So a black actor is considering role of Johnny Storm and nerdrage has turned racist again.

[Superlative]

On the one hand there isn't anything inherently "white" about Johnny Storm, what cultural traits WOULD make him or any character have to be white? Being "white," as far as the United States is concerned, is just being "American," but just being American is something any ethnicity can do. There's nothing about Peter Parker's situation that means he HAS to be white, nor Captain America's (hell, maybe being non-white would give them more reason for rejecting him for military service in the first place). What's left to justify a character's race as being white? Being racist? Or a Nazi? Evidently literally being a part of Saxon mythology isn't enough reason to keep a character white because it's okay as long as the actor is good (I know there's the whole justification that Asgardians are aliens in Marvel, but a similar reasoning could be applied to the Last Airbender, where they're completely fictional setting with people of no predetermined ethnicity, and that never flies with anyone for some reason).

On the flipside, the argument that it's okay for Nick Fury to be black because he was black in the Ultimate comics is bullshit, because that STILL means that in one adaptation his race was changed. Changing a character's ethnicity for a new comic book retelling is the same as changing it for a movie retelling. If you're fine with Nick Fury being black, you should be fine with Johnny Storm being black.

Johnny is fairly privileged, which is quite a white thing. He's a handsome, blonde white guy. He's a stereotypical privileged white guy. So that adds to his over confidence and personality.

I call BS on the "if you like so and so, you haver to like this" mentality. No, you don't. You really really don't. You don't have to like anything, just because you liked something similar.

The traits you associated with Johnny are not racial. do you mean to tell me there is no such thing as privileged (rich, well educated, socially connected), good looking, and confident black men?

the racism present in this issue doesn't show itself much in the form of people shouting the N-word, but in people making statements like that which have the subtext of "black men don't have money, aren't handsome, aren't confident, and should not play characters that are."

 

[Busard]

When it's something as arbitrary as a characters race, and has absolutely ZERO effect on who the man is as a character... then what's the fucking problem?

No, really, what's the fucking problem? If you're getting pissy over something as minor and insignificant as a racial change, you've got some issues. Source material be damned.

Not too mention, and this is the bit people are probably going to take offense to, with so many roles in these films going to good looking white guys, I don't really see too much of an issue with one or two bits going to someone of a different race. That's right, things aren't the perfect utopia of equality idiots tell you it is, and as far as I'm concerned, it's okay to get rid of some of all the goddamn whiteness.

Yeah, fuck respect of the source material, fuck respect of the author, fuck authenticity. DOWN WITH THE OPPRESSION GODDAMIT.

It ain't much of a big deal but calling it racist or some kind of white man oppression agenda doesn't make you look that much smarter. Seems more that the PC people are jumping on the bandwagon on this one by trying to create an non issue more than the fans are.

 

[Apollo45]

So yeah,
http://www.thewrap.com/movies/column-post/will-chronicle-star-michael-b-jordan-be-human-torch-fantastic-four-88881
Michael B Jordan is considering being The Human Torch in the Fantastic Four reboot. Frankly, I think there's no problem here at all. A role, as far as I'm concerned, has nothing to do with the look of the character, but how well the actor can capture or interpret the character, but the comic book community is complaining all over the internet. Seriously, check the comments. It's not good stuff.

What does the Escapist make of this? Do you guys care about the race of a character in an adaptation?

Probably already been said, since I'm a bit late to the party, but Johnny Storm is the brother of Susan Storm, or the Invisible Woman. Unless they significantly change their backstory together, or she's played by a black actress, there are going to be issues there.

 

[theultimateend]

This is not about racism. This is about being accurate to the source material.

Aang, Katara, and Sokka aren't white.

Bane isn't British.

Johnny Storm isn't black.

These are not hard things to avoid fucking up.

Also, Famke Janssen had to die her hair red to play Jean grey. So this would would logically...

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Whiteface_(performance)

Yeah...fuck no.

I really liked the portrayal of Bane but I do agree he's almost never done correctly.

The games make him a mentally challenged brute and the film made him an intellectual crumpet.

Considering the multiverse there could EASILY be a black johnny storm.

I mean...look at Nick Fury >.>...

You know, just once JUST ONCE I want to see a discussion on race/sex/sexual preferences that has people respecting one another, being polite, and not just devolving into throwing insults at one another. JUST! ONCE!

I'm sure you smell wonderful and make excellent food.

Sounds like you think having a lot white characters is bad.

It's a bit of a one-way street. "Race is Arbitrary" but usually followed up with "But having everyone white is wrong."

If it really doesn't matter then why care either way?

Kinda like when people say that everyone is entitled to their opinions but the reality is that only opinions that are generally considered "normal" are accepted as personal choices and harmless.

I suspect people are far more concerned with race than they like to admit. I literally don't care but I often feel like it would be better to just make new super heroes or to simply call upon the multiverse. The past happened, what is done is done, best to just improve the now and look forward to a brighter future.

 

[locoartero]

I think the biggest question is why their trying to reboot that series after the trainwreck that was the other movies.

