So apparently JonTron is a racist

[Secondhand Revenant]

Do you happen to believe if someone magically never says anything explicit that they're not racist? I understand it if your view is 'Don't rock the boat, let's play ostrich as much as possible', but really.

Racism is a pretty serious accusation. So yes, if you want anyone to take it seriously, you'll actually have to support you claim.

No, it isn't a serious accusation. That's a fairly silly view to take. It does not in fact take all too much for someone to hold a prejudiced view.



For all the rest I think you're ignoring the context but that'll take listening to it again to find the context, and it's a bit late for that right at the moment. Was gonna reply, but it's 2 hours and it's 1:30 AM.

 

[Fox12]

No, it isn't a serious accusation. That's a fairly silly view to take. It does not in fact take all too much for someone to hold a prejudiced view.

Well, perhaps you don't take racism seriously, but I do. And falsely accusing someone of it can ruin their reputation and livelihood. The things you say actually do have consequences.

For all the rest I think you're ignoring the context but that'll take listening to it again to find the context, and it's a bit late for that right at the moment. Was gonna reply, but it's 2 hours and it's 1:30 AM.

Given that I listened to both the debate, and some of the discussions leading to the debate, I think I get the context fine. Again, I don't agree with Jon Trons stupid conclusions, but I have yet to see a damning example of racism. Hanlon's razor.

 

[Secondhand Revenant]

No, it isn't a serious accusation. That's a fairly silly view to take. It does not in fact take all too much for someone to hold a prejudiced view.

Well, perhaps you don't take racism seriously, but I do. And falsely accusing someone of it can ruin their reputation and livelihood. The things you say actually do have consequences.

Taking it seriously doesn't mean it's a serious accusation. The severity of potential consequences also doesn't change the bar for what's racist.

For all the rest I think you're ignoring the context but that'll take listening to it again to find the context, and it's a bit late for that right at the moment. Was gonna reply, but it's 2 hours and it's 1:30 AM.

Given that I listened to both the debate, and some of the discussions leading to the debate, I think I get the context fine. Again, I don't agree with Jon Trons stupid conclusions, but I have yet to see a damning example of racism. Hanlon's razor.

I don't think your idea of what he was saying fully conveys or fits the things he said around those parts in question. Which I'm not gonna look up tonight, but will later

 

[Falling_v1legacy]

Well, whatever he is, Jon is really, really bad at arguing. He is completely unable to sustain any one point by providing rationale or evidence but instead leaps around from topic to topic like a conspiracy theorists. I'm halfway through and Destiny still can't pin down what Jon actually means because the guy just hops topics. So bad. His best method of 'arguing' is to laugh dismissively at Destiny's supposed naivete as though his point was self-evident and that any disagreement is simply absurd.

 

[Karadalis]

Everybody who is "white" nowadays is being called a racist...

Especially by "progressive" racists...

So you have actual racists who excesively use identity politics (wich is a nicer word for a mix of racism/marxism) to segregate people into "safe spaces" use the racist card to shut up those who dont agree with them.

First everyone who disagreed was a mysoginist shitlord, then they where gamergaters, then they where alt rights, then they where nazis.. i wonder what people who disagree with the "progressive" groupthink will be called next week?

But hey... pepe is a nazi meme so why not have a racist jontron eh?

 

[Vigormortis]

I wouldn't be surprised to find out JonTron watches Fox News and Breitbart religiously

Well, he has been interviewed by Breitbart.

Sure, but there's a difference between being interviewed by and getting your 'facts' from.

I fear JonTron has done both...

 

[Erttheking]

Everybody who is "white" nowadays is being called a racist...

Especially by "progressive" racists...

So you have actual racists who excesively use identity politics (wich is a nicer word for a mix of racism/marxism) to segregate people into "safe spaces" use the racist card to shut up those who dont agree with them.

First everyone who disagreed was a mysoginist shitlord, then they where gamergaters, then they where alt rights, then they where nazis.. i wonder what people who disagree with the "progressive" groupthink will be called next week?

But hey... pepe is a nazi meme so why not have a racist jontron eh?

Oh yes, I remember all the times I was called racist for being white. All zero of them.

Also, segregate people into safe places? I'm sorry, that reflects a severe lack of understanding on how safe spaces work. Namely that they don't exist outside of college for starters. To be frank, that sentence seemed like you were trying to cram in as many anti-left criticisms as possible regardless of if they flowed together or not. They really don't. This vague group of people you're talking about are racist, Marxists, and segregationists? I'm sorry, do I even need to point out how little sense that makes? Can you give me an example of the racist, Marxist, segregationists?

Oh yes, everyone was those things...except they weren't. At all. Like, not even close.

JonTron is getting called a racist because he said uninformed comments about black people that paints them as being more prone to breaking the law, even though people in this thread have regularly failed to provide sources to back it up. So until that changes, that comment in the eyes of everyone else will be baseless, uninformed, and very, very, fucking racist.

If you don't want to get called a racist, don't say racist things. It's as simple as that.

 

[maninahat]

Everybody who is "white" nowadays is being called a racist...

Especially by "progressive" racists...

So you have actual racists who excesively use identity politics (wich is a nicer word for a mix of racism/marxism) to segregate people into "safe spaces" use the racist card to shut up those who dont agree with them.

First everyone who disagreed was a mysoginist shitlord, then they where gamergaters, then they where alt rights, then they where nazis.. i wonder what people who disagree with the "progressive" groupthink will be called next week?

But hey... pepe is a nazi meme so why not have a racist jontron eh?

Well thank goodness you haven't joined in throwing around labels.

 

[Cowabungaa]

I'm sorry, that reflects a severe lack of understanding on how safe spaces work. Namely that they don't exist outside of college for starters.

Well, they do. And even more; they've been taken seriously for decades. Alcoholics Anonymous? Safe space. Rape survivors support group? Safe space. A school counsellor? Safe space. Etc, etc, etc.

But now some college kids are taking it really far and all of a sudden the entire concept of 'safe space' gets reviled and should be thrown out and such. Christ the over-reaction of some people...

 

[Erttheking]

I'm sorry, that reflects a severe lack of understanding on how safe spaces work. Namely that they don't exist outside of college for starters.

Well, they do. And even more; they've been taken seriously for decades. Alcoholics Anonymous? Safe space. Rape survivors support group? Safe space. A school counsellor? Safe space. Etc, etc, etc.

But now some college kids are taking it really far and all of a sudden the entire concept of 'safe space' gets reviled and should be thrown out and such. Christ the over-reaction of some people...

Yeah...I don't see how any of those are related to segregation or the race card.

Didn't even think of it that way, thank you for pointing it out.

 

[Cowabungaa]

Yeah...I don't see how any of those are related to segregation or the race card.

Didn't even think of it that way, thank you for pointing it out.

Oh it doesn't. Just, yeah, wanted to point that out for a bit. There's too much hate against 'safe space' as is so I like the clear it up a little. You're welcome.

But honestly I wonder why this topic is even still going (I mean I don't really wonder because it's obvious, but y'know). JonTron echoed racial views supported by the KKK (talking about the Steve King - KKK thing here). He pretends oppression of coloured people in the US doesn't exist any more. Like, how is his racism still in question? Sure that can come from ignorance, but that doesn't make it any less racist. Do you get why people keep defending him? I sure don't.

 

[Erttheking]

Yeah...I don't see how any of those are related to segregation or the race card.

Didn't even think of it that way, thank you for pointing it out.

Oh it doesn't. Just, yeah, wanted to point that out for a bit. There's too much hate against 'safe space' as is so I like the clear it up a little. You're welcome.

But honestly I wonder why this topic is even still going (I mean I don't really wonder because it's obvious, but y'know). JonTron echoed racial views supported by the KKK (talking about the Steve King - KKK thing here). He pretends oppression of coloured people in the US doesn't exist any more. Like, how is his racism still in question? Sure that can come from ignorance, but that doesn't make it any less racist. Do you get why people keep defending him? I sure don't.

I can think of some reasons off of the top of my head.

#1. Some people simplify racism down to thinking non-white people are sub-human, and any racist viewpoints more mild than that aren't really racist.

#2. Good old political trenching. Defend everything the person on your side agrees because he's under assault by "the enemy."

#3. Fans of a person don't want to admit that person's flaws.

#4. People who defend him agree with him and think that people who disagree with him are attacking him for disagreeing with their political views (a fusion of #1 and #2)

 

[BrawlMan]

Yeah...I don't see how any of those are related to segregation or the race card.

Didn't even think of it that way, thank you for pointing it out.

Oh it doesn't. Just, yeah, wanted to point that out for a bit. There's too much hate against 'safe space' as is so I like the clear it up a little. You're welcome.

But honestly I wonder why this topic is even still going (I mean I don't really wonder because it's obvious, but y'know). JonTron echoed racial views supported by the KKK (talking about the Steve King - KKK thing here). He pretends oppression of coloured people in the US doesn't exist any more. Like, how is his racism still in question? Sure that can come from ignorance, but that doesn't make it any less racist. Do you get why people keep defending him? I sure don't.

I can think of some reasons off of the top of my head.

#1. Some people simplify racism down to thinking non-white people are sub-human, and any racist viewpoints more mild than that aren't really racist.

#2. Good old political trenching. Defend everything the person on your side agrees because he's under assault by "the enemy."

#3. Fans of a person don't want to admit that person's flaws.

#4. People who defend him agree with him and think that people who disagree with him are attacking him for disagreeing with their political views (a fusion of #1 and #2)

I was surprised to hear about Jon's views, and he comes off as an ignorant asshole after seeing that. I've seen people say that Arin and Danny dodge a bullet by not being around him anymore, but Arin and Jon split for different reasons. And Arin and Danny are still incompetent boobs who don't bother to pay attention to what they are doing and have the gall to blame the game most of the time. The duo has done some shady shit too, They may not be racist, but Arin and Danny, more so the former, act like jackasses.

I never kept up with Jon's video constantly as I was not a huge fan, yet I did have respect for him. After this, I want nothing to do with the *****. What is with these YouTube or Internet "celebrities" having good things going and then acting like major assholes? If it's not racism, it's them thinking they're the best thing since sliced bread and insulting anyone that dares have an opinion different from theirs. Angry Joe, Spoony, Nostalgia Critic (in fact, most of the Channel Awesome staff), Movie Bob, and a few other became or already were such jerks that makes you wonder why people still watch their content or continue to follow them. The ones I mention don't have bigoted views like Jon, but they're all guilty of outlandish things, drawing straws, or just plain ignorant narrow minded views themselves.

 

[Strazdas]

This is some thread you got here. When Saelune gets to be the voice of reason i think people are really trying to hunt for demons that dont exist. I have not seen the debate (nor i have interest in doing so, i dont follow his content) but the quotes given in OP are not racist, they are either a factual observation (such as crimerate) or his opinion, such as him not remmebering Trump saying anything racist. He may simply not remmeber the mexican judge incident and in this case what he siad is correct - he does not remmeber anything trump said thats racist. Shit, you people got me to defend trump again. fucking hell.

Dont backhand compliment me just yet. I am a fan who wants to believe Jon is a good person and that there is no way this is true. I am biased in favor of Jon, where as if this was someone I did not care for, it would be easier for me to presume they really are racist and move on without more context.

I didnt compliment you because you want to defend him, i complimented you because you wanted to find out his actual views, in context, instead of going by cherrypicked quotes. Whether it was your bias that got you to seek truth or not doesnt really matter.

I mean, really, the interview with Breitbart should've been a pretty big red flag to most people.

being interviewed by newspaper you dont like = racist. Got it.

First of all the "wealthy blacks commit more crimes than poor whites" claim is, under the most charitable interpretation, questionable. Second of all if poverty and law enforcement have no influence on the disproportionate crime statistics (as Jon claims), what is the explanation for the discrepancy? Jon was extremely evasive when it came to this and my worry is that he actually thinks that there is a genetic component which is by definition racist.

May i propose the component is cultural, as in some cultures are more likely to have higher crime rate than others? Or are you going to deny that black people in US have a culture?

Not really, because that's immoral as many people from 'Muslim countries', which is a bloody vague thing to say for many countries anyway, genuinely need help.

They do need help. The help is making their government secular. US tried to do that in a few of those countries, got called war criminals.

Do you have any evidence whatsoever that aggression and criminality are genetic traits predominantly seen in those of African descent?

I dont know about humans, but i do know that dogs are specifically bred genetically for aggression for the purpose of dog fighting and, as a result, we have created new species of dogs that are unnaturally aggressive and unpredictable.

Dogs have been selectively bred by humans though... big difference there.

Not really, no. If we assume that human genetics allow aggression the same way dog genetics do, then any period of time where aggression would net higher chance of reproduction would increase aggression levels of general population from natural selection, without outside interference.

There aren't particularly large numbers of Muslims emigrating to Europe either, but don't let that stop you.

I think over 2% of population in less than 1 year is enough to be classified as particularly large.

 

[Cowabungaa]

They do need help. The help is making their government secular. US tried to do that in a few of those countries, got called war criminals.

I'd invite you to my classes of Contemporary Middle-Eastern Politics if you'd live near, because that's an incredibly ignorant thing to say. Like, it's wrong on so many levels.

Plus, yeah gee I wonder why they were called war criminals. You'd almost think starting a war that's against international law, kills untold civilians, throws a country into absolute disarray, gets used as a profit machine for military contractors and leaves fertile ground for extremist terror groups to grow is frowned upon.

I wonder why?

I wonder why???

The duo has done some shady shit too, They may not be racist, but Arin and Danny, more so the former, act like jackasses.

I'm not sure "being bad at videogames" counts as shady. Like, at all.

 

[Strazdas]

They do need help. The help is making their government secular. US tried to do that in a few of those countries, got called war criminals.

I'd invite you to my classes of Contemporary Middle-Eastern Politics if you'd live near, because that's an incredibly ignorant thing to say. Like, it's wrong on so many levels.

Plus, yeah gee I wonder why they were called war criminals. You'd almost think starting a war that's against international law, kills untold civilians, throws a country into absolute disarray, gets used as a profit machine for military contractors and leaves fertile ground for extremist terror groups to grow is frowned upon.

I wonder why?

I wonder why???

The duo has done some shady shit too, They may not be racist, but Arin and Danny, more so the former, act like jackasses.

I'm not sure "being bad at videogames" counts as shady. Like, at all.

The internet is a magical palce where distance boundaries dissapear with instantly communication!

And yes, my response was extremely oversimplified. It wasnt meant to be a nuance explanation how to save those countries, but the point that we need to fix those countries rather than moving the problem to the rest of the world.

 

[Bob_McMillan]

Two days, and this thread is already at 8 pages. Of course.

 

[Cowabungaa]

And yes, my response was extremely oversimplified. It wasnt meant to be a nuance explanation how to save those countries, but the point that we need to fix those countries rather than moving the problem to the rest of the world.

Not only did it lack nuance, it was also flat-out wrong. They only invaded two countries and one of those had a secular government, Iraq, and the other's religious leaders they actually supported in the Cold War. Speaking of supporting authoritarian and sometimes very Islamic regimes? 'Member when the US did that a whole lot during the Cold War? I 'member.

Next to that, as a solution it's also completely irrelevant for the Muslim populations that have been living in Western nations for decades. From which, shockingly, most Islamic terrorists that strike in the West actually hail.

 

[Strazdas]

And yes, my response was extremely oversimplified. It wasnt meant to be a nuance explanation how to save those countries, but the point that we need to fix those countries rather than moving the problem to the rest of the world.

Not only did it lack nuance, it was also flat-out wrong. They only invaded two countries and one of those had a secular government, Iraq, and the other's religious leaders they actually supported in the Cold War. Speaking of supporting authoritarian and sometimes very Islamic regimes? 'Member when the US did that a whole lot during the Cold War? I 'member.

Next to that, as a solution it's also completely irrelevant for the Muslim populations that have been living in Western nations for decades. From which, shockingly, most Islamic terrorists that strike in the West actually hail.

Yeah, US did a lot of bad things during cold war, im sure pepperidge farm remmebers.

So what your saying is it is not so much muslim leadership a problem as the religion itself?

 

[Cowabungaa]

Yeah, US did a lot of bad things during cold war, im sure pepperidge farm remmebers.

So what your saying is it is not so much muslim leadership a problem as the religion itself?

I'll refer to the first post you quoted of mine regarding what the problem is. You know damn well what I was saying.