim.

Also, there is no evidence to back up your implication that rapists are more likely to target scantily-clad women. You may think that it's "obvious" or "logical" that this would be the case, but until there's evidence, you cannot use this assumption to justify telling women how they should dress. In fact, as has already been stated in this thread, 89% of rapists say that their victim did not provoke them in any way and that they were not sexually attracted to their victim. Rape isn't about the perpetrator being overwhelmed with lust. It's about power. Any person, no matter their gender, age or manner of dress, is a potential target, and nowhere is there evidence that dressing provocatively makes you a more likely one.

Running with scissors makes you more likely to stab yourself with scissors. Dressing provocatively does not make you more likely to be raped. It's not a valid comparison.

 

[maninahat]

And why is the word "SLUT" on this lady's sign in quotation marks? This lady needs to commit to the cause. And what font is she using? As for the other sign, "Sluts say YES" completely misses the the point of the protest. Or perhaps the reporter did.

She is referring to the way in which her promiscuity is decried as "slutty", a pejorative term used to imply that women shouldn't behave that way. She is happy to be promiscuous, but she doesn't appreciate being looked down on for it.

 

[cobra_ky]

Anal stimulation also directly stimulates the prostate, prompting physical arousal. i've gotten erections from farting before; it doesn't mean i subconsciously enjoying farting. (to be quite honest, it bothers me a great deal) you seem to think that unconscious physical responses to unwanted stimuli are relevant for some reason.

That's interesting..

I don't mean to be insensitive. It sounds very awkward, but I totally did not know that could happen. I guess my body just isn't very receptive.

I guess it just goes to show that you can't easily generalize about human physiology.

i'm kind of unique in that i have a bowel condition that causes a lot of pressure to build up in the colon. it's also tremendously painful so i probably fixate on it a great deal more than usual.

 

[Hive Mind]

Even with children, most rapes are carried out by people they know. Obviously the contextual line "spent the night with them" would have to be taken out because children don't spend nights out at bars - but that was my whole point in the first place.!

"Rape is considered a 'crime of youth,' where fifty to sixty-three percent of reported rapes were of women under age 18, while sixteen to twenty-nine percent were under age 12." (Greenberg, Bruess and Haffner, 572; Lips, 233)

"Seventy-four percent of females under age 14 who have had 'sexual relations' are survivors of rape." (Greenberg, Bruess and Haffner, 572)


"Females ages 16-24 have the highest likelihood of rape - two to three times higher." (Norment, 152; Rathus, Nevid and Fichner-Rathus, 565)

"Teens 16 to 19 were three and one-half times more likely than the general population to be victims of rape, attempted rape or sexual assault." (National Crime Victimization Survey. Bureau of Justice Statistics, U.S. Department of Justice, 1996.)

"According to the Justice Department, one in two rape victims is under age 18; one in six is under age 12." (Child Rape Victims, 1992. U.S. Department of Justice.)

One quarter of rapes in the U.S are committed by a stranger (US Bureau of Justice Statistics)

There you go.

Now, don't backpedal. One cannot make a statement and then latter request the reader add or remove words. You said most rapes occur between individuals who have had sex in the past. This is incorrect. Simple.

Why can you not simply mend your error and move on?

 

[Jimbo1212]

Hmmm. Evolution of wording is a gradual thing. Forcing it through active protest may be the only obvious way to get it done, but it's gonna be tough. The article claims that the gay community owned the word "queer". But their approach of owning it was a little different. They already had selective gay gatherings and events where they could continue to have this message heard. The "sluts" do not have this system in place. If you hear something enough, you will eventually accept it to be true. If someone yells something in your face a few times, you are much more likely to dismiss it.

And why is the word "SLUT" on this lady's sign in quotation marks? This lady needs to commit to the cause. And what font is she using? As for the other sign, "Sluts say YES" completely misses the the point of the protest. Or perhaps the reporter did.

The issue is though, that slut has never meant anything else and it would still mean the same thing, they just don't want the negative connotation that comes with it. This is not an issue with grammar but with societies view on girls who sleep about and I doubt some silly protest will change that, especially when biology would disagree with them.

 

[SillyBear]

Now, don't backpedal. One cannot make a statement and then latter request the reader add or remove words. You said most rapes occur between individuals who have had sex in the past. This is incorrect. Simple.

Wait, what? I never said anything about most rapes occurring between people who have had sex before. I said most rapes occur between people who know each other. "Spent the night with each other" was meant in a literal sense. It was not a bad euphemism.

You're the only one who has such a huge problem with this and you have completely dragged this thread off topic. Discuss the issues. You are so incredibly anal and pedantic I'm starting to think you are probably just doing this for kicks and giggles.

 

[cobra_ky]

The issue is though, that slut has never meant anything else and it would still mean the same thing, they just don't want the negative connotation that comes with it. This is not an issue with grammar but with societies view on girls who sleep about and I doubt some silly protest will change that, especially when biology would disagree with them.

and what exactly does biology say about society's view of women who sleep about?

 

[Hive Mind]

"Spent the night with each other" was meant in a literal sense. It was not a bad euphemism.

So now you're claiming most rapes occur between people who have slept in the same bed?

Yeeeaaahhhh, I'm gonna need a source or two or three.

One quarter of rapes in the U.S are committed by a stranger (US Bureau of Justice Statistics)

So most rapes ARE committed by those who know the victim. So you're being an agressive dickhead towards someone who is pretty much right. (yeah I know calling someone a dickhead's pretty agressive, too) Kindly sod off

Actually, if you had bothered to read the thread, you would notice the debate is about their assertion that most rape victims have had sex with their attacker.

Kindly sod off

 

[sageoftruth]

I think what many of us have been trying to state in the above posts is, haven't protests always been about opposing laws or actions taken by the government or some powerful entity (I think)? Unlike the government, rapists usually don't care much about public opinion (unless the rapist is a politician), so I doubt this protest will have any impact whatsoever on the frequency of rapes.

 

[Hive Mind]

snippety snip]

There's more 'date rape' than 'penis ambush' in the world. What about that are you finding so hard to understand?

Your attitude and language in this post are disgusting and immature. You didn't even provide any references or sources. Also, we have already established that the majority of rapes occur upon children.

Please, do some research before flinging mud and attempting to insult others.

 

[SillyBear]

"Spent the night with each other" was meant in a literal sense. It was not a bad euphemism.

So now you're claiming most rapes occur between people who have slept in the same bed?

Yeeeaaahhhh, I'm gonna need a source or two or three.

What is wrong with your brain? Seriously. I'm not trying to be a smartass here, I'm generally interested. I've done a bit of psychology in university and this kind of behaviour usually indicates you are either in an extremely bad mood or you have some disconnect between reality and your unique perception of things. You are the only person who even cares about this and it is so baffling I am intrigued. I've seldom seen this level of pedantic behaviour in someone. Granted, this is a forum and you are probably just doing it to annoy me and everyone else.

Once again, "spent the night with each other" meant they have spent time with each other. I was directly talking about people who are raped after going out to bars - which is so painfully obvious I can't even understand how you couldn't grasp that. So, by "spent the night with each other" I meant people who have spent the night at bars with each other before they go home together. I was not talking about people sleeping in the same bed. I was not talking about children.

Context of a conversation between two people is incredibly important, Hive Mind. The overall context of WolfThomas' and my conversation makes it very clear what I was talking about. You have completely overlooked this.

You can't just jump in and start crying because someone didn't include some specific word you wanted to. We were talking about people who go out to bars in skimpy clothing and end up being raped. We were not talking about children so I felt no need to include the word "adult" - because he understood that I was talking about adults. Most cases of rapes involving adults (and children) are carried out by someone the victim knows. This was the only point I was making.

Have a step back and think about what you are doing here. You are creating a fuss because I did not include one word you wanted me to.

The reason why I am not going to go back and change it is because I was not talking to you. I was talking to WolfThomas and he understood what I meant. Everyone else has also understood what I meant. I won't bow to your strange behaviour and amend it. Sorry.

I'll make you a deal. If you can get two other people to take your side here I'll change it for you! How's that sound? =).

 

[Terminal Blue]

Actually, if you had bothered to read the thread, you would notice the debate is about their assertion that most rape victims have had sex with their attacker.

Well, considering that the person who is likely to rape you is your partner, and a large number of rapes involve repeated incidents, particularly when children are involved.

The jury is actually out on the 'most', it depends a lot on the reporting rates which are largely speculative, but it's reasonable to assume that spousal rape is undereported compared to 'stranger rape' due to the fact that it only recently became recognized as a crime at all.

Misconceptions only hurt everyone, and the fact that is whether it's technically 'most' or not, you're far more likely to be raped by a partner than a random stranger. It's still rape, it's still horrible, it still counts.

 

[Hive Mind]

"spent the night with each other" meant they have spent time with each other. I was directly talking about people who are raped after going out to bars.

So now you're stating most rapes occur to individuals who go to bars? Considering the majority of rapes occur upon individuals too young to enter a bar, I'ma need a good explanation and a few sources for that.

 

[Cali0602]

Also, I thought this thread said "Slut Panda"
Am I weird for being disappointed that it isnt'? >.>

I too was anticipating some slut panda, or an article about how a particular female panda is propagating their race better than other pandas. But since this isn't a thread for that. Let's talk about the article:

Three points:
1. Terrible words to come from a police officer, Canadian or not.
2. Noble cause for women to rally under. I see what they're trying to do and I wish them the best of luck with it. Give 'em hell.
3. Ridiculously terrible execution. Flamboyant and outlandish methods are not the best way to "reclaim the word" or redefine its use. "Slutwalks" are not going to make people take the issue seriously. In fact, I think it detracts from the real goal.

Recommendation:
Perhaps they should get people to understand why they wear what they wear and what it means to them. That would be a good start.

 

[SillyBear]

"spent the night with each other" meant they have spent time with each other. I was directly talking about people who are raped after going out to bars.

So now you're stating most rapes occur to individuals who go to bars? Considering the majority of rapes occur upon individuals too young to enter a bar, I'ma need a good explanation and a few sources for that.

Haha, I can see you are being facetious now. No, no I was not saying that. That was simply the subject of our discussion.

 

[SillyBear]

Actually, if you had bothered to read the thread, you would notice the debate is about their assertion that most rape victims have had sex with their attacker.

Well, considering that the person who is likely to rape you is your partner, and a large number of rapes involve repeated incidents, particularly when children are involved.

The jury is actually out on the 'most', it depends a lot on the reporting rates which are largely speculative, but it's reasonable to assume that spousal rape is undereported compared to 'stranger rape' due to the fact that it only recently became recognized as a crime at all.

Misconceptions only hurt everyone, and the fact that is whether it's technically 'most' or not, you're far more likely to be raped by a partner than a random stranger. It's still rape, it's still horrible, it still counts.

Evilthecat, don't worry, the debate is not about the assertion that most rape victims have had sex with each other. He has drawn this from his own bizarre understanding of conversation and no one thinks this apart from him.

http://www.escapistmagazine.com/forums/read/18.282803-Slut-Parade?page=15#11109360

That is my post that has stirred him up so strangely. See if you can do any better explaining the importance of context to him.

 

[Wondermint13]

...I honestly don't think after this anyone can ask me why I hate the human race.

My thoughts exactly.

OT: Sluts have a place in the world. But not in my bed.

 

[Legion]

I think you've totally missed the point of the article, I support them on this. They should be able to choose how they dress without the worry of being raped.

Yes, yes they should.

It is still a rather immature way of going about it though. It'd be better to simply state what you did in the last sentence.

 

[Hive Mind]

"spent the night with each other" meant they have spent time with each other. I was directly talking about people who are raped after going out to bars.

So now you're stating most rapes occur to individuals who go to bars? Considering the majority of rapes occur upon individuals too young to enter a bar, I'ma need a good explanation and a few sources for that.

Haha, I can see you are being facetious now. No, no I was not saying that. That was simply the subject of our discussion.

No, I'm simply asking for proof of your claims - some sort of evidence that backs up your opinion in some way. If you do not wish to provide it, that is fine. Sad that you assume I have some other purpose beyond wanting actual facts in the topic of rape - something that has affected me personally.

Also, your exact words were that the majority of rapes occur upon someone who knows their attacker and who "Spent the night at bars with [the attacker] before they go home together." So your claim of "No, no I was not saying that. That was simply the subject of our discussion," doesn't fit.

 

[Ericb]

It would be, but I still doubt you could pull it off. Some people are still going to have the belief that women who are promiscuous are "immoral", "bad", etc and use slut as negative insult. Creating an entirely different word would be much easier because you'd separate people who have the former belief from those who think a women being promiscuous isn't a big deal.

Now what this word would be, I have no idea, someone come up with something that could become popular.

just to add to this. Remember how African Americans reappropriate the N word, but still the word carries heavy negative connotations when used by a white person? It's still offensive. Reappropriation just means that the group doing the reappropriating can use it, not that it loses it's bigoted sting.

I get that, but just the fact that the gay community managed to succeed almost completely with the word "queer" stil means that i could be not. Better than not trying at all.

Not that there are not people who still use it in a offensive tone, but when it got to the point that it was used in a tv series, might be a statement to a success in that regard.

Anyway, the n-word example is pretty good though, some words are more hate-charged than others. I still stand for trying to flip as many of them as one has the patient too.

Just to clarify, I don't use either the n-word nor "slut" in regular conversation, thought the idea of flipping them still sounds great to me. Language is a reflexion of thought and to transform its meanings will eventually change overall thoughts behind it.

But your comments are very realistic and I always hope that anyone fighting for change always take them seriously in order to avoid being overly idealistic.