To. Keep. The. Ffin. Rights.

 

[theultimateend]

I think the biggest question is why their trying to reboot that series after the trainwreck that was the other movies.

To. Keep. The. Ffin. Rights.

Yep. That's the only reason .

[notsarcasm]

They spent a boatload of cash on those things. They are scared to lose them.

 

[xPixelatedx]

If something's non-canon, how can it be racist to point it out?

The funniest part of this is if an infamous black role was taken up by a white person, the same people calling you racist would themselves suddenly have a problem with "the incorrect skin tone" playing the part. People are going to have to eventually acknowledge that skin tone is a real, recognizable feature, and like any feature of the body it can make you look a part, or not look a part. But if anyone can really take up any role, why not have 80 year old man play Johnny Storm... or The Rock(Dwayne Johnson)?

 

[Adeptus Aspartem]

I can say i'm incredibly indiffrent to this situation. And after reading the comments i got the feeling most of the people just have the usualy nerd-bitching going on because not every friggin detail is the same.
I'd accept such arguments IF those movies would be accurate to the source material in the first place.

Also sayin: "There are black superheroes! Make movies with those!" is pretty unfair. When all these comics originated racisms was even a bigger deal then nowadays leading to a very white-dominated comic landscape.

But i still don't forgvie a blond Bond. I can't stand it. Watched the movies and liked them but hated the blond Bond. Growing up with Connery/Brosnan just had a to big impact on me i guess

 

[Drauger]

You know, just once JUST ONCE I want to see a discussion on race/sex/sexual preferences that has people respecting one another, being polite, and not just devolving into throwing insults at one another. JUST! ONCE!

You know, just once I'd like to come to The Escapist and NOT see a topic (or three) in the "Popular Forum Posts" box that's about race/sex/sexual preferences. Just once.

Captcha: ad for Kansas tourism telling me to type "Enjoy Kansas History"
I got a good lol out of that. :3

Meh I agree with you xD, don't we ever get tired of always being "politically correct"? I do, but i don't give a shit for the fantastic four so whatever, cast selena gomes for richard reed, the rock for sue , and lets get species diversity too ! a chimp should play Ben part.

 

[Fappy]

Well... considering his sister is white then we're either going to have to make both characters black or retcon some kind of adoption/step/half-brother origin. I think it'd be far more controversial if Susan Storm was black because then we'd have an interracial romance subplot in the story between her and Reed... Hollywood LOATHES interracial relationships in "family" films. Even Princess and the Frog only had a relationship between a black girl and a Latino guy... he just kind of looked white.

This whole conversation is pointless when you remember that FOX still owns the rights to Fantastic Four and will churn out an atrocious movie anyway.

 

[Edguy]

i dunno, i have mixed feelings about this. a character's race is part of their identity. even if it's not relevant to anything in their character, it's still a part of who they are. at the same time, i can see also how it doesnt have to matter... but think about the following ideas that, while not inherantly wrong, just also dont seem right:

1. black superman
2. black tony stark
3. asian Hulk

Bruce Banner is pretty much a nerdy white boy. Making him black wouldn't be the end of the world, but it would definitively be off. Tony Stark, as a character, wouldn't matter. But, even though it's not impossible, a black guy being the foremost American engineer and industrialist, with the US military, during WWII seems sort of odd (Howard Stark, his dad).

And Superman.. Let's not even discuss it.

 

[NathLines]

Comic movies aren't canon anyway, so I don't see the problem. If they think that the movies will be better with this guy as the Human Torch, then go for it.

Though, as I fan, I wonder if they'll make Susan black as well or if they won't be siblings in this reboot.

 

[xPixelatedx]

The difference is, the superhero film genre is clogged with so much friggin' whiteness, it's like a minimalist painting.

...Because the medium it's telling stories from is, so it makes sense. I also find it odd when someone makes a live action movie based on an anime and Asians aren't playing the roles. It just looks odd to insert white people everywhere. If someone can't stand a movie being faithful to the source material, then they probably don't like the source material either, and in that case what are they doing watching a movie based on it?

Especially considering that it changes nothing significant about the character.

To be fair, we don't know that yet. Considering how bad Hollywood can be, it just might, especially since Johnny is a "hip youth". Such kinds of characters are often handled poorly by Hollywood, and it's rare to see one in a movie not leaning towards stereotypes of their race/nationality/geographical location. What I am basically saying is we may not get another Nick Fury like everyone is assuming, and this decision may even prove to turn out more racist then an all white cast could have ever been.

 

[Nieroshai]

The problem with this is entirely that an established character is being changed. Johnny Storm is a white male daredevil from Fantastic Four with fire powers, who is brother to Susan Storm, who marries Reed Richards. Now imagine if Black Panther was a white guy, and yet still both Black Panther and king of the fictional African kingdom of Wakanda. If you're going to change a character who's already established, you could just as easily created a new character. The black/hispanic gay Spiderman is not Peter Parker, but a new kid in the suit. Black Nick Fury is from an alternate quantum reality. Damien Wayne is a different Robin from Dick Grayson. John Stewart is a new Green Lantern, not a black Hal Jordan. Think about it.

No, I doubt this is anything but a racial statement. Why did he want THIS part?

 

[The_Echo]

Ever heard of white-washing? Because it's vastly different to having a black guy play the part of one of the millions of white characters who could be any race.

I have heard of white-washing, yes. But I don't think it's OK to change the race of a character (from any race to any race) just to be more PC or ethnically diverse.

It's a question of accuracy more than anything, really. For example, I'm a little irked that Megan Fox will be playing April O'Neil in the Bay Turtles movie, 'cause she's not a redhead. Not that I'll be watching that movie anyway.

If they were replacing Johnny Storm with a new character with the same abilities, I'd be fine with him being black. They did this in Spider-Man with Miles Morales. But Johnny Storm isn't a black man.

Considering the multiverse there could EASILY be a black johnny storm.

Shhhh we're not allowed to mention the Marvel multiverse because it renders all the unhappy nerds' complaints instantly moot. I tried bring it up and got summarily ignored. ;-)

Have they introduced the multiverse in the films yet? If not, we're still dealing with the Earth 616 version of this character, unless explicitly stated otherwise.

 

[Bocaj2000]

This is not about racism. This is about being accurate to the source material.

Aang, Katara, and Sokka aren't white.

Bane isn't British.

Johnny Storm isn't black.

These are not hard things to avoid fucking up.

Also, Famke Janssen had to die her hair red to play Jean grey. So this would would logically...

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Whiteface_(performance)

Yeah...fuck no.

Does it really matter?

It's not about what they are in the comics if it doesn't affect the story. Does Hamlet's accent affect the play? No. Does the Green Lantern's ethnicity affect the story? No. Does the Silver Surfer's gender affect the story? No. Does Spiderman's suit design affect the story? Sometimes.

ON THE OTHER HAND:
Does Green Arrow's weapon of choice matter? Yes.
Does Wonder Woman's gender matter? Yes.
Is the Hulk's body type important? Yes.

Choose your battles; not everything is important...

 

[La Kias]

This goes the other way too, it would be like casting Nicholas Cage as the lead in a film about Martin Luther King Jnr. Ok, sure Nick Cage might think he'd be up for it but you can hear the outcry now.

Yh but Human torch is a FICTIONAL character which can be rewritten however they want, whereas Martin Luther King was a real person, so of course people will get mad if a new biographical film he was portrayed as a white guy. Poor choice of comparison

that's the thing, if I wrote a film and MLK jnr, although based upon a real person he is a fictional character in the movie, this is true for all bio-pics. And first thing I could think of, been racking my brain for a well-known black character. Ok, Blade, it would be like making Blade white, or Black Panther. Wait I got it, It would be like making Storm white

 

[chainer1216]

Heimdall was the best part of Thor, he's the only character that FELT like a god to me, and i hope he has a much larger role in the next movie.

that being said johnny storm played by a black actor would be awful. i admit i am a stickler for keeping characters as close the the original as possible for these movies, and that i believe that making Johnny black would fuck up continuity way too much unless they make sue black too, but this is the smallest part of my issue with it.

My REAL problem is with johnny storms character himself. he's an asshole, he thinks he's the *ahem* hottest shit there is. now take into account that this would be a big budget film that would be written to appeal to as large an audience as possible. he's going to be made into a black caricature. its going to be Kanye West with fire powers. they are going to point out and poke fun at the fact that now he's a black guy, so what originally just stinks of, at worst, a publicity stunt, or at best a weak attempt at inclusion due the comic industry's lack of black characters that aren't themselves caricatures, will turn out the be more racist. don't believe me that it'd turn out like that? think very hard about how FOX would portray Johnny's and Ben Grimm's bromance. i'd MUCH prefer Reed Richards be portrayed by a black actor, atleast he pretty much cant be written as a Wayans brother.

in conclusion, just make a fucking Heroes For Hire movie already! (please note that this has nothing to do with my above statement, but rather that i reminded myself about the need for it to happen.)

 

[nexus]

Please.

It's not racist.

Whenever a white man plays an "ethnic" role, the politically correct brigade loses their insane minds. So sick of this. People need to grow up. I know, let's make Superman a Palestinian, because it doesn't matter, right guys?

Batman is going to be Mexican in the next film.

If you have a problem with that, then you're just a privileged white racist.

 

[LegendofHugh]

I don't mind Johnny being black, so long as he does a good job. The only thing he really has to do is be an arrogant show-off, and you can find those in any race.

The Sam Jackson-Nick Fury example people keep using in defence of the race-change is however a bit of a different case. People at Marvel asked to use Jackson's likeness as Ultimate Nick Fury and he agreed if he got to play him in movies, so that one was set in stone before the films were even made.

Some characters are simply easier to change than others. It'd be very difficult to sell the image of a Superman who was anything less than a handsome, strong, "perfect" white man, because he's pretty much supposed to be Jesus (Which makes me wonder why he doesn't look Israeli